<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>akudha</author><text>I have a beefy machine and fast internet. Yet, JIRA is annoyingly slow. Half the time, pages on my bank’s website take forever to load, or don’t load at all.&lt;p&gt;I don’t have any numbers, just some anecdotal experience like the above.&lt;p&gt;It is not just speed. The UI of many sites suck too. Amazon, GoDaddy, for example.&lt;p&gt;Then there are ads. We don’t see ads in between content anymore. It is content within ads these days.&lt;p&gt;I am thankful that we can do so much online these days. But the experience could be better</text><parent_chain><item><author>codeptualize</author><text>&amp;gt; the modern webapp experience is so miserable for the average person.&lt;p&gt;I see this claim a lot and I&amp;#x27;m curious what this is based on, can somebody drop some links to further reading?</text></item><item><author>thegeomaster</author><text>How is performance not important in this context?&lt;p&gt;React is very sluggish when updating many elements at once, for not very large values of &amp;quot;many&amp;quot;. With some regularity, I&amp;#x27;ve debugged React+MobX jank issues where a bigger update, such as switching from one panel to another, takes upwards of 200ms on a mid- or low-range machine.&lt;p&gt;None of this is perceptible on our beefy dev boxes, which is why I think people disregard it, and why the modern webapp experience is so miserable for the average person.</text></item><item><author>Illniyar</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m still a React guy. I&amp;#x27;ve also worked with Angular and Vue and toyed with Svelte.&lt;p&gt;People tend to compare these frameworks on things that don&amp;#x27;t matter - often it&amp;#x27;s performance. We used to compare React performance to AngularJs performance too, which was meaningless.&lt;p&gt;VDom is nice. Reactivity in signals is nice. Limiting rerenders is nice. But I choose frameworks because of developer ergonomics.&lt;p&gt;The killer feature for React was - 1. JSX - typing and auto-complete for components, colocation. 2. No direct dom access. (Good bye $element)&lt;p&gt;Most frameworks outside react still use templates. Even when they support JSX like syntax (aka vue 2.0) the default are templates. Templates are a no go for me. I use them for blogs or static websites, but applications are easier to make and maintain with actual javascript.&lt;p&gt;Luckily none of the other frameworks, even Angular, have rampant direct dom access anymore.&lt;p&gt;Hooks aren&amp;#x27;t a problem in general. It&amp;#x27;s just the useEffect hook. Unfortunately that&amp;#x27;s a big problem. That hook should never have existed. And it was clear from the start it&amp;#x27;ll be a pain from the limitations around it. It requires a mental model detached from everything people are used to and from other things around it.&lt;p&gt;When using React I usually just use MobX and everything just works.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>React is holding me hostage</title><url>https://emnudge.dev/blog/react-hostage</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>unxdfa</author><text>Try selling React shit to corporates who have corporate malware infested Edge running on overloaded Citrix nodes or the average corporate android that was made about 3 years ago.&lt;p&gt;We still get &amp;lt;100ms page delivery with server side rendering and lightweight JavaScript DOM overlays. Our React infested competitors, not so much to the point their clients have been shitposting on twitter about it.&lt;p&gt;And we actually can debug our product!</text><parent_chain><item><author>codeptualize</author><text>&amp;gt; the modern webapp experience is so miserable for the average person.&lt;p&gt;I see this claim a lot and I&amp;#x27;m curious what this is based on, can somebody drop some links to further reading?</text></item><item><author>thegeomaster</author><text>How is performance not important in this context?&lt;p&gt;React is very sluggish when updating many elements at once, for not very large values of &amp;quot;many&amp;quot;. With some regularity, I&amp;#x27;ve debugged React+MobX jank issues where a bigger update, such as switching from one panel to another, takes upwards of 200ms on a mid- or low-range machine.&lt;p&gt;None of this is perceptible on our beefy dev boxes, which is why I think people disregard it, and why the modern webapp experience is so miserable for the average person.</text></item><item><author>Illniyar</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m still a React guy. I&amp;#x27;ve also worked with Angular and Vue and toyed with Svelte.&lt;p&gt;People tend to compare these frameworks on things that don&amp;#x27;t matter - often it&amp;#x27;s performance. We used to compare React performance to AngularJs performance too, which was meaningless.&lt;p&gt;VDom is nice. Reactivity in signals is nice. Limiting rerenders is nice. But I choose frameworks because of developer ergonomics.&lt;p&gt;The killer feature for React was - 1. JSX - typing and auto-complete for components, colocation. 2. No direct dom access. (Good bye $element)&lt;p&gt;Most frameworks outside react still use templates. Even when they support JSX like syntax (aka vue 2.0) the default are templates. Templates are a no go for me. I use them for blogs or static websites, but applications are easier to make and maintain with actual javascript.&lt;p&gt;Luckily none of the other frameworks, even Angular, have rampant direct dom access anymore.&lt;p&gt;Hooks aren&amp;#x27;t a problem in general. It&amp;#x27;s just the useEffect hook. Unfortunately that&amp;#x27;s a big problem. That hook should never have existed. And it was clear from the start it&amp;#x27;ll be a pain from the limitations around it. It requires a mental model detached from everything people are used to and from other things around it.&lt;p&gt;When using React I usually just use MobX and everything just works.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>React is holding me hostage</title><url>https://emnudge.dev/blog/react-hostage</url></story>