<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>dkarl</author><text>&amp;gt;  My theory is that most folks these days learned to type on membrane keyboards where you have to bottom out the keys (often with quite a lot of force, if the keyboard is old)&lt;p&gt;I hate this.  It&amp;#x27;s uncomfortable.  If you aren&amp;#x27;t old enough to have used a good laptop  before laptops could be thinner than two inches, you can think of modern laptop keyboards as the 21st century equivalent of a girdle.  You give up a certain amount of comfort, but hey, at least you look sexy.&lt;p&gt;I guess we won&amp;#x27;t have comfortable laptop keyboards again until the electronics and battery are small enough to fit entirely under the palm rests and trackpad.</text><parent_chain><item><author>mewse</author><text>&amp;gt; They can be loud, depending on the switches you get.&lt;p&gt;It’s worth noting that for folks who don’t know proper typing technique (which is probably nearly everybody under the age of 40, as nobody really teaches it any more, at least in the countries where I’ve lived) it almost doesn’t matter what sort of mechanical switch you’re using, in terms of noise.&lt;p&gt;In my experience, the majority of mechanical keyboard noise for most folks doesn’t actually come from the switches at all;  it comes from the keys noisily bottoming out on each keystroke.&lt;p&gt;My theory is that most folks these days learned to type on membrane keyboards where you have to bottom out the keys (often with quite a lot of force, if the keyboard is old), or else on a laptop’s scissor switches where you can’t avoid bottoming out due to the extremely short throw, and so everyone’s just typing with much more force than necessary and driving the keys all the way down to the backplate on every press because that’s what they had to do with the keyboards they learned on.&lt;p&gt;Which of course makes typing far less pleasant, and also much noisier!  The complaints are totally understandable, from that perspective.&lt;p&gt;This also links into the “Massive travel time” comment;  most folks push the keys &lt;i&gt;much&lt;/i&gt; too far down while typing on mechanical keyboards!&lt;p&gt;Cherry MX Blue switches (as one example) actuate at 2mm, which is almost &lt;i&gt;exactly&lt;/i&gt; the same distance as most (non-Apple) laptop scissor switches.  The &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; reason that a mechanical keyboard would have “massive travel time” compared to a laptop keyboard is if you’re needlessly pushing the keys all the way down, when you actually only need a gentle tap on them.</text></item><item><author>schwartzworld</author><text>I probably don&amp;#x27;t speak for everybody, but I can try to speak to your points above:&lt;p&gt;- They are loud&lt;p&gt;They can be loud, depending on the switches you get. However, some people feel that they benefit from it. The loud clicks are satisfying in some way. Maybe it&amp;#x27;s an ASMR thing for some people. For me, the sound feels like feedback.&lt;p&gt;- They are expensive&lt;p&gt;They can be. But so can regular keyboards. My first mechanical was like $40.&lt;p&gt;- The keys are massive and ugly&lt;p&gt;Unless you put low profile switches on your keyboard&lt;p&gt;- Massive travel time (So slow to type on)&lt;p&gt;Unless you put fast switches on your keyboard. The clickiest keys tend to be the slowest, but I don&amp;#x27;t type more than 80 words per minute anyway, and when I&amp;#x27;m coding a lot less than that. But you can definitely get faster switches.&lt;p&gt;Here&amp;#x27;s another reason: it&amp;#x27;s fun. It&amp;#x27;s just fun. Sure maybe it&amp;#x27;s just cosplaying as a hacker, but it&amp;#x27;s still fun.&lt;p&gt;And most mechanicals can be remapped really easily, to allow custom workflows. Or layers. What I may potentially lose in words per minute, I gain by creating an intuitive key map that lets me reach the keys that I actually need day to day.</text></item><item><author>executesorder66</author><text>So I&amp;#x27;m not alone. I really can&amp;#x27;t understand the appeal of a mechanical keyboard.&lt;p&gt;- They are loud&lt;p&gt;- They are expensive&lt;p&gt;- The keys are massive and ugly&lt;p&gt;- Massive travel time (So slow to type on)&lt;p&gt;Sure they are a bit more customizable, but is that really worth all the drawbacks? Especially the worse typing, which is the main point of a keyboard.&lt;p&gt;If you are a mechanical keyboard fanatic, and my comment angered you, please know that was not my intention. I really don&amp;#x27;t see the appeal, and I haven&amp;#x27;t been able to find any advantages (mentioned online or by asking friends that have them). I would love it if someone could explain to me what the actual advantages are, and&amp;#x2F;or why I am wrong on any of the points I mentioned.</text></item><item><author>skocznymroczny</author><text>I think a lot of the hype around mechanical keyboards in general is overblown. I had a period of transitioning to mechanical keyboards. I couldn&amp;#x27;t get used to the high-rise keys and long travel times which made my wrists hurt and made typing a chore. I kept convincing myself that I just had the wrong type of switch, so I changed keyboards every few months seeking that perfect feeling. The closest I got was low-profile blue switches, those were actually fun and something I could use for a daily driver. In the end however, I went back to a chiclet keyboard. It&amp;#x27;s quiet, travel time is short and I can type on it comfortable for long periods of time.</text></item><item><author>formerly_proven</author><text>The IBM Model M hype is absurdly overblown. Anyone who has used decent mechanical keyboards should be able to pretty much immediately notice just how cost-reduced that keyboard is. It is quite literally the cheapest buckling spring keyboard IBM managed to make in &amp;#x27;89, and it shows. Cherry boards are often bashed for their flexing and wobbly cases, but the IBM Model M is hardly better with the top and lower parts of the clamshell having significant play. The Model M is a pure membrane keyboard, and thus limited to 2KRO. The Model M has no replaceable parts.&lt;p&gt;Why is it a membrane keyboard, when previous models were not? &lt;i&gt;Because it is much cheaper to make&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;Why does the Model M has only loosely fitting case parts? &lt;i&gt;Because it is much cheaper to make&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;Why does the Model M has plastic rivets that hold the membrane stackup together which always break off due to ageing and bad design after 20 years or so? &lt;i&gt;Because it is much cheaper to make&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;Why does the Model M have a single-piece barrel plate with barrels that occasionally break off, rendering the entire keyboard garbage? &lt;i&gt;Because it is much cheaper to make&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;Why does the Model M have essentially zero spill resistance? &lt;i&gt;Because the cheap design doesn&amp;#x27;t permit spill resistance&lt;/i&gt;. When you spill water on an M, expect to either have it dry for weeks or months as the water evaporates from between the membranes, or to disassemble it. If it wasn&amp;#x27;t pure mountain spring water, &lt;i&gt;you have to disassemble it&lt;/i&gt;, which--due to plastic rivets-- is a destructive proecss. To reassemble it, you have to drill a bunch of new holes through the actual keyboard parts to put screws in.&lt;p&gt;Yet despite these significant design and longevity issues the M somehow got a legendary reputation for being &amp;quot;solid&amp;quot;... it really isn&amp;#x27;t.&lt;p&gt;Go look at Model F reproductions. &lt;i&gt;Those&lt;/i&gt; are solid keyboards. &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.modelfkeyboards.com&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.modelfkeyboards.com&amp;#x2F;&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard That Puts a Spring Back in Your Typing</title><url>https://tidbits.com/2021/02/17/new-model-m-is-an-american-made-keyboard-that-puts-a-spring-back-in-your-typing/</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>cbm-vic-20</author><text>Agree.   Older-than-40 here, I learned to type primarily on electric typewriters and old-school terminal keyboards, where the switches would trigger around half-way down the travel of the key.  When I use a mechanical keyboard, I do the same- the Cherry MX Clear switches in my keyboard act in a similar way- you don&amp;#x27;t need to &amp;quot;bottom out&amp;quot; a switch for it to activate.&lt;p&gt;Manual typewriters, though, had a &amp;#x2F;huge&amp;#x2F; amount of travel, and since the travel provides the force to strike the type on to the paper, you really had to hammer on them.</text><parent_chain><item><author>mewse</author><text>&amp;gt; They can be loud, depending on the switches you get.&lt;p&gt;It’s worth noting that for folks who don’t know proper typing technique (which is probably nearly everybody under the age of 40, as nobody really teaches it any more, at least in the countries where I’ve lived) it almost doesn’t matter what sort of mechanical switch you’re using, in terms of noise.&lt;p&gt;In my experience, the majority of mechanical keyboard noise for most folks doesn’t actually come from the switches at all;  it comes from the keys noisily bottoming out on each keystroke.&lt;p&gt;My theory is that most folks these days learned to type on membrane keyboards where you have to bottom out the keys (often with quite a lot of force, if the keyboard is old), or else on a laptop’s scissor switches where you can’t avoid bottoming out due to the extremely short throw, and so everyone’s just typing with much more force than necessary and driving the keys all the way down to the backplate on every press because that’s what they had to do with the keyboards they learned on.&lt;p&gt;Which of course makes typing far less pleasant, and also much noisier!  The complaints are totally understandable, from that perspective.&lt;p&gt;This also links into the “Massive travel time” comment;  most folks push the keys &lt;i&gt;much&lt;/i&gt; too far down while typing on mechanical keyboards!&lt;p&gt;Cherry MX Blue switches (as one example) actuate at 2mm, which is almost &lt;i&gt;exactly&lt;/i&gt; the same distance as most (non-Apple) laptop scissor switches.  The &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; reason that a mechanical keyboard would have “massive travel time” compared to a laptop keyboard is if you’re needlessly pushing the keys all the way down, when you actually only need a gentle tap on them.</text></item><item><author>schwartzworld</author><text>I probably don&amp;#x27;t speak for everybody, but I can try to speak to your points above:&lt;p&gt;- They are loud&lt;p&gt;They can be loud, depending on the switches you get. However, some people feel that they benefit from it. The loud clicks are satisfying in some way. Maybe it&amp;#x27;s an ASMR thing for some people. For me, the sound feels like feedback.&lt;p&gt;- They are expensive&lt;p&gt;They can be. But so can regular keyboards. My first mechanical was like $40.&lt;p&gt;- The keys are massive and ugly&lt;p&gt;Unless you put low profile switches on your keyboard&lt;p&gt;- Massive travel time (So slow to type on)&lt;p&gt;Unless you put fast switches on your keyboard. The clickiest keys tend to be the slowest, but I don&amp;#x27;t type more than 80 words per minute anyway, and when I&amp;#x27;m coding a lot less than that. But you can definitely get faster switches.&lt;p&gt;Here&amp;#x27;s another reason: it&amp;#x27;s fun. It&amp;#x27;s just fun. Sure maybe it&amp;#x27;s just cosplaying as a hacker, but it&amp;#x27;s still fun.&lt;p&gt;And most mechanicals can be remapped really easily, to allow custom workflows. Or layers. What I may potentially lose in words per minute, I gain by creating an intuitive key map that lets me reach the keys that I actually need day to day.</text></item><item><author>executesorder66</author><text>So I&amp;#x27;m not alone. I really can&amp;#x27;t understand the appeal of a mechanical keyboard.&lt;p&gt;- They are loud&lt;p&gt;- They are expensive&lt;p&gt;- The keys are massive and ugly&lt;p&gt;- Massive travel time (So slow to type on)&lt;p&gt;Sure they are a bit more customizable, but is that really worth all the drawbacks? Especially the worse typing, which is the main point of a keyboard.&lt;p&gt;If you are a mechanical keyboard fanatic, and my comment angered you, please know that was not my intention. I really don&amp;#x27;t see the appeal, and I haven&amp;#x27;t been able to find any advantages (mentioned online or by asking friends that have them). I would love it if someone could explain to me what the actual advantages are, and&amp;#x2F;or why I am wrong on any of the points I mentioned.</text></item><item><author>skocznymroczny</author><text>I think a lot of the hype around mechanical keyboards in general is overblown. I had a period of transitioning to mechanical keyboards. I couldn&amp;#x27;t get used to the high-rise keys and long travel times which made my wrists hurt and made typing a chore. I kept convincing myself that I just had the wrong type of switch, so I changed keyboards every few months seeking that perfect feeling. The closest I got was low-profile blue switches, those were actually fun and something I could use for a daily driver. In the end however, I went back to a chiclet keyboard. It&amp;#x27;s quiet, travel time is short and I can type on it comfortable for long periods of time.</text></item><item><author>formerly_proven</author><text>The IBM Model M hype is absurdly overblown. Anyone who has used decent mechanical keyboards should be able to pretty much immediately notice just how cost-reduced that keyboard is. It is quite literally the cheapest buckling spring keyboard IBM managed to make in &amp;#x27;89, and it shows. Cherry boards are often bashed for their flexing and wobbly cases, but the IBM Model M is hardly better with the top and lower parts of the clamshell having significant play. The Model M is a pure membrane keyboard, and thus limited to 2KRO. The Model M has no replaceable parts.&lt;p&gt;Why is it a membrane keyboard, when previous models were not? &lt;i&gt;Because it is much cheaper to make&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;Why does the Model M has only loosely fitting case parts? &lt;i&gt;Because it is much cheaper to make&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;Why does the Model M has plastic rivets that hold the membrane stackup together which always break off due to ageing and bad design after 20 years or so? &lt;i&gt;Because it is much cheaper to make&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;Why does the Model M have a single-piece barrel plate with barrels that occasionally break off, rendering the entire keyboard garbage? &lt;i&gt;Because it is much cheaper to make&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;Why does the Model M have essentially zero spill resistance? &lt;i&gt;Because the cheap design doesn&amp;#x27;t permit spill resistance&lt;/i&gt;. When you spill water on an M, expect to either have it dry for weeks or months as the water evaporates from between the membranes, or to disassemble it. If it wasn&amp;#x27;t pure mountain spring water, &lt;i&gt;you have to disassemble it&lt;/i&gt;, which--due to plastic rivets-- is a destructive proecss. To reassemble it, you have to drill a bunch of new holes through the actual keyboard parts to put screws in.&lt;p&gt;Yet despite these significant design and longevity issues the M somehow got a legendary reputation for being &amp;quot;solid&amp;quot;... it really isn&amp;#x27;t.&lt;p&gt;Go look at Model F reproductions. &lt;i&gt;Those&lt;/i&gt; are solid keyboards. &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.modelfkeyboards.com&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.modelfkeyboards.com&amp;#x2F;&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard That Puts a Spring Back in Your Typing</title><url>https://tidbits.com/2021/02/17/new-model-m-is-an-american-made-keyboard-that-puts-a-spring-back-in-your-typing/</url></story>