<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>somesortofthing</author><text>Loyalty in general can be thought of as a line of credit for employers and employees to informally &amp;quot;borrow&amp;quot; from each other to smooth things over. Explicitly enumerating &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; of a given job&amp;#x27;s duties in an employment agreement is functionally impossible, and a key part of what people mean by an employee&amp;#x27;s &amp;quot;loyalty&amp;quot; to a company is that willingness to go slightly outside of their expected duties. Meanwhile, a company&amp;#x27;s &amp;quot;loyalty&amp;quot; is willingness to tolerate downturns in returns on a given employee and protect employees&amp;#x27; jobs even when doing so might cost them in the short term. A company&amp;#x27;s &amp;quot;loyalty&amp;quot; might take the form not punishing an employee for being unproductive for some time after a family tragedy or keeping employees on the payroll during an economic downturn even if that might cost them.&lt;p&gt;If you want to completely get rid of that, even the slightest imperfection in designing the bounds of a given employee&amp;#x27;s duties is going to result in whatever processes that person relies for grinding to a halt and everyone being trapped in a constant run-around of &amp;quot;That&amp;#x27;s not my job&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;That said, given that companies have been increasingly unwilling to extend even the most basic loyalty to its employees, the right move for workers is to become more transactional. Normally, the accrued &amp;quot;credit&amp;quot; gained through loyalty might dissuade you from switching jobs even if you get a nominally better offer, but if that&amp;#x27;s no longer a factor, workers have no reason to hesitate about just looking at the bottom line on their employment agreement. This might be damaging to the broader economy since job hopping has considerable productivity costs, but on the individual level, it&amp;#x27;s the clear right choice.</text><parent_chain><item><author>gspencley</author><text>What does it mean to be &amp;quot;loyal to&amp;quot; a company or employee, though?&lt;p&gt;Maybe I&amp;#x27;m just overly cold and &amp;quot;literal&amp;quot;, but an employment agreement is just that: an agreement to exchange value for value. In general, I loathe the idea of an agreement that I can&amp;#x27;t renegotiate. Do I owe my employer something? Yes, to the extent that it is agreed upon contractually. Does my employer owe me something? Same deal.&lt;p&gt;I just don&amp;#x27;t understand what &amp;quot;loyalty&amp;quot; in this context is supposed to look like. If my services are a net disvalue to the company they should continue on as though that&amp;#x27;s not the case? If I&amp;#x27;m unhappy at company or receive a better offer elsewhere, I should continue on despite it not being in my best interest?&lt;p&gt;If that&amp;#x27;s what loyalty is supposed to mean then I don&amp;#x27;t want it either as employee or employer. Let&amp;#x27;s just get an agreement in writing and then take it one day at a time.</text></item><item><author>AlbertCory</author><text>My Dad worked for Swift &amp;amp; Co. for 45 years. Nonetheless, when I quit my first job, he said to me, approvingly, &amp;quot;They&amp;#x27;re not loyal to you, so why should you be loyal to them?&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;There &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; companies loyal to their employees. They tend to be small and family-owned, though, and when the family retires or loses control, the new owners tend to be markedly less loyal.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Loyal to the Company</title><url>https://dilbert.com/strip/2023-02-11</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>lliamander</author><text>&amp;gt; If my services are a net disvalue to the company they should continue on as though that&amp;#x27;s not the case?&lt;p&gt;Loyalty is not about accepting a lower value relationship for the sake of not wanting to change, it is trying to optimize the value of relationships over a longer period of time.  That means, among other things, ongoing investment from both parties to improve the mutual value of the relationship.&lt;p&gt;This applies to all forms of relationships, not just employment.</text><parent_chain><item><author>gspencley</author><text>What does it mean to be &amp;quot;loyal to&amp;quot; a company or employee, though?&lt;p&gt;Maybe I&amp;#x27;m just overly cold and &amp;quot;literal&amp;quot;, but an employment agreement is just that: an agreement to exchange value for value. In general, I loathe the idea of an agreement that I can&amp;#x27;t renegotiate. Do I owe my employer something? Yes, to the extent that it is agreed upon contractually. Does my employer owe me something? Same deal.&lt;p&gt;I just don&amp;#x27;t understand what &amp;quot;loyalty&amp;quot; in this context is supposed to look like. If my services are a net disvalue to the company they should continue on as though that&amp;#x27;s not the case? If I&amp;#x27;m unhappy at company or receive a better offer elsewhere, I should continue on despite it not being in my best interest?&lt;p&gt;If that&amp;#x27;s what loyalty is supposed to mean then I don&amp;#x27;t want it either as employee or employer. Let&amp;#x27;s just get an agreement in writing and then take it one day at a time.</text></item><item><author>AlbertCory</author><text>My Dad worked for Swift &amp;amp; Co. for 45 years. Nonetheless, when I quit my first job, he said to me, approvingly, &amp;quot;They&amp;#x27;re not loyal to you, so why should you be loyal to them?&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;There &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; companies loyal to their employees. They tend to be small and family-owned, though, and when the family retires or loses control, the new owners tend to be markedly less loyal.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Loyal to the Company</title><url>https://dilbert.com/strip/2023-02-11</url></story>