<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>dworin</author><text>Great additional advice, two other thoughts building on it:&lt;p&gt;1) Make sure the client knows that you&amp;#x27;re doing work that&amp;#x27;s out of scope, but that you&amp;#x27;re not charging for.  Otherwise they just think it&amp;#x27;s part of the package, and will expect it next time.  I&amp;#x27;ve seen consultants get upset that clients didn&amp;#x27;t appreciate all the extra work they were doing, when the clients didn&amp;#x27;t even know it was extra.&lt;p&gt;2) Stay firm on your rates, but offer discounts to clients for things that cost them nothing and help your business.  Knock 10% off if they pay up front: it gives you cash in hand, saves you from having to follow up with accounts payable, and makes it harder for them to cancel the project.  Offer a discount as part of a retainer or an ongoing support contract.  Show them where there are opportunities for someone on their team to do the work, rather than engaging you.  If you show them that you&amp;#x27;re a partner in helping them reduce costs, they&amp;#x27;ll value your services more.</text><parent_chain><item><author>leknarf</author><text>Great article overall. I particularly liked the three mistakes you pointed out:&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;I nickled-and-dimed a client on change requests, alienating that client and making myself appear less professional. ...  I would have been better served by her loving me than making a little more money.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;I completely agree. In fact, this is part of the reason new freelancers often regret setting their hourly rate too low. It&amp;#x27;s important that you set a high enough rate that you can throw in unbillable work now and then without destroying your earnings. The best freelancers consistently under-promise and over-deliver.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;For pricing my services, I need to start high and work my way down. I generally start client conversations on my hourly rate at what I would consider a reasonable ultimate number, and then allow myself to be driven down from there — generally because the client wants a long-term contract and expects to save on my hourly based on the length of the engagement.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Constant haggling will make every new project a frustrating experience. I usually recommend setting a fair rate and then holding the line when clients ask for a discount. That&amp;#x27;s tough to do with your first few projects, but becomes easier once you&amp;#x27;re more confident about your rate and abilities.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;More projects, less hourly. When starting as a consultant, I was really selling only my hours. Now Symonds &amp;amp; Son is a business in its own right, and I’ve hired designers and developers to help with my workload. Working with other talented individuals makes much more sense on a project basis, where I can package their (and my) hours together.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;This depends on what type of projects you&amp;#x27;re looking to take on. Landing pages and presentation work will probably pay more if you charge per project (since clients won&amp;#x27;t believe you can more 10x faster than cheaper devs), but building new product features for startups is probably better at an hourly rate (since startup clients always change what they&amp;#x27;re looking to build).&lt;p&gt;If anyone is looking to get started as a freelancer&amp;#x2F;consultant or just looking to expand their existing business, take a look at our startup: &lt;a href=&quot;http://getlambda.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;getlambda.com&lt;/a&gt;.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Rails Consulting for Fun and Profit</title><url>http://joshsymonds.com/blog/2014/01/14/rails-consulting-for-fun-and-profit/</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>mgkimsal</author><text>&amp;gt;  I completely agree. In fact, this is part of the reason new freelancers often regret setting their hourly rate too low. It&amp;#x27;s important that you set a high enough rate that you can throw in unbillable work now and then without destroying your earnings. The best freelancers consistently under-promise and over-deliver.&lt;p&gt;I agree with your agreement, but... it&amp;#x27;s hard for new clients to understand that you will not nickel and dime them.   My rate is rather high for my market, but I do not nickel and dime.  But it takes people a while to learn that, no, I don&amp;#x27;t bill for that 10 minute phone call.  No, I don&amp;#x27;t itemize parking costs when I come to a meeting downtown.  No, I don&amp;#x27;t charge them double time for tackling an emergency on the weekend.&lt;p&gt;And... some times clients end up going with someone else with a &amp;#x27;cheaper&amp;#x27; rate, and I know they end up paying probably just about as much as I&amp;#x27;d be charging them with an hourly or daily rate (I have both, but most people still prefer hourly, and I don&amp;#x27;t turn them down yet because of that).&lt;p&gt;EDIT: &amp;quot;nickel and diming&amp;quot; on things I outlined above I don&amp;#x27;t do.  Full on changes - &amp;quot;we need 3 new forms&amp;quot; - still get charged for.</text><parent_chain><item><author>leknarf</author><text>Great article overall. I particularly liked the three mistakes you pointed out:&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;I nickled-and-dimed a client on change requests, alienating that client and making myself appear less professional. ...  I would have been better served by her loving me than making a little more money.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;I completely agree. In fact, this is part of the reason new freelancers often regret setting their hourly rate too low. It&amp;#x27;s important that you set a high enough rate that you can throw in unbillable work now and then without destroying your earnings. The best freelancers consistently under-promise and over-deliver.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;For pricing my services, I need to start high and work my way down. I generally start client conversations on my hourly rate at what I would consider a reasonable ultimate number, and then allow myself to be driven down from there — generally because the client wants a long-term contract and expects to save on my hourly based on the length of the engagement.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Constant haggling will make every new project a frustrating experience. I usually recommend setting a fair rate and then holding the line when clients ask for a discount. That&amp;#x27;s tough to do with your first few projects, but becomes easier once you&amp;#x27;re more confident about your rate and abilities.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;More projects, less hourly. When starting as a consultant, I was really selling only my hours. Now Symonds &amp;amp; Son is a business in its own right, and I’ve hired designers and developers to help with my workload. Working with other talented individuals makes much more sense on a project basis, where I can package their (and my) hours together.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;This depends on what type of projects you&amp;#x27;re looking to take on. Landing pages and presentation work will probably pay more if you charge per project (since clients won&amp;#x27;t believe you can more 10x faster than cheaper devs), but building new product features for startups is probably better at an hourly rate (since startup clients always change what they&amp;#x27;re looking to build).&lt;p&gt;If anyone is looking to get started as a freelancer&amp;#x2F;consultant or just looking to expand their existing business, take a look at our startup: &lt;a href=&quot;http://getlambda.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;getlambda.com&lt;/a&gt;.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Rails Consulting for Fun and Profit</title><url>http://joshsymonds.com/blog/2014/01/14/rails-consulting-for-fun-and-profit/</url></story>