<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>Phiwise_</author><text>Longevity scientists are mostly just experts in the field of getting duped by pension fraudsters who say what they want to hear: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Blue_zone#Scientific_reception&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow noreferrer&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;Blue_zone#Scientific_reception&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Parts of the field are in worryingly deep denial about the number and magnitude of confounding variables a moderate level of skeptical empiricism suggests could be present in their foundational research. As, again, in the specific case that user is worried you&amp;#x27;re glossing over: The lipid hypothesis was probably developed from studies with diets also high in processed foods, simple carbohydrates, added sugar, salt, and vegetable oils, and low in organ meats and heavy-metal-free fish. Don&amp;#x27;t we all agree these things as a staple in a diet will probably negative health outcomes on their own? How can the field be confident enough to publicly assert a model on that? Have they put the rice-fruit-and-legume diet through as rigorous a comparison to the chicken-veg-and-liver diet as they did to the McDonald&amp;#x27;s special diet? It&amp;#x27;d be nice to develop a culture of a straight answer of &amp;quot;Yes, and here&amp;#x27;s the confirming metaanalysis [1]&amp;quot; on this question in place of this &amp;quot;mind-your-seniors&amp;quot; browbeating. Isn&amp;#x27;t &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; what science is supposed to be about?</text><parent_chain><item><author>p_j_w</author><text>&amp;gt;Why do they matter?&lt;p&gt;Because they are the experts in their field. They are the most qualified to not only read through all of the literature, but actually properly understand it, debate it, and come to a reasonably correct conclusion.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;why are you resistant to the idea they could be wrong?&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m not resistant to the idea they could be wrong. It&amp;#x27;s science, the whole thing is built on showing proving previous hypotheses were either wrong or somehow incomplete. However, when it comes to health, I feel I&amp;#x27;d be better served by listening to the consensus of various medical bodies than commenters on the Internet, media outlets, or my own ability to digest the scientific literature. In mathematical terms, I think the expected value of my health outcomes where I listen only to the advice of medical bodies is better than the expected value of my health outcomes where I &amp;quot;do my own research,&amp;quot; in spite of the fact that medical bodies may be wrong here or there. I&amp;#x27;d get it wrong more often.</text></item><item><author>graphe</author><text>Why do they matter? Do you only care about everything they agree on? If not, why are you resistant to the idea they could be wrong?</text></item><item><author>p_j_w</author><text>You make it sound as though the Lipid Hypothesis has been thoroughly debunked, how many medical bodies agree with this conclusion, though? At the very least, the European Atherosclerosis Society, American College of Cardiology, and Canadian Cardiovascular Society disagree with you.</text></item><item><author>spacephysics</author><text>The problem with many red meat studies that show a negative effect, is typically the meat is eaten in the form of fast food cheeseburgers or in the case of dairy, pizza.&lt;p&gt;Red meat alone does not cause heart disease. It’s based off the fraudulent study regarding saturated fat and heart disease, which the sugar industry paid for.&lt;p&gt;More likely, is the breads used in SAD (which have very high amounts of sugar vs other countries’ bread) has a much heavier hand in heart disease.&lt;p&gt;Further, the science about cholesterol and what markers mean what amount of heart disease risk isn’t even a clear science. LSL vs HDL vs triglycerides. It seems we know triglycerides elevated is not good, but it’s not clear on LDL and HDL alone (there’s also the &lt;i&gt;size&lt;/i&gt; of the particle that matters in determining cardiovascular risk)&lt;p&gt;Show me a study of a population who eats steaks, vegetables, avoids processed foods, and is athletic and I’ll show you a healthy heart.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.nytimes.com&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;09&amp;#x2F;13&amp;#x2F;well&amp;#x2F;eat&amp;#x2F;how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html#:~:text=The%20sugar%20industry%20paid%20scientists,newly%20released%20historical%20documents%20show&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow noreferrer&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.nytimes.com&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;09&amp;#x2F;13&amp;#x2F;well&amp;#x2F;eat&amp;#x2F;how-the-sugar-in...&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.npr.org&amp;#x2F;sections&amp;#x2F;thetwo-way&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;09&amp;#x2F;13&amp;#x2F;493739074&amp;#x2F;50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow noreferrer&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.npr.org&amp;#x2F;sections&amp;#x2F;thetwo-way&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;09&amp;#x2F;13&amp;#x2F;493739074...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&amp;#x2F;pmc&amp;#x2F;articles&amp;#x2F;PMC9794145&amp;#x2F;#:~:text=The%20PURE%20investigators%20found%20that,risk%20of%20stroke%20%5B34%5D&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow noreferrer&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&amp;#x2F;pmc&amp;#x2F;articles&amp;#x2F;PMC9794145&amp;#x2F;#:~:tex...&lt;/a&gt;.</text></item><item><author>odyssey7</author><text>A key excerpt, in my opinion.&lt;p&gt;“There is a growing body of evidence about the detrimental health effects of consuming too much red meat and dairy, so this study shouldn’t be taken as an excuse to eat more cheeseburgers and pizza; rather, it indicates that nutrient supplements such as TVA could be used to promote T cell activity.”&lt;p&gt;I’m also curious about this being a trans fat. I’ve heard public health campaigning that trans fats are unhealthy, but this research highlights one as a potential cancer therapy. It is apparently another case of un-nuanced popular ideas about health and nutrition not being the whole truth.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Nutrient found in beef and dairy improves immune response to cancer in mice</title><url>https://biologicalsciences.uchicago.edu/news/tva-nutrient-cancer-immunity</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>graphe</author><text>According to whom are they considered experts? After how the government deals with COVID I don&amp;#x27;t trust &amp;quot;the medical consensus&amp;quot; which is code for &amp;quot;things I want you, the mainstream to agree with&amp;quot;. Why would they be &amp;quot;experts&amp;quot;? What expertise do they have? It&amp;#x27;s not based on the best credentials, it&amp;#x27;s a job.&lt;p&gt;They&amp;#x27;re nameless government entities. Depending if you feel knowledge always grows you may change your ideas. Waves of ignorance litter the medical field today, as hysteria was accepted as the only disease women could have: the wandering womb theory. Consensus of ignorance is still ignorance.&lt;p&gt;There&amp;#x27;s no real evidence that high red meat is bad. There&amp;#x27;s no evidence that eating more veggies is bad.</text><parent_chain><item><author>p_j_w</author><text>&amp;gt;Why do they matter?&lt;p&gt;Because they are the experts in their field. They are the most qualified to not only read through all of the literature, but actually properly understand it, debate it, and come to a reasonably correct conclusion.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;why are you resistant to the idea they could be wrong?&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m not resistant to the idea they could be wrong. It&amp;#x27;s science, the whole thing is built on showing proving previous hypotheses were either wrong or somehow incomplete. However, when it comes to health, I feel I&amp;#x27;d be better served by listening to the consensus of various medical bodies than commenters on the Internet, media outlets, or my own ability to digest the scientific literature. In mathematical terms, I think the expected value of my health outcomes where I listen only to the advice of medical bodies is better than the expected value of my health outcomes where I &amp;quot;do my own research,&amp;quot; in spite of the fact that medical bodies may be wrong here or there. I&amp;#x27;d get it wrong more often.</text></item><item><author>graphe</author><text>Why do they matter? Do you only care about everything they agree on? If not, why are you resistant to the idea they could be wrong?</text></item><item><author>p_j_w</author><text>You make it sound as though the Lipid Hypothesis has been thoroughly debunked, how many medical bodies agree with this conclusion, though? At the very least, the European Atherosclerosis Society, American College of Cardiology, and Canadian Cardiovascular Society disagree with you.</text></item><item><author>spacephysics</author><text>The problem with many red meat studies that show a negative effect, is typically the meat is eaten in the form of fast food cheeseburgers or in the case of dairy, pizza.&lt;p&gt;Red meat alone does not cause heart disease. It’s based off the fraudulent study regarding saturated fat and heart disease, which the sugar industry paid for.&lt;p&gt;More likely, is the breads used in SAD (which have very high amounts of sugar vs other countries’ bread) has a much heavier hand in heart disease.&lt;p&gt;Further, the science about cholesterol and what markers mean what amount of heart disease risk isn’t even a clear science. LSL vs HDL vs triglycerides. It seems we know triglycerides elevated is not good, but it’s not clear on LDL and HDL alone (there’s also the &lt;i&gt;size&lt;/i&gt; of the particle that matters in determining cardiovascular risk)&lt;p&gt;Show me a study of a population who eats steaks, vegetables, avoids processed foods, and is athletic and I’ll show you a healthy heart.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.nytimes.com&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;09&amp;#x2F;13&amp;#x2F;well&amp;#x2F;eat&amp;#x2F;how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html#:~:text=The%20sugar%20industry%20paid%20scientists,newly%20released%20historical%20documents%20show&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow noreferrer&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.nytimes.com&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;09&amp;#x2F;13&amp;#x2F;well&amp;#x2F;eat&amp;#x2F;how-the-sugar-in...&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.npr.org&amp;#x2F;sections&amp;#x2F;thetwo-way&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;09&amp;#x2F;13&amp;#x2F;493739074&amp;#x2F;50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow noreferrer&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.npr.org&amp;#x2F;sections&amp;#x2F;thetwo-way&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;09&amp;#x2F;13&amp;#x2F;493739074...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&amp;#x2F;pmc&amp;#x2F;articles&amp;#x2F;PMC9794145&amp;#x2F;#:~:text=The%20PURE%20investigators%20found%20that,risk%20of%20stroke%20%5B34%5D&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow noreferrer&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&amp;#x2F;pmc&amp;#x2F;articles&amp;#x2F;PMC9794145&amp;#x2F;#:~:tex...&lt;/a&gt;.</text></item><item><author>odyssey7</author><text>A key excerpt, in my opinion.&lt;p&gt;“There is a growing body of evidence about the detrimental health effects of consuming too much red meat and dairy, so this study shouldn’t be taken as an excuse to eat more cheeseburgers and pizza; rather, it indicates that nutrient supplements such as TVA could be used to promote T cell activity.”&lt;p&gt;I’m also curious about this being a trans fat. I’ve heard public health campaigning that trans fats are unhealthy, but this research highlights one as a potential cancer therapy. It is apparently another case of un-nuanced popular ideas about health and nutrition not being the whole truth.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Nutrient found in beef and dairy improves immune response to cancer in mice</title><url>https://biologicalsciences.uchicago.edu/news/tva-nutrient-cancer-immunity</url></story>