<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>cbanek</author><text>I don&amp;#x27;t believe that people &amp;quot;choose&amp;quot; to be poor, and there is an overwhelming societal component at play.  But I can&amp;#x27;t say that the individual and their choices don&amp;#x27;t matter.&lt;p&gt;He admits he had problems with drugs, and that his life spiraled out of control.  Do I think we should have treatment programs so it doesn&amp;#x27;t get this bad? Yes, of course.  But some people don&amp;#x27;t think there&amp;#x27;s a problem, or need help until they hit bottom.  It&amp;#x27;s part of their problem.  Many times you can&amp;#x27;t commit someone to treatment against their will, at least in the US.&lt;p&gt;In this complicated world, where we view everything through our own subjective lens (consciousness), we have to admit that the individual has a role to play.  How do they frame their reality?  Are they giving up? Do they just feel &amp;quot;down on their luck&amp;quot;? Do they have that will? Why do some people fail in the face of adversity and others succeed?  Are they just having &amp;quot;a good time&amp;quot; (with drugs)?  Is there a mental illness at play? Understanding the problem is key to solving it.&lt;p&gt;If someone has completely given up on making their life better, then they are basically choosing to be poor, because their mind has accepted there is no other choice (no matter how slim the chance of success).  They may not have any other choice but to be poor, but to stop improving basically ensures it.  Some people lose the will to live, while others do not. (This isn&amp;#x27;t just people in extreme poverty either, but poor people marginalized by society, or people that become poor after being rich)&lt;p&gt;Let me just run a parallel to another public health crisis - obesity.  I&amp;#x27;m fat.  Always have been.  But the big difference to me is consciously making the choice I&amp;#x27;m going to do what it takes to get rid of it.  We all know that exercising and eating are in our control, they are choices we make.  They might be painful choices, but we have them.  But when we convince ourselves it&amp;#x27;s not possible (&amp;quot;it&amp;#x27;s genetic&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;i&amp;#x27;ll never be thin&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;i lack the strength&amp;quot;, etc), we do give up, and that&amp;#x27;s basically losing the battle before you start.  Sure, we could blame everyone who&amp;#x27;s putting bad things in food, and selling us french fries, but we also know that they wouldn&amp;#x27;t be selling them if they weren&amp;#x27;t so good.  And that we all have a choice of how many times we eat them.  Even if we only made healthy food, some people would still eat too much.  There&amp;#x27;s always personal choice at play.  If anything, society is the culmination of people&amp;#x27;s personal choices on a macro scale.&lt;p&gt;Do I think we need to help the poor and provide services? Of course.  But we also need to give them hope.  A lot of people don&amp;#x27;t know the government services that could help them, because they aren&amp;#x27;t looking, or have given up.  Just getting services to people is a challenge, and relies on people wanting to accept help, and being able to accept those services to help get them back on their feet, and giving them the tools to stay on the up and up.</text><parent_chain><item><author>BluishLight</author><text>Sometimes it seems to me that histories like this put the weight of leaving poverty in the individuals himselves rather than the government social services, enforcing the myth that poor people is people that chooses to.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews</title><url>http://www.one.org/international/blog/the-homeless-man-who-turned-his-life-arround-by-offering-book-reviews-instead-of-begging</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>wutbrodo</author><text>It&amp;#x27;s really odd to me that people read an article like this and jump to the assumption that the article is putting the responsibility for alleviating poverty solely on the poor.  When you actually read the article, it doesn&amp;#x27;t imply anything of the sort (the closest I can come is the fact that the title has &amp;quot;instead of begging&amp;quot; at the end, but even that is stretching a bit).  Particularly when the source is an organization whose About page says things like&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;Helping secure legislation in the US, Canada and EU on transparency in the extractives sector to help fight corruption and ensure more money from oil and gas revenues in Africa is used to fight poverty.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;and&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;Successfully advocating for official development assistance, which has increased globally by $35.7 billion between 2005 and 2014.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s pretty hard to draw the conclusion that they&amp;#x27;re some kind of bootstraps-only ideologues.  Every time I see someone make a claim that an article about someone getting themselves out of poverty somehow implies that society doesn&amp;#x27;t owe the poor anything, I can&amp;#x27;t help but think it says more about the person making the complaint than it does about the article.</text><parent_chain><item><author>BluishLight</author><text>Sometimes it seems to me that histories like this put the weight of leaving poverty in the individuals himselves rather than the government social services, enforcing the myth that poor people is people that chooses to.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews</title><url>http://www.one.org/international/blog/the-homeless-man-who-turned-his-life-arround-by-offering-book-reviews-instead-of-begging</url></story>