<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>lostcolony</author><text>Okay, maybe. Rather than people wanting the worst possible thing for prisoners because of the perceived harm those prisoners have caused them (vindictiveness), they want the worst possible thing for prisoners because HOW DARE someone else have something nicer than them that they didn&amp;#x27;t &amp;quot;earn&amp;quot;. That&amp;#x27;s the same attitude that would begrudge a homeless person a donated name brand hoodie, because (you) had to pay $X for it.&lt;p&gt;That&amp;#x27;s even worse. But maybe the term should be different; maybe it isn&amp;#x27;t vindictiveness.&lt;p&gt;The US is the most incarcerated country in the world. We have the most prisoners, the most prisoners per capita, the highest spending on prisoners, and one of the worst recidivism rates (76% after 5 years).&lt;p&gt;What we&amp;#x27;re doing is -clearly- not working. The idea that we&amp;#x27;d rather spend -more- than other countries, on a system that works worse, begs the question of &amp;#x27;why&amp;#x27;. Why would we want to keep doing the same thing, that isn&amp;#x27;t working, -and- costs us more? Because we think prisoners don&amp;#x27;t deserve better.&lt;p&gt;Maybe that isn&amp;#x27;t &amp;quot;vindictiveness&amp;quot;, but it&amp;#x27;s damned close.&lt;p&gt;It certainly isn&amp;#x27;t &amp;quot;I want to make sure my tax dollars being used effectively&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;I want the best outcomes from prisons&amp;quot;, or even &amp;quot;I want to make sure they&amp;#x27;re only getting what they need to serve their time and then be able to come out and rejoin society&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;It very much is &amp;quot;Damn the consequences, and how much it costs, I want them to have the worst possible experience&amp;quot;.</text><parent_chain><item><author>tristor</author><text>&amp;gt; I&amp;#x27;d be happy if we&amp;#x27;d just get over this vindictive need to deprive prisoners of basic pleasures.&lt;p&gt;I won&amp;#x27;t argue that there aren&amp;#x27;t some people who have such a vindictive need, but in most cases where I&amp;#x27;ve had conversations with folks about things like this, it&amp;#x27;s more that they oppose someone having a similar (or maybe &amp;quot;better&amp;quot;) quality of life to what they have, without working to pay for it, and rather being paid for by them.  The opposition to these things in prisons seem similar to the arguments I hear from people against social safety net things generally.  Not to say these arguments are reasonable, but I don&amp;#x27;t think vindictiveness is the primary driving factor.</text></item><item><author>lostcolony</author><text>I&amp;#x27;d be happy if we&amp;#x27;d just get over this vindictive need to deprive prisoners of basic pleasures.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;ve seen outrage over the idea that prisoners have access to TVs, or gaming consoles, or similar, stories of wardens confiscating books and pen and paper and such. I understand there are some other concerns that may warrant keeping usage of some of those under surveillance or similar (keep a pencil from being used as a shiv say), but other countries don&amp;#x27;t try and make prisons as miserable an experience as possible, and they have far, far lower rates of recidivism and violence and such.</text></item><item><author>mc32</author><text>So put them to work and pay them the going rate [in the normal economy] and use that toward victim restitution?&lt;p&gt;If you pay them the market rate and this activity improves their well-being compared to being sedentary, I think it’s a win for all involved.</text></item><item><author>quacked</author><text>If this is indeed true, it is yet another piece of evidence in the case for prison reform. Prisoners are universally bored, yet in many cases insufficiently protected from one another. Read accounts of any long-time convict&amp;#x27;s time in prison and you&amp;#x27;ll hear about excruciating boredom punctuated by acts of outrageous sadism.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>People behave more sadistically when they’re bored</title><url>https://digest.bps.org.uk/2022/01/12/people-behave-more-sadistically-when-theyre-bored/</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>quacked</author><text>I understand their frustration, but I think it&amp;#x27;s a win-win situation to provide a nice life in prison. They get out of society so we don&amp;#x27;t have to deal with them and they also aren&amp;#x27;t subject to torturous conditions.</text><parent_chain><item><author>tristor</author><text>&amp;gt; I&amp;#x27;d be happy if we&amp;#x27;d just get over this vindictive need to deprive prisoners of basic pleasures.&lt;p&gt;I won&amp;#x27;t argue that there aren&amp;#x27;t some people who have such a vindictive need, but in most cases where I&amp;#x27;ve had conversations with folks about things like this, it&amp;#x27;s more that they oppose someone having a similar (or maybe &amp;quot;better&amp;quot;) quality of life to what they have, without working to pay for it, and rather being paid for by them.  The opposition to these things in prisons seem similar to the arguments I hear from people against social safety net things generally.  Not to say these arguments are reasonable, but I don&amp;#x27;t think vindictiveness is the primary driving factor.</text></item><item><author>lostcolony</author><text>I&amp;#x27;d be happy if we&amp;#x27;d just get over this vindictive need to deprive prisoners of basic pleasures.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;ve seen outrage over the idea that prisoners have access to TVs, or gaming consoles, or similar, stories of wardens confiscating books and pen and paper and such. I understand there are some other concerns that may warrant keeping usage of some of those under surveillance or similar (keep a pencil from being used as a shiv say), but other countries don&amp;#x27;t try and make prisons as miserable an experience as possible, and they have far, far lower rates of recidivism and violence and such.</text></item><item><author>mc32</author><text>So put them to work and pay them the going rate [in the normal economy] and use that toward victim restitution?&lt;p&gt;If you pay them the market rate and this activity improves their well-being compared to being sedentary, I think it’s a win for all involved.</text></item><item><author>quacked</author><text>If this is indeed true, it is yet another piece of evidence in the case for prison reform. Prisoners are universally bored, yet in many cases insufficiently protected from one another. Read accounts of any long-time convict&amp;#x27;s time in prison and you&amp;#x27;ll hear about excruciating boredom punctuated by acts of outrageous sadism.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>People behave more sadistically when they’re bored</title><url>https://digest.bps.org.uk/2022/01/12/people-behave-more-sadistically-when-theyre-bored/</url></story>