<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>Spooky23</author><text>No way. I have some friends who&amp;#x27;ve been operating a family farm since the 1600&amp;#x27;s in Upstate NY. They are doing great, and IMO the future looks brighter. The problem with what you describe is that there is too much complexity, too many middlemen, and too much reliance on the West Coast.&lt;p&gt;Without all of this nonsense, these folks are successfully growing greens through the winter in a harsh northern climate, using high tunnels and fans with simple timers and sensors. It&amp;#x27;s totally doable and scalable without wasting lots of money on equipment and tractors.&lt;p&gt;In terms of cost -- most of the cost gets piled on in the supply chain. I get milk delivered twice a week for a slight (15%) price premium compared to the grocery store. The farmer&amp;#x27;s gross is about 40% higher than what it would be if he were shipping to a co-op or commercial dairy. We do most seasonal vegetable shopping from non-organic, local farms and &lt;i&gt;conservatively&lt;/i&gt; pay 75% less as compared to the stuff shipped in from California or Chile.&lt;p&gt;Small scale agriculture is going to be huge IMO as the ability the sustain the miracle in the desert in California and the costs of fertilizer rises.</text><parent_chain><item><author>rfdub</author><text>Hope these &amp;quot;micro farmers&amp;quot; enjoy the good times while they last as their days are numbered. Sensors, automation and intelligent, intensive and most importantly organic, vertical farming is going to ultimately decimate the small producer farming industry. The thing is produce is a commodity, not a branded good, and people ultimately don&amp;#x27;t care what &amp;quot;label&amp;quot; is on their vegetables and won&amp;#x27;t pay a premium for a given label when they can get reasonable analogs for the same or a lesser price. Consumers just want quality produce at a reasonable price.&lt;p&gt;When technology driven high intensity automated farms are able to output yields orders of magnitude greater than these people digging in the dirt with hand-tools are able to output, at a commensurate if not substantially higher quality, they&amp;#x27;ll be able to undercut the prices of these &amp;quot;micro farmers&amp;quot; by significant amounts and all consumers will care about is that their organic heirloom greens taste just as good but cost half the price. Not the mention they&amp;#x27;ll do so with a substantially reduced environmental impact, requiring less water per unit of output and requiring substantially less space allowing formerly agricultural lands to be returned back to their natural state.&lt;p&gt;Small scale agriculture is a fantastic solution to the problem of disaffected young people who want to be farmers, but doesn&amp;#x27;t really offer any practical solutions for the rest of the world.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Rise of the High-Profit Micro Farm (2016)</title><url>http://modernfarmer.com/2016/10/jm-fortier/</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>willholloway</author><text>I have looked into this extensively and the promise of vertical farming is a big if, and It might take a breakthrough like fusion power to make it cost competitive with the methods these farmers are using.&lt;p&gt;The capital costs of the building and infrastructure and lights and most importantly the input costs of the power are going to have a very hard time beating what is essentially free energy from the sun, free land, free growing medium in the form of soil and virtually free water everywhere but in very dry climates.&lt;p&gt;These farmers also grow year round, even in places like Canada with very low tech solutions, which are basically plastic sheeting and metal tubes fashioned into low tunnels that cover the rows of crops.&lt;p&gt;When you factor in labor costs it might be hard to scale it over a certain size, but for a person that owns a half acre lot that came with their house and wants to farm instead of commuting into the city to a cubicle, that economy is going to be hard to beat.</text><parent_chain><item><author>rfdub</author><text>Hope these &amp;quot;micro farmers&amp;quot; enjoy the good times while they last as their days are numbered. Sensors, automation and intelligent, intensive and most importantly organic, vertical farming is going to ultimately decimate the small producer farming industry. The thing is produce is a commodity, not a branded good, and people ultimately don&amp;#x27;t care what &amp;quot;label&amp;quot; is on their vegetables and won&amp;#x27;t pay a premium for a given label when they can get reasonable analogs for the same or a lesser price. Consumers just want quality produce at a reasonable price.&lt;p&gt;When technology driven high intensity automated farms are able to output yields orders of magnitude greater than these people digging in the dirt with hand-tools are able to output, at a commensurate if not substantially higher quality, they&amp;#x27;ll be able to undercut the prices of these &amp;quot;micro farmers&amp;quot; by significant amounts and all consumers will care about is that their organic heirloom greens taste just as good but cost half the price. Not the mention they&amp;#x27;ll do so with a substantially reduced environmental impact, requiring less water per unit of output and requiring substantially less space allowing formerly agricultural lands to be returned back to their natural state.&lt;p&gt;Small scale agriculture is a fantastic solution to the problem of disaffected young people who want to be farmers, but doesn&amp;#x27;t really offer any practical solutions for the rest of the world.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Rise of the High-Profit Micro Farm (2016)</title><url>http://modernfarmer.com/2016/10/jm-fortier/</url></story>