<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>TallGuyShort</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m not saying that either is always the case, but that I have seen example of both. I also wouldn&amp;#x27;t want to agree with the phrase &amp;quot;not worth the effort&amp;quot;. It&amp;#x27;s not that I think anyone&amp;#x27;s &amp;quot;not worth it&amp;quot; - it&amp;#x27;s that current methods simply aren&amp;#x27;t going to work all the time, no matter how much people&amp;#x27;s attitudes or resources change. The GP comment pointed out personality issues and upbringing, and I think that&amp;#x27;s spot-on - I don&amp;#x27;t think we yet understanding issues like that to really be effective at helping people overcome them, and there&amp;#x27;s certainly work to be done in that area. As I said - I continue my own charitable efforts, and I&amp;#x27;m only saying that it&amp;#x27;s not just an issue of &amp;quot;boo, Silicon Valley, how could you let this happen?&amp;quot;</text><parent_chain><item><author>milkshakes</author><text>are you saying that there is simply no way to improve the circumstances of these people, or that they&amp;#x27;re just not worth the effort because they refuse to help themselves?</text></item><item><author>TallGuyShort</author><text>I did not mean to suggest the problem was purely economical - the individuals I&amp;#x27;m referring to have also been receiving professional help for, when necessary, prior addictions, career training and mental health problems (although such cases happen to have been the minority in my specific experience). I understand there&amp;#x27;s always more that can be done, but I do believe there exist people (in a tiny minority) who do want to lower the amount of responsibility in their life to the point that they are homeless, and that there&amp;#x27;s nothing that can be done to actually help said individuals, and I also believe that it&amp;#x27;s pointless to criticize society at large for not doing enough unless you can suggest specific, actionable things we could all do better. I don&amp;#x27;t say that with a defiant attitude - honestly, if you think I&amp;#x27;m missing some action I can personally take to improve things, I&amp;#x27;m all ears.</text></item><item><author>StandardFuture</author><text>That&amp;#x27;s because it is absolutely foolish to think that this problem is purely economical.&lt;p&gt;There are much deeper and more complex problems PER INDIVIDUAL that you don&amp;#x27;t know about. Personality traits, undiagnosed mental disorders, a horrible upbringing, etc., etc., etc.&lt;p&gt;To summarize all these people&amp;#x27;s problems as stemming from a singular cause does nothing for anyone. I think we can show that helping a particular individual does way more good than trying to solve a whole &amp;quot;group of people&amp;#x27;s&amp;quot; &amp;quot;problems&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;That&amp;#x27;s why when you read stories about a single guy helping a single homeless person&amp;#x2F;person in straits it truly does mean more for us as individuals than just a charity wanting us to throw money at them.&lt;p&gt;Case in point: &lt;a href=&quot;http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/york-city-programmer-homeless-man-software-coding-classes/story?id=20042021&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;abcnews.go.com&amp;#x2F;Technology&amp;#x2F;york-city-programmer-homele...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>TallGuyShort</author><text>I know my experience is entirely anecdotal, so even I take it with a grain of salt, but unbiased, verified data on this topic is hard to come by at a large scale. I spend between 10 - 20% of both my income and time working through a charitable organization, and since moving to Silicon Valley a couple of years ago, I have been disappointed to see that most of the people who I&amp;#x27;ve worked with who have become homeless recently enough for me to know the circumstances well (or who have become homeless while I have known them), and most of the people who have had long-term welfare dependencies, have not shown any initiative or drive to seize opportunities. They have rejected job offers for silly reasons, they have soured their relationships with those willing to help them over silly issues, and they have in some cases outright rejected offers of assistance. Now, I don&amp;#x27;t say this to suggest that all homeless people deserve to live in camps like this, but I would like to suggest that the existence of homeless camps is not a sign that our society is beyond &amp;quot;common decency and civilization... so far beyond that it&amp;#x27;s obscene&amp;quot;, as one commenter has described it. I don&amp;#x27;t doubt that there are many who are or who have been in those camps that had fallen on hard times and did not get a fair second chance - but likewise I personally know some who have simply been beyond help, and I don&amp;#x27;t know why. Clearly there are places that have more or less homelessness, so there must be some cause involved that may not be obvious - all I wish to say as that as a &amp;quot;hacker&amp;quot; in Silicon Valley, I have spent my efforts in this direction far enough that my wife asked me to cut back for the sake of our family - and I was simply unable to get most people to accept the help they needed. I am skeptical of suggestions that all that is needed is for the 1% to stop being so 1%-ish. (I apologize - I have made several small edits while organizing my thoughts that aren&amp;#x27;t convenient to label explicitly as edits...)&lt;p&gt;edit: (Yes - another one) For the record, I agree with most of the suggestions that have been provided in responses. I think these are avenues worth further investment and exploration. My only point here is that it&amp;#x27;s not just a case of the 1% in Silicon Valley being selfish.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Largest Homeless Camp In US is in Silicon Valley</title><url>http://www.businessinsider.com/the-jungle-largest-homeless-camp-in-us-2013-8?op=1</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>lutusp</author><text>&amp;gt; are you saying that there is simply no way to improve the circumstances of these people, or that they&amp;#x27;re just not worth the effort because they refuse to help themselves?&lt;p&gt;The issue is deeper than you&amp;#x27;re acknowledging. Evolution by natural selection works only because of perpetual shortage, and because nature doesn&amp;#x27;t waste anything. If we artificially remove any appearance of shortage, of a need to struggle, we remove the incentive to work. So we need to imitate nature at least in some respects. But that goal cannot be achieved if we &amp;quot;improve the circumstances&amp;quot; of everyone in need.&lt;p&gt;In short, if we try to fix the problem of poverty, we will make everyone poor. That&amp;#x27;s history&amp;#x27;s lesson.</text><parent_chain><item><author>milkshakes</author><text>are you saying that there is simply no way to improve the circumstances of these people, or that they&amp;#x27;re just not worth the effort because they refuse to help themselves?</text></item><item><author>TallGuyShort</author><text>I did not mean to suggest the problem was purely economical - the individuals I&amp;#x27;m referring to have also been receiving professional help for, when necessary, prior addictions, career training and mental health problems (although such cases happen to have been the minority in my specific experience). I understand there&amp;#x27;s always more that can be done, but I do believe there exist people (in a tiny minority) who do want to lower the amount of responsibility in their life to the point that they are homeless, and that there&amp;#x27;s nothing that can be done to actually help said individuals, and I also believe that it&amp;#x27;s pointless to criticize society at large for not doing enough unless you can suggest specific, actionable things we could all do better. I don&amp;#x27;t say that with a defiant attitude - honestly, if you think I&amp;#x27;m missing some action I can personally take to improve things, I&amp;#x27;m all ears.</text></item><item><author>StandardFuture</author><text>That&amp;#x27;s because it is absolutely foolish to think that this problem is purely economical.&lt;p&gt;There are much deeper and more complex problems PER INDIVIDUAL that you don&amp;#x27;t know about. Personality traits, undiagnosed mental disorders, a horrible upbringing, etc., etc., etc.&lt;p&gt;To summarize all these people&amp;#x27;s problems as stemming from a singular cause does nothing for anyone. I think we can show that helping a particular individual does way more good than trying to solve a whole &amp;quot;group of people&amp;#x27;s&amp;quot; &amp;quot;problems&amp;quot;.&lt;p&gt;That&amp;#x27;s why when you read stories about a single guy helping a single homeless person&amp;#x2F;person in straits it truly does mean more for us as individuals than just a charity wanting us to throw money at them.&lt;p&gt;Case in point: &lt;a href=&quot;http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/york-city-programmer-homeless-man-software-coding-classes/story?id=20042021&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;abcnews.go.com&amp;#x2F;Technology&amp;#x2F;york-city-programmer-homele...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item><item><author>TallGuyShort</author><text>I know my experience is entirely anecdotal, so even I take it with a grain of salt, but unbiased, verified data on this topic is hard to come by at a large scale. I spend between 10 - 20% of both my income and time working through a charitable organization, and since moving to Silicon Valley a couple of years ago, I have been disappointed to see that most of the people who I&amp;#x27;ve worked with who have become homeless recently enough for me to know the circumstances well (or who have become homeless while I have known them), and most of the people who have had long-term welfare dependencies, have not shown any initiative or drive to seize opportunities. They have rejected job offers for silly reasons, they have soured their relationships with those willing to help them over silly issues, and they have in some cases outright rejected offers of assistance. Now, I don&amp;#x27;t say this to suggest that all homeless people deserve to live in camps like this, but I would like to suggest that the existence of homeless camps is not a sign that our society is beyond &amp;quot;common decency and civilization... so far beyond that it&amp;#x27;s obscene&amp;quot;, as one commenter has described it. I don&amp;#x27;t doubt that there are many who are or who have been in those camps that had fallen on hard times and did not get a fair second chance - but likewise I personally know some who have simply been beyond help, and I don&amp;#x27;t know why. Clearly there are places that have more or less homelessness, so there must be some cause involved that may not be obvious - all I wish to say as that as a &amp;quot;hacker&amp;quot; in Silicon Valley, I have spent my efforts in this direction far enough that my wife asked me to cut back for the sake of our family - and I was simply unable to get most people to accept the help they needed. I am skeptical of suggestions that all that is needed is for the 1% to stop being so 1%-ish. (I apologize - I have made several small edits while organizing my thoughts that aren&amp;#x27;t convenient to label explicitly as edits...)&lt;p&gt;edit: (Yes - another one) For the record, I agree with most of the suggestions that have been provided in responses. I think these are avenues worth further investment and exploration. My only point here is that it&amp;#x27;s not just a case of the 1% in Silicon Valley being selfish.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Largest Homeless Camp In US is in Silicon Valley</title><url>http://www.businessinsider.com/the-jungle-largest-homeless-camp-in-us-2013-8?op=1</url></story>