<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>idealmedtech</author><text>If you clean a figure 8 really well, it&amp;#x27;s just as easy to untie after a whip as a bowline (okay, maybe not just as easy, but very close), and much much more universal for your partner to inspect.&lt;p&gt;The process I follow to ensure a clean knot every time:&lt;p&gt;1. Tie your figure 8, with the tail the same size every time (use your body as a ruler, testing a few lengths to get the perfect size)&lt;p&gt;2. Pass the tail up through your hard points so the knot is only a few inches from the bottom hard point.&lt;p&gt;3. Orient your knot so the tail is coming out of the bottom right side&lt;p&gt;4. This is the most important step! Instead of passing the tail through the inside of the knot when starting the followthrough, pass it &lt;i&gt;in between&lt;/i&gt; the tail strand and the bottom right of the knot.&lt;p&gt;5. Follow through as normal. It should come out almost clean (eg no need to flip strands over each other)&lt;p&gt;6. For all 4 combos of top and bottom strand, yank them to make the knot very tight. The tighter and cleaner it is, the easier to untie after a whip.&lt;p&gt;7. If you do this all, the load strand will be on top, so no difficult flipped strands after a whip!&lt;p&gt;This is just my process, what&amp;#x27;s most important is doing something that works for you and that you can get right every time.</text><parent_chain><item><author>kyledrake</author><text>Random comment: Securing the trace eight with a second knot is really not necessary, as it is a self tightening knot. Most climbers don&amp;#x27;t do it, my climbing safety book doesn&amp;#x27;t show it and all gyms I&amp;#x27;ve been too, sans one in Vancouver WA for some reason, don&amp;#x27;t require it. Rough rule is two fists length for the tail and you&amp;#x27;re good.&lt;p&gt;Another comment mentioned this too, it&amp;#x27;s much easier to untie if tied in a specific way and if you do lead climbing they usually show you the technique. You can also do it with a Yosemite finish for a similar improvement.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Essential Climbing Knots</title><url>https://www.climbing.com/skills/essential-climbing-knots-complete-guide/</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>wskish</author><text>I was taught that the 2nd knot just provides quick visual proof that the tail is long enough to not pull through under load.</text><parent_chain><item><author>kyledrake</author><text>Random comment: Securing the trace eight with a second knot is really not necessary, as it is a self tightening knot. Most climbers don&amp;#x27;t do it, my climbing safety book doesn&amp;#x27;t show it and all gyms I&amp;#x27;ve been too, sans one in Vancouver WA for some reason, don&amp;#x27;t require it. Rough rule is two fists length for the tail and you&amp;#x27;re good.&lt;p&gt;Another comment mentioned this too, it&amp;#x27;s much easier to untie if tied in a specific way and if you do lead climbing they usually show you the technique. You can also do it with a Yosemite finish for a similar improvement.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Essential Climbing Knots</title><url>https://www.climbing.com/skills/essential-climbing-knots-complete-guide/</url></story>