<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>mistermann</author><text>The problem with this theory is programming in some databases (MS SQL Server) is extremely unpleasant.&lt;p&gt;For example, you can finally, in the year 2016, split strings natively in TSQL:&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.brentozar.com&amp;#x2F;archive&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;03&amp;#x2F;splitting-strings-sql-server-2016-rescue&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.brentozar.com&amp;#x2F;archive&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;03&amp;#x2F;splitting-strings-...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Compare that to this SO question:&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;stackoverflow.com&amp;#x2F;questions&amp;#x2F;2647&amp;#x2F;how-do-i-split-a-string-so-i-can-access-item-x&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;stackoverflow.com&amp;#x2F;questions&amp;#x2F;2647&amp;#x2F;how-do-i-split-a-str...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Note there are 32 answers on that question, many of which fail under various edge cases.  Also notice that no one finds this situation absurd in the slightest (Stockholm Syndrome is alive and well in the MSSQL community apparently).  This is just one example of the nonsense you have to put up with on SQL Server, there are many others.&lt;p&gt;And while PG is getting yet another new language capability, it appears Microsoft is pulling SQLCLR support (in Azure, so far):&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.brentozar.com&amp;#x2F;archive&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;04&amp;#x2F;breaking-news-literally-sql-clr-support-removed-azure-sql-db&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.brentozar.com&amp;#x2F;archive&amp;#x2F;2016&amp;#x2F;04&amp;#x2F;breaking-news-lite...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;...which probably doesn&amp;#x27;t matter at the end of the day because almost no DBA would ever let you use it in production.&lt;p&gt;While it would cause harm to my personal career, nothing would make me happier than to see Postgres crush MSSQL, Microsoft has earned nothing less with their absolute disdain for their users.</text><parent_chain><item><author>yomly</author><text>Interesting coincidence for me that this hits the front page of HN today as I recently read this article [0].&lt;p&gt;The author thinks we should move away using the database purely to persist the data, while handling all logic&amp;#x2F;validation in the server language (e.g. By using an ORM to map your server language to the database) was less robust over time.&lt;p&gt;Instead, he suggests pushing knowledge of your data into your database as this has proven to be more time resilient and takes advantage of the power of these databases.&lt;p&gt;I liked the argument (which is better expressed that my paraphrasing) but my largest reservation was that expressiveness is a big consideration for choosing some language, and in this case the alternative to using Ruby&amp;#x2F;JS&amp;#x2F;Python + ORM in your MVC framework is to use SQL functions, which are syntactically clunky&amp;#x2F;dated at the very least.&lt;p&gt;It seems like Andl is looking to bridge this to some extent.&lt;p&gt;[0] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;sivers.org&amp;#x2F;pg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;sivers.org&amp;#x2F;pg&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Andl, a relational language that is not SQL, is coming to Postgres</title><url>http://www.andl.org/2016/04/postgres-meet-andl/</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>pjungwir</author><text>Interesting connection! :-)&lt;p&gt;As a web developer who has done mostly Rails for a long time, I default to ORMs. And it seems to me that the last 20 years of architecture theory boils down to &amp;quot;How do I put a layer in front of my database?&amp;quot; Once your schema becomes a public API, your app is frozen.&lt;p&gt;But on the other hand, I believe in using all the features your database has to offer. I remember doing J2EE in the early oughts everyone spoke about being able to swap out one RDBMS for another, and I eventually decided that kind of lowest-common-denominator approach was not worth the cost in preset-day productivity. Plus building on an open source project is less risky than something with outrageous licensing fees, so why not use it? So my own Rails projects have real foreign keys, CHECK constraints, some SQL functions (even some in C), views, and big queries. If I can express an invariant I trust Postgres more than myself to enforce it. I&amp;#x27;ve also had some projects lately where building a JSON response for the front-end involved hundreds of ActiveRecord objects, and dodging that by using the JSON-construction functions in pg 9.4+ is a huge performance win. You can even still use the ActiveRecord DSL to build the query, using your scopes and associations and Ruby code, but then do a `to_sql` and wrap the whole thing in Postgres JSON fuctions. I feel like there could almost be a gem for that. Anyway, sorry for rambling. :-) I agree that Andl could make it much more appealing for people to &amp;quot;put the logic in the database,&amp;quot; and I feel like I have been moving in that direction for a long time. Maybe we will see an ActiveRecord Andl adapter?!</text><parent_chain><item><author>yomly</author><text>Interesting coincidence for me that this hits the front page of HN today as I recently read this article [0].&lt;p&gt;The author thinks we should move away using the database purely to persist the data, while handling all logic&amp;#x2F;validation in the server language (e.g. By using an ORM to map your server language to the database) was less robust over time.&lt;p&gt;Instead, he suggests pushing knowledge of your data into your database as this has proven to be more time resilient and takes advantage of the power of these databases.&lt;p&gt;I liked the argument (which is better expressed that my paraphrasing) but my largest reservation was that expressiveness is a big consideration for choosing some language, and in this case the alternative to using Ruby&amp;#x2F;JS&amp;#x2F;Python + ORM in your MVC framework is to use SQL functions, which are syntactically clunky&amp;#x2F;dated at the very least.&lt;p&gt;It seems like Andl is looking to bridge this to some extent.&lt;p&gt;[0] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;sivers.org&amp;#x2F;pg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;sivers.org&amp;#x2F;pg&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Andl, a relational language that is not SQL, is coming to Postgres</title><url>http://www.andl.org/2016/04/postgres-meet-andl/</url></story>