<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>rmah</author><text>Um, but the water in California &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; cheap and plentiful.  Sustainably sourced, I don&amp;#x27;t know.  But the root of the problem is that farmers do not pay a &amp;quot;fair&amp;quot; price, they get steep steep discounts.  All the lawn watering, all the toilet flushes, all the swimming pools, etc. all amount to around 10% of water use in California.   And those people already pay, on average, many multiples of what farmers pay per gallon.</text><parent_chain><item><author>jillesvangurp</author><text>Either way, Californians should stop pretending water is cheap, plentiful or sourced in a sustainable way. It simply isn&amp;#x27;t. Instead of pointing fingers at each other, the best way is to price it accordingly. The root problem is that this is not the case and it&amp;#x27;s too cheap. And it&amp;#x27;s only cheap because it comes from non renewable sources that are getting scarcer. Everybody feels entitled to the cheap water and then ends up wasting it because it is so cheap.&lt;p&gt;More expensive water leads to people taking better care of what they do with it. E.g. watering a lawn because you like it to be green should not be close to free. Especially not in what is essentially a desert (which large parts of California effectively are). That&amp;#x27;s an epic waste of water. You should have the freedom to buy that water at a fair price and waste it as you please. But it should cost you. Lawns should be an expensive hobby.&lt;p&gt;Same with toilets. There&amp;#x27;s no need to flush five gallons every time you use the toilet. Less wasteful toilets exist. And of course, farmers can learn a thing or two about farming more sustainably. But why would they when that does not save them any money?&lt;p&gt;There is no shortage of water. California borders on the largest reservoir of it on the planet (the pacific). All it needs is a little bit of desalination. Lots of other countries do this at scale; typically because it is preferable to not having clean water. This takes energy and money but it can be done sustainably. If water was priced correctly, more water would be desalinated. Instead, aquifers are drained, former lakes are turned into salt lakes, etc.</text></item><item><author>orlp</author><text>&amp;quot;Californians are being asked to reduce their water use by 15 percent over 2020 levels to protect water reserves and help maintain critical flows for fish and wildlife wherever possible.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;And by that they surely mean agriculture, right? Right? The industry responsible for 80% of the water usage in California? They &lt;i&gt;surely&lt;/i&gt; couldn&amp;#x27;t just be asking urban consumers to reduce?&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;us-news&amp;#x2F;2022&amp;#x2F;may&amp;#x2F;23&amp;#x2F;california-drought-water-restrictions-gavin-newsom&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;us-news&amp;#x2F;2022&amp;#x2F;may&amp;#x2F;23&amp;#x2F;california-d...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Nope, it&amp;#x27;s households and small businesses.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]</title><url>https://drought.ca.gov/media/2022/05/External-CA-Drought-Weekly-Update-05232022.pdf</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>BurningFrog</author><text>Your on the right track. Pricing is the solution (and cause) for most scarce resource problems.&lt;p&gt;But in California, household consumption is very far from the main water problem.&lt;p&gt;Agriculture is a far bigger problem, and the pricing regime there is often completely insane.&lt;p&gt;There are other problem sectors.</text><parent_chain><item><author>jillesvangurp</author><text>Either way, Californians should stop pretending water is cheap, plentiful or sourced in a sustainable way. It simply isn&amp;#x27;t. Instead of pointing fingers at each other, the best way is to price it accordingly. The root problem is that this is not the case and it&amp;#x27;s too cheap. And it&amp;#x27;s only cheap because it comes from non renewable sources that are getting scarcer. Everybody feels entitled to the cheap water and then ends up wasting it because it is so cheap.&lt;p&gt;More expensive water leads to people taking better care of what they do with it. E.g. watering a lawn because you like it to be green should not be close to free. Especially not in what is essentially a desert (which large parts of California effectively are). That&amp;#x27;s an epic waste of water. You should have the freedom to buy that water at a fair price and waste it as you please. But it should cost you. Lawns should be an expensive hobby.&lt;p&gt;Same with toilets. There&amp;#x27;s no need to flush five gallons every time you use the toilet. Less wasteful toilets exist. And of course, farmers can learn a thing or two about farming more sustainably. But why would they when that does not save them any money?&lt;p&gt;There is no shortage of water. California borders on the largest reservoir of it on the planet (the pacific). All it needs is a little bit of desalination. Lots of other countries do this at scale; typically because it is preferable to not having clean water. This takes energy and money but it can be done sustainably. If water was priced correctly, more water would be desalinated. Instead, aquifers are drained, former lakes are turned into salt lakes, etc.</text></item><item><author>orlp</author><text>&amp;quot;Californians are being asked to reduce their water use by 15 percent over 2020 levels to protect water reserves and help maintain critical flows for fish and wildlife wherever possible.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;And by that they surely mean agriculture, right? Right? The industry responsible for 80% of the water usage in California? They &lt;i&gt;surely&lt;/i&gt; couldn&amp;#x27;t just be asking urban consumers to reduce?&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;us-news&amp;#x2F;2022&amp;#x2F;may&amp;#x2F;23&amp;#x2F;california-drought-water-restrictions-gavin-newsom&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;us-news&amp;#x2F;2022&amp;#x2F;may&amp;#x2F;23&amp;#x2F;california-d...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;Nope, it&amp;#x27;s households and small businesses.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]</title><url>https://drought.ca.gov/media/2022/05/External-CA-Drought-Weekly-Update-05232022.pdf</url></story>