<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>Spooky23</author><text>So you think it’s a good idea for employees to go to the board with a position out of sync with management and bypass the management chain?&lt;p&gt;I’ve never seen any place in business, non-profit or government where that was a scenario that would benefit the employee unless the employee was very politically savvy, was in a very senior position and had special circumstances (past relationships, etc)</text><parent_chain><item><author>csa</author><text>&amp;gt; stepping into conversations in which you have no context and no skin in the game is a real fast way to get yourself shunned because you have shared NONE of the downside but you walk in the door like you have all the answers. quite frankly, that&amp;#x27;s bullshit. and quite frankly, even if it isn&amp;#x27;t, you don&amp;#x27;t have any influence in that situation so it&amp;#x27;s irrelevant.&lt;p&gt;If you have any good investors, and at this point I somehow doubt it, this comment just made them shit in their pants and&amp;#x2F;or write off their investment in you.&lt;p&gt;I strongly encourage you to learn to listen to the folks around you carefully, especially the experienced ones. Sometimes the folks with no skin in the game are the only people who will give you an accurate picture of what’s going on.&lt;p&gt;If you are “shunning” any of your employees for any reason, then you’ve got major problems.&lt;p&gt;If you don’t think experienced (older) people don’t have at least some of the answers and treat them accordingly, then you’ve got major problems. This is true even if they don’t come in with a perfect attitude — note that attitude can usually be fixed with gentle prodding from a skilled leader.&lt;p&gt;If you think that one has to have (significant?) exposure to downsides to have any of the answers, then you’ve got major problems.&lt;p&gt;If you haven’t given your employees enough information and enough autonomy to help move your company in the right direction, then you’ve got major problems.&lt;p&gt;Best of luck... I’m afraid to say that I think you will need a healthy dose of it.</text></item><item><author>20180201</author><text>that&amp;#x27;s a very pessimistic view, and one that doesn&amp;#x27;t take into account the reality of being an executive or board member.&lt;p&gt;i&amp;#x27;m a co-founder&amp;#x2F;executive of a small technology company.  i have employees that used to be in my position when they were younger, but now they want to just do their jobs and go home.&lt;p&gt;in other words, they don&amp;#x27;t have intense, heated discussions about strategy, make firing and hiring decisions, make large spending decisions, discuss the financial bookkeeping side of the business, try to raise money from or sell to really unpleasant people, soothe angry customers and employees, because &lt;i&gt;they don&amp;#x27;t want to&lt;/i&gt;.  they don&amp;#x27;t want their work day interrupted by a bunch of anxiety-ridden executive half-conversations and rants with no real conclusions or answers.&lt;p&gt;almost none of their personal money is on the line, and very little of their potential income is on the line.  they can go and find another 100k job tomorrow, they could possibly even make MORE money at their next job just by the dumb luck of losing their current one.  did you ever think about that?&lt;p&gt;but... now here&amp;#x27;s the part you won&amp;#x27;t like: the reason you hold your opinion is because you want something more than what you have now.  and that fundamental mis-alignment is going to cause you some level of frustration, because you think of yourself as a shot caller, when you aren&amp;#x27;t (or, more specifically, don&amp;#x27;t have to be).  and when you&amp;#x27;re told what to do you get resentful, because you think you know better.  well, maybe you do, maybe you don&amp;#x27;t.  but you don&amp;#x27;t write the checks, and that&amp;#x27;s what a business is.&lt;p&gt;if you want to be involved at the upper levels, nothing is stopping you.  you just need to either find that job, or create one for yourself.&lt;p&gt;stepping into conversations in which you have no context and no skin in the game is a real fast way to get yourself shunned because you have shared NONE of the downside but you walk in the door like you have all the answers.  quite frankly, that&amp;#x27;s bullshit.  and quite frankly, even if it isn&amp;#x27;t, you don&amp;#x27;t have any influence in that situation so it&amp;#x27;s irrelevant.</text></item><item><author>sillysaurus3</author><text>This comment bothers me, but I can&amp;#x27;t quite put my finger on why. It&amp;#x27;s not you – your intentions are quite good. It&amp;#x27;s valuable information.&lt;p&gt;I think it&amp;#x27;s bothersome because it&amp;#x27;s true. And that reveals just how subservient employees actually are. If you&amp;#x27;re an employee, you&amp;#x27;re servile. It permeates everything you do, and the way you&amp;#x27;re forced to interact and think with everyone around you. But especially those above and below you.&lt;p&gt;In fact, &amp;quot;above&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;below&amp;quot; you are artificial terms. We&amp;#x27;re all people. Yet some people are more special than others.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s very hard to want to participate in such a system. But this is a personal flaw of mine.</text></item><item><author>neom</author><text>Speaking from experience.  Talking to the board when you&amp;#x27;re not a founder or on the board can be a very very delicate things and is likely to get you fired if you approach it incorrectly. I&amp;#x27;d recommend taking &lt;i&gt;one&lt;/i&gt; board member out for a coffee and really posing it as asking for advice, not asking the board to get involved. I would also advise against doing this behind the CEOs back. That being said, getting board advice can really help you see how to support the founders more meaningfully.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>The Co-Founder Relationship</title><url>http://avc.com/2018/01/the-co-founder-relationship/</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>ABCLAW</author><text>This was the impression I got from reading the post as well.&lt;p&gt;Organizations are distributed human reasoning systems. If your culture, personalities or incentives prevent people from sharing key insights, you are hampering your ability to execute.</text><parent_chain><item><author>csa</author><text>&amp;gt; stepping into conversations in which you have no context and no skin in the game is a real fast way to get yourself shunned because you have shared NONE of the downside but you walk in the door like you have all the answers. quite frankly, that&amp;#x27;s bullshit. and quite frankly, even if it isn&amp;#x27;t, you don&amp;#x27;t have any influence in that situation so it&amp;#x27;s irrelevant.&lt;p&gt;If you have any good investors, and at this point I somehow doubt it, this comment just made them shit in their pants and&amp;#x2F;or write off their investment in you.&lt;p&gt;I strongly encourage you to learn to listen to the folks around you carefully, especially the experienced ones. Sometimes the folks with no skin in the game are the only people who will give you an accurate picture of what’s going on.&lt;p&gt;If you are “shunning” any of your employees for any reason, then you’ve got major problems.&lt;p&gt;If you don’t think experienced (older) people don’t have at least some of the answers and treat them accordingly, then you’ve got major problems. This is true even if they don’t come in with a perfect attitude — note that attitude can usually be fixed with gentle prodding from a skilled leader.&lt;p&gt;If you think that one has to have (significant?) exposure to downsides to have any of the answers, then you’ve got major problems.&lt;p&gt;If you haven’t given your employees enough information and enough autonomy to help move your company in the right direction, then you’ve got major problems.&lt;p&gt;Best of luck... I’m afraid to say that I think you will need a healthy dose of it.</text></item><item><author>20180201</author><text>that&amp;#x27;s a very pessimistic view, and one that doesn&amp;#x27;t take into account the reality of being an executive or board member.&lt;p&gt;i&amp;#x27;m a co-founder&amp;#x2F;executive of a small technology company.  i have employees that used to be in my position when they were younger, but now they want to just do their jobs and go home.&lt;p&gt;in other words, they don&amp;#x27;t have intense, heated discussions about strategy, make firing and hiring decisions, make large spending decisions, discuss the financial bookkeeping side of the business, try to raise money from or sell to really unpleasant people, soothe angry customers and employees, because &lt;i&gt;they don&amp;#x27;t want to&lt;/i&gt;.  they don&amp;#x27;t want their work day interrupted by a bunch of anxiety-ridden executive half-conversations and rants with no real conclusions or answers.&lt;p&gt;almost none of their personal money is on the line, and very little of their potential income is on the line.  they can go and find another 100k job tomorrow, they could possibly even make MORE money at their next job just by the dumb luck of losing their current one.  did you ever think about that?&lt;p&gt;but... now here&amp;#x27;s the part you won&amp;#x27;t like: the reason you hold your opinion is because you want something more than what you have now.  and that fundamental mis-alignment is going to cause you some level of frustration, because you think of yourself as a shot caller, when you aren&amp;#x27;t (or, more specifically, don&amp;#x27;t have to be).  and when you&amp;#x27;re told what to do you get resentful, because you think you know better.  well, maybe you do, maybe you don&amp;#x27;t.  but you don&amp;#x27;t write the checks, and that&amp;#x27;s what a business is.&lt;p&gt;if you want to be involved at the upper levels, nothing is stopping you.  you just need to either find that job, or create one for yourself.&lt;p&gt;stepping into conversations in which you have no context and no skin in the game is a real fast way to get yourself shunned because you have shared NONE of the downside but you walk in the door like you have all the answers.  quite frankly, that&amp;#x27;s bullshit.  and quite frankly, even if it isn&amp;#x27;t, you don&amp;#x27;t have any influence in that situation so it&amp;#x27;s irrelevant.</text></item><item><author>sillysaurus3</author><text>This comment bothers me, but I can&amp;#x27;t quite put my finger on why. It&amp;#x27;s not you – your intentions are quite good. It&amp;#x27;s valuable information.&lt;p&gt;I think it&amp;#x27;s bothersome because it&amp;#x27;s true. And that reveals just how subservient employees actually are. If you&amp;#x27;re an employee, you&amp;#x27;re servile. It permeates everything you do, and the way you&amp;#x27;re forced to interact and think with everyone around you. But especially those above and below you.&lt;p&gt;In fact, &amp;quot;above&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;below&amp;quot; you are artificial terms. We&amp;#x27;re all people. Yet some people are more special than others.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s very hard to want to participate in such a system. But this is a personal flaw of mine.</text></item><item><author>neom</author><text>Speaking from experience.  Talking to the board when you&amp;#x27;re not a founder or on the board can be a very very delicate things and is likely to get you fired if you approach it incorrectly. I&amp;#x27;d recommend taking &lt;i&gt;one&lt;/i&gt; board member out for a coffee and really posing it as asking for advice, not asking the board to get involved. I would also advise against doing this behind the CEOs back. That being said, getting board advice can really help you see how to support the founders more meaningfully.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>The Co-Founder Relationship</title><url>http://avc.com/2018/01/the-co-founder-relationship/</url></story>