<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>solatic</author><text>The core plugin system is painfully broken.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s like kernel panics: if an application causes the kernel to panic, then the more fundamental bug is in the kernel, not the application. If upgrading a plugin through the UI can cause other plugins to break because of mismanaged dependencies, then that&amp;#x27;s not really a bug in the plugin, but in the plugin management scheme.&lt;p&gt;That Jenkins does not forbid administrators from upgrading through the UI plugins which are fixed dependencies of other plugins without &lt;i&gt;at least&lt;/i&gt; a warning message about the possible damage to the instance, is a critical defect, one that has gone unfixed practically since the creation of the tool. And so it is a defect which should immediately disqualify the tool from consideration in any large environment where the need to maintain critical updates (security etc.) while keeping uptime high is crucial.</text><parent_chain><item><author>piva00</author><text>The problem we are facing at my company is: we have a federated Jenkins setup where each team got their own instance and my team managing Jenkins updates, etc.&lt;p&gt;You don&amp;#x27;t know the pain we suffer from this plugin ecosystem. Installing a bunch of plugins which depends on a bunch of other stuff, there&amp;#x27;s no real dependency management for this and it&amp;#x27;s thoroughly painful when one of the teams decide to upgrade one of their plugins and break their whole setup because of it.&lt;p&gt;It has happened before even with basic plugins like &amp;quot;Git&amp;quot;, one upgrade completely broke more than 50% of our instances (we are running about 50 instances right now) because a lot of other plugins relied on it and then needed to be upgraded, these upgrades then broke other plugins which depended on them and this started a domino effect.&lt;p&gt;Also, some plugins are just released and never taken care of, we have to maintain about 10 forks of plugins because there&amp;#x27;s no curation about them.&lt;p&gt;We came to the point where Jenkins flexibility by itself is a liability.&lt;p&gt;I know that Jenkins is wonderful for smaller teams but there&amp;#x27;s a point where the lack of governance really hurts and it&amp;#x27;s the main burden about it.&lt;p&gt;But of course, that&amp;#x27;s a given for any flexibility, too much of it and you have to design boundaries to contain problems... I&amp;#x27;m just ranting because after this stint I&amp;#x27;m burned about Jenkins, to the point where I don&amp;#x27;t want ever in my life to have to work with or use it.</text></item><item><author>tokenizerrr</author><text>The point of Jenkins is the powerful plugin ecosystem. Installing a few plugins is IMO exactly how it&amp;#x27;s supposed to be and not at all a burden.</text></item><item><author>scrollaway</author><text>Hi James, good to see Blue Ocean entering GA :)&lt;p&gt;It has improved a lot since I last tried it. Although my team is moving towards Travis for everything except server deployments. Pains me to say since I especially appreciate self-hosting, but Jenkins is still massively behind in everything outside of Blue Ocean. :&amp;#x2F;&lt;p&gt;For lots of things that are now basic in all CI&amp;#x2F;CD systems (email&amp;#x2F;slack&amp;#x2F;irc notifications, github login, etc), Jenkins still requires external plugins and&amp;#x2F;or a ton of setup from the really clunky UI. It&amp;#x27;s too much :(&lt;p&gt;What&amp;#x27;s the plan to resolve this? Is blue ocean going to spread to the other areas of Jenkins?</text></item><item><author>i386</author><text>I am the leader of the Blue Ocean project - feel free to ask me anything :)&lt;p&gt;This is just the first release of what we hope to be many more in the coming weeks and months. The surface area of Jenkins is _huge_ and we may not have all your use-cases covered - please send us your feedback and feature requests by signing up to &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;issues.jenkins-ci.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;issues.jenkins-ci.org&lt;/a&gt; and submit a new issue under the &amp;#x27;blueocean-plugin&amp;#x27; component.&lt;p&gt;A few things that are coming up soon:&lt;p&gt;- Support for Github Enterprise&lt;p&gt;- Full read&amp;#x2F;write from the Visual Pipeline Editor for any Git
 repository (Github is supported today!)&lt;p&gt;- Visual Pipeline Editor feature parity with Declarative Pipeline</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>New UX for Jenkins: Blue Ocean 1.0</title><url>https://jenkins.io/blog/2017/04/05/say-hello-blueocean-1-0/#say-hello-to-blue-ocean-1-0</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>tokenizerrr</author><text>You can manage plugins by dropping jar files in the plugins folder. It sounds like you have 50 teams with their own Jenkins which they have administrative control over, leading to chaos. This doesn&amp;#x27;t surprise me. Have you considered letting your team also manage the plugins and locking them all to a specific version?</text><parent_chain><item><author>piva00</author><text>The problem we are facing at my company is: we have a federated Jenkins setup where each team got their own instance and my team managing Jenkins updates, etc.&lt;p&gt;You don&amp;#x27;t know the pain we suffer from this plugin ecosystem. Installing a bunch of plugins which depends on a bunch of other stuff, there&amp;#x27;s no real dependency management for this and it&amp;#x27;s thoroughly painful when one of the teams decide to upgrade one of their plugins and break their whole setup because of it.&lt;p&gt;It has happened before even with basic plugins like &amp;quot;Git&amp;quot;, one upgrade completely broke more than 50% of our instances (we are running about 50 instances right now) because a lot of other plugins relied on it and then needed to be upgraded, these upgrades then broke other plugins which depended on them and this started a domino effect.&lt;p&gt;Also, some plugins are just released and never taken care of, we have to maintain about 10 forks of plugins because there&amp;#x27;s no curation about them.&lt;p&gt;We came to the point where Jenkins flexibility by itself is a liability.&lt;p&gt;I know that Jenkins is wonderful for smaller teams but there&amp;#x27;s a point where the lack of governance really hurts and it&amp;#x27;s the main burden about it.&lt;p&gt;But of course, that&amp;#x27;s a given for any flexibility, too much of it and you have to design boundaries to contain problems... I&amp;#x27;m just ranting because after this stint I&amp;#x27;m burned about Jenkins, to the point where I don&amp;#x27;t want ever in my life to have to work with or use it.</text></item><item><author>tokenizerrr</author><text>The point of Jenkins is the powerful plugin ecosystem. Installing a few plugins is IMO exactly how it&amp;#x27;s supposed to be and not at all a burden.</text></item><item><author>scrollaway</author><text>Hi James, good to see Blue Ocean entering GA :)&lt;p&gt;It has improved a lot since I last tried it. Although my team is moving towards Travis for everything except server deployments. Pains me to say since I especially appreciate self-hosting, but Jenkins is still massively behind in everything outside of Blue Ocean. :&amp;#x2F;&lt;p&gt;For lots of things that are now basic in all CI&amp;#x2F;CD systems (email&amp;#x2F;slack&amp;#x2F;irc notifications, github login, etc), Jenkins still requires external plugins and&amp;#x2F;or a ton of setup from the really clunky UI. It&amp;#x27;s too much :(&lt;p&gt;What&amp;#x27;s the plan to resolve this? Is blue ocean going to spread to the other areas of Jenkins?</text></item><item><author>i386</author><text>I am the leader of the Blue Ocean project - feel free to ask me anything :)&lt;p&gt;This is just the first release of what we hope to be many more in the coming weeks and months. The surface area of Jenkins is _huge_ and we may not have all your use-cases covered - please send us your feedback and feature requests by signing up to &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;issues.jenkins-ci.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;issues.jenkins-ci.org&lt;/a&gt; and submit a new issue under the &amp;#x27;blueocean-plugin&amp;#x27; component.&lt;p&gt;A few things that are coming up soon:&lt;p&gt;- Support for Github Enterprise&lt;p&gt;- Full read&amp;#x2F;write from the Visual Pipeline Editor for any Git
 repository (Github is supported today!)&lt;p&gt;- Visual Pipeline Editor feature parity with Declarative Pipeline</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>New UX for Jenkins: Blue Ocean 1.0</title><url>https://jenkins.io/blog/2017/04/05/say-hello-blueocean-1-0/#say-hello-to-blue-ocean-1-0</url></story>