<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>bilbo0s</author><text>&amp;quot;...I can&amp;#x27;t help but notice that you (and others here) are making the mistake of equating digital art with a need for high-end graphics cards. 99% of what most digital artists consider to be &amp;quot;digital art&amp;quot; does not require state-of-the-art GPUs. Graphic design work, retouching, painting, etc. barely even scratch the surface of what the last generation of graphics cards could handle...&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;I can&amp;#x27;t help but notice that you are equating that 99% of &amp;quot;digital art&amp;quot; that can be handled by mobile graphics cards, to the 1% of &amp;quot;digital art&amp;quot; that anyone&amp;#x27;s going to actually PAY someone to produce. As I said, this is a business. If I could make the living I currently make retouching photos, then I&amp;#x27;d gladly pay $3000 for an underpowered machine...&lt;p&gt;but I can&amp;#x27;t.&lt;p&gt;because no one is going to pay us that kind of money to retouch photos are they?&lt;p&gt;Look, these machines, to a business, are INVESTMENTS. You invest for the FUTURE, not to take advantage of the past. A 1070 or 1080 is not too much to ask considering Pascal&amp;#x27;s MANIFEST superiority in efficiency. Additionally, I was being kind, I think MS should OFFER 64GB in the Surface Studio, but a 128GB option would really be necessary to future proof this thing.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;ll tell you what MS and Apple are going for here... it&amp;#x27;s a money grab. And they are setting themselves up to come back to guys like me every 18 to 24 months for another mandatory money grab instead of just giving us a 60 month machine from the outset.&lt;p&gt;Offer me a 60 month Surface Studio at the $3000 price point and I&amp;#x27;d update every workstation here. But that&amp;#x27;s not what they&amp;#x27;re offering is it?</text><parent_chain><item><author>dperfect</author><text>I think you (and a few others here) are making the mistake of equating &lt;i&gt;digital art&lt;/i&gt; with a need for high-end &lt;i&gt;graphics cards&lt;/i&gt;. 99% of what most digital artists consider to be &amp;quot;digital art&amp;quot; does not require state-of-the-art GPUs. Graphic design work, retouching, painting, etc. barely even scratch the surface of what the last generation of graphics cards could handle.&lt;p&gt;Let&amp;#x27;s call high-end graphics cards for what they really are: gaming console graphics hardware stuffed into PCs. Apart from a relatively small number of professionals who work with 3D rendering, high-end graphics cards are an even greater waste of money (unless of course you&amp;#x27;re buying the machine for gaming, which doesn&amp;#x27;t really fit the &amp;quot;digital artist&amp;quot; target of these machines).&lt;p&gt;Microsoft and Apple may still be pricing these products too high (&amp;quot;robbing you&amp;quot; as you say), but that&amp;#x27;s a separate discussion.</text></item><item><author>bilbo0s</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m a digital artist myself. I&amp;#x27;m a more goal based guy, so I use both Windows and Mac hardware and software. I know that I am probably the target market for both the Macbook Pro and the Surface Studio, but I have to say, I&amp;#x27;m not impressed. And I&amp;#x27;d argue that the only people who are would have to be Microsoft or Apple fans. Certainly not tech based artists.&lt;p&gt;First, this is a business for me. And I suspect it&amp;#x27;s a business for anyone that Apple or Microsoft expects to sell this stuff to. And having to pay $3000 for outdated hardware is a tough pill to swallow. The hardware in the Macbook &amp;quot;Pro&amp;quot; is simply inexcusable. (REALLY???? 16GB RAM MAX!?!?!?) But the hardware in the Surface Studio is equally galling. They give you an NVidia what? 965 for $3000??? And the BEST I could even POSSIBLY get would be a 980??? And for that magnanimous gesture on their part I would be obliged to pay a MINIMUM of $4100??? For LAST GENERATION graphics cards???? On a machine purportedly about graphics???? (A 1080 would run both faster AND cooler using LESS power Microsoft. And at this point in time, for a business investment 64GB of RAM should really be offered by anyone NOT trying to screw you. What&amp;#x27;s the deal Microsoft???)&lt;p&gt;I think to objective observers who were waiting for these presentations... both proved SEVERELY underwhelming considering the pent up expectations. I mean... OK... if you put a gun to my head, I&amp;#x27;ll probably buy the Surface Studio. But don&amp;#x27;t expect me to pretend that I don&amp;#x27;t know that both Microsoft and Apple are robbing me.&lt;p&gt;Sorry for the rant.</text></item><item><author>throwanem</author><text>&amp;gt; Microsoft introduced a 28&amp;quot; desktop PC&lt;p&gt;No. Microsoft introduced an entirely new &lt;i&gt;kind&lt;/i&gt; of tool for digital artists. I&amp;#x27;m not one myself, but the Surface Studio makes me wish I were. And the people I know who are, are over the moon about it. They can&amp;#x27;t &lt;i&gt;wait&lt;/i&gt; to get their hands on one.&lt;p&gt;Yes, it&amp;#x27;s Microsoft that hit it out of the park, and made Apple look amazingly weak by comparison. Today&amp;#x27;s event wouldn&amp;#x27;t have been particularly impressive even on its own. By comparison with yesterday&amp;#x27;s, it&amp;#x27;s just embarrassing.</text></item><item><author>rayiner</author><text>&amp;gt; Microsoft really hit it out of the park yesterday.&lt;p&gt;Did we watch the same event? Microsoft introduced a $3,000 desktop PC in an era when nobody uses desktops anymore. It introduced a minor update to the Surface Book that &lt;i&gt;starts&lt;/i&gt; at $2,300 with dual-core CPU, only 8GB of RAM, and last-gen graphics hardware.&lt;p&gt;For the same price as the new Surface Book i7, I can get an MBP 15&amp;quot; with bigger screen, twice the RAM, and a quad-core CPU, and it&amp;#x27;s &lt;i&gt;Microsoft&lt;/i&gt; that hit it out of the park?!</text></item><item><author>npgatech</author><text>This event was by far the most disappointing Mac event in the history. A lot of the time was wasted in:&lt;p&gt;- Mildly funny jokes and comparison with 90&amp;#x27;s technology.&lt;p&gt;- 90% of the talk was about the touch bar.&lt;p&gt;- Awful demos of Photoshop &amp;amp; some cringy DJ.&lt;p&gt;I was hoping we would see:&lt;p&gt;- A new MacBook with all day battery life and touch bar, even thinner design. Ok, I understand that they are trying to consolidate their product line but the category of a web-browsing machine that is 12&amp;quot;, super small design and an adequate processor is left without any update.&lt;p&gt;- A MacBook pro with some real innovation. They could just copy Microsoft with a detachable screen (oh but they would cannibalize iPad market), pen input, touch screen. But, instead we get this touchbar thing which is great but I am just disappointed that it is the only thing they have innovated here.&lt;p&gt;- Killed Macbook Air.&lt;p&gt;- No iMac update (!!!).&lt;p&gt;- No monitor announcement.&lt;p&gt;Microsoft really hit it out of the park yesterday. Apple&amp;#x27;s entire presentation felt like they are trying to fill the 1.5 hours of time with bullshit.&lt;p&gt;Also, Panos Panay sounds like a genuine, authentic, passionate and knowledgeable whereas Jony Ive sounds like an Evangelical designer who feels &amp;quot;fake&amp;quot;. I don&amp;#x27;t know how to explain it.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>MacBook Pro</title><url>http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>ixtli</author><text>The stats for the Cintiq Companion 2 are in the same ballpark and, from personal use, the thing has a hard time providing smooth UI when editing very large photoshop, illustrator, or unity projects.&lt;p&gt;I think you&amp;#x27;re right that artists largely don&amp;#x27;t need what high end gaming PCs might require to play the newest steam titles at full graphics settings, but for what Microsoft is asking here, they do at least need enough GPU&amp;#x2F;CPU strength to have a very responsive UI when editing very large and complex graphical projects at 2560 x 1600 and beyond.&lt;p&gt;My worry about the Surface is simply that the minority report-style advertisement isn&amp;#x27;t really possible with a real-world PSD or 3dsmax scene.</text><parent_chain><item><author>dperfect</author><text>I think you (and a few others here) are making the mistake of equating &lt;i&gt;digital art&lt;/i&gt; with a need for high-end &lt;i&gt;graphics cards&lt;/i&gt;. 99% of what most digital artists consider to be &amp;quot;digital art&amp;quot; does not require state-of-the-art GPUs. Graphic design work, retouching, painting, etc. barely even scratch the surface of what the last generation of graphics cards could handle.&lt;p&gt;Let&amp;#x27;s call high-end graphics cards for what they really are: gaming console graphics hardware stuffed into PCs. Apart from a relatively small number of professionals who work with 3D rendering, high-end graphics cards are an even greater waste of money (unless of course you&amp;#x27;re buying the machine for gaming, which doesn&amp;#x27;t really fit the &amp;quot;digital artist&amp;quot; target of these machines).&lt;p&gt;Microsoft and Apple may still be pricing these products too high (&amp;quot;robbing you&amp;quot; as you say), but that&amp;#x27;s a separate discussion.</text></item><item><author>bilbo0s</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m a digital artist myself. I&amp;#x27;m a more goal based guy, so I use both Windows and Mac hardware and software. I know that I am probably the target market for both the Macbook Pro and the Surface Studio, but I have to say, I&amp;#x27;m not impressed. And I&amp;#x27;d argue that the only people who are would have to be Microsoft or Apple fans. Certainly not tech based artists.&lt;p&gt;First, this is a business for me. And I suspect it&amp;#x27;s a business for anyone that Apple or Microsoft expects to sell this stuff to. And having to pay $3000 for outdated hardware is a tough pill to swallow. The hardware in the Macbook &amp;quot;Pro&amp;quot; is simply inexcusable. (REALLY???? 16GB RAM MAX!?!?!?) But the hardware in the Surface Studio is equally galling. They give you an NVidia what? 965 for $3000??? And the BEST I could even POSSIBLY get would be a 980??? And for that magnanimous gesture on their part I would be obliged to pay a MINIMUM of $4100??? For LAST GENERATION graphics cards???? On a machine purportedly about graphics???? (A 1080 would run both faster AND cooler using LESS power Microsoft. And at this point in time, for a business investment 64GB of RAM should really be offered by anyone NOT trying to screw you. What&amp;#x27;s the deal Microsoft???)&lt;p&gt;I think to objective observers who were waiting for these presentations... both proved SEVERELY underwhelming considering the pent up expectations. I mean... OK... if you put a gun to my head, I&amp;#x27;ll probably buy the Surface Studio. But don&amp;#x27;t expect me to pretend that I don&amp;#x27;t know that both Microsoft and Apple are robbing me.&lt;p&gt;Sorry for the rant.</text></item><item><author>throwanem</author><text>&amp;gt; Microsoft introduced a 28&amp;quot; desktop PC&lt;p&gt;No. Microsoft introduced an entirely new &lt;i&gt;kind&lt;/i&gt; of tool for digital artists. I&amp;#x27;m not one myself, but the Surface Studio makes me wish I were. And the people I know who are, are over the moon about it. They can&amp;#x27;t &lt;i&gt;wait&lt;/i&gt; to get their hands on one.&lt;p&gt;Yes, it&amp;#x27;s Microsoft that hit it out of the park, and made Apple look amazingly weak by comparison. Today&amp;#x27;s event wouldn&amp;#x27;t have been particularly impressive even on its own. By comparison with yesterday&amp;#x27;s, it&amp;#x27;s just embarrassing.</text></item><item><author>rayiner</author><text>&amp;gt; Microsoft really hit it out of the park yesterday.&lt;p&gt;Did we watch the same event? Microsoft introduced a $3,000 desktop PC in an era when nobody uses desktops anymore. It introduced a minor update to the Surface Book that &lt;i&gt;starts&lt;/i&gt; at $2,300 with dual-core CPU, only 8GB of RAM, and last-gen graphics hardware.&lt;p&gt;For the same price as the new Surface Book i7, I can get an MBP 15&amp;quot; with bigger screen, twice the RAM, and a quad-core CPU, and it&amp;#x27;s &lt;i&gt;Microsoft&lt;/i&gt; that hit it out of the park?!</text></item><item><author>npgatech</author><text>This event was by far the most disappointing Mac event in the history. A lot of the time was wasted in:&lt;p&gt;- Mildly funny jokes and comparison with 90&amp;#x27;s technology.&lt;p&gt;- 90% of the talk was about the touch bar.&lt;p&gt;- Awful demos of Photoshop &amp;amp; some cringy DJ.&lt;p&gt;I was hoping we would see:&lt;p&gt;- A new MacBook with all day battery life and touch bar, even thinner design. Ok, I understand that they are trying to consolidate their product line but the category of a web-browsing machine that is 12&amp;quot;, super small design and an adequate processor is left without any update.&lt;p&gt;- A MacBook pro with some real innovation. They could just copy Microsoft with a detachable screen (oh but they would cannibalize iPad market), pen input, touch screen. But, instead we get this touchbar thing which is great but I am just disappointed that it is the only thing they have innovated here.&lt;p&gt;- Killed Macbook Air.&lt;p&gt;- No iMac update (!!!).&lt;p&gt;- No monitor announcement.&lt;p&gt;Microsoft really hit it out of the park yesterday. Apple&amp;#x27;s entire presentation felt like they are trying to fill the 1.5 hours of time with bullshit.&lt;p&gt;Also, Panos Panay sounds like a genuine, authentic, passionate and knowledgeable whereas Jony Ive sounds like an Evangelical designer who feels &amp;quot;fake&amp;quot;. I don&amp;#x27;t know how to explain it.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>MacBook Pro</title><url>http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/</url></story>