<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>yuri91</author><text>But your public transport is not great, really.
It is pretty expensive, to the point that renting a car is cheaper than taking the train if you are 2 people.
And trains are painfully slow too.
Public transport inside cities is better (but still expensive), but less needed because biking infrastructure is really really good.</text><parent_chain><item><author>sfvisser</author><text>Not all car usage is a problem.&lt;p&gt;I’m from the Netherlands which is incredibly bicycle friendly. Small country, highly urban, great cycling infra, great public transport, nearly everyone walks or cycles whenever it makes sense.&lt;p&gt;Still, cars are everywhere. There are just tons of trips where the alternative doesn’t really make sense.&lt;p&gt;Municipalities try everything to make the life of car owners miserable to force them into using alternatives. The only outcome is miserable drivers. They are in the car for a reason and won’t just switch.</text></item><item><author>sudosysgen</author><text>Sorry, no. Cars are the problem. The reason why other transit modes are a solution isn&amp;#x27;t because they in particular are the best option, generally it&amp;#x27;s because they aren&amp;#x27;t cars.&lt;p&gt;Cars aren&amp;#x27;t individual choices. They are a societal choice that costs a trillion dollars a year to make work. The issue is cars. No matter which way you slice it, we need to remove cars, and that will necessarily mean making driving a car worse.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t think that hiding your goals or intentions is politically a good option. Don&amp;#x27;t argue something you don&amp;#x27;t believe in. If you (correctly) identify that cars and car-supporting infrastructure is one of the biggest problems in North America, you have to call it like it is.&lt;p&gt;We don&amp;#x27;t actually want &lt;i&gt;other options&lt;/i&gt;. We want &lt;i&gt;better other options&lt;/i&gt;. The only way to get that is to de-incentivize cars. That&amp;#x27;s the reason why cars suck to begin with, the proliferation of cars makes every other mode of transport worse, except for inter-city rail, if only by sheer mass effect.&lt;p&gt;Now I agree that we shouldn&amp;#x27;t other people by putting them in categories and identifying them with the car. That doesn&amp;#x27;t mean that we stop opposing the real policies that make cars a good personal option and counter them with policies that make alternatives better, generally at their expense in some way or another. I agree that inter-personally the matter can be approached better, but that does not carry to changing your policy positions or goals, and that should never justify lying about what those are.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Don&apos;t Be Anti Car. Be Pro Something Else.</title><url>https://www.eclogiselle.com/2021/07/the-hot-new-thing.html</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>lucideer</author><text>&amp;gt; &lt;i&gt;Still, cars are everywhere.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t think cars will ever disappear, they&amp;#x27;re useful in many ways. But saying &amp;quot;cars are everywhere&amp;quot; in NL seems a bit of an overstatement, no? Cars are so much less dominant in NL than in other European countries (even Denmark).&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;i&gt;try everything to make the life of car owners miserable&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Are they miserable because of inherent challenges of car ownership that other countries try to mitigate or is it really municipalities actively causing their misery?</text><parent_chain><item><author>sfvisser</author><text>Not all car usage is a problem.&lt;p&gt;I’m from the Netherlands which is incredibly bicycle friendly. Small country, highly urban, great cycling infra, great public transport, nearly everyone walks or cycles whenever it makes sense.&lt;p&gt;Still, cars are everywhere. There are just tons of trips where the alternative doesn’t really make sense.&lt;p&gt;Municipalities try everything to make the life of car owners miserable to force them into using alternatives. The only outcome is miserable drivers. They are in the car for a reason and won’t just switch.</text></item><item><author>sudosysgen</author><text>Sorry, no. Cars are the problem. The reason why other transit modes are a solution isn&amp;#x27;t because they in particular are the best option, generally it&amp;#x27;s because they aren&amp;#x27;t cars.&lt;p&gt;Cars aren&amp;#x27;t individual choices. They are a societal choice that costs a trillion dollars a year to make work. The issue is cars. No matter which way you slice it, we need to remove cars, and that will necessarily mean making driving a car worse.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t think that hiding your goals or intentions is politically a good option. Don&amp;#x27;t argue something you don&amp;#x27;t believe in. If you (correctly) identify that cars and car-supporting infrastructure is one of the biggest problems in North America, you have to call it like it is.&lt;p&gt;We don&amp;#x27;t actually want &lt;i&gt;other options&lt;/i&gt;. We want &lt;i&gt;better other options&lt;/i&gt;. The only way to get that is to de-incentivize cars. That&amp;#x27;s the reason why cars suck to begin with, the proliferation of cars makes every other mode of transport worse, except for inter-city rail, if only by sheer mass effect.&lt;p&gt;Now I agree that we shouldn&amp;#x27;t other people by putting them in categories and identifying them with the car. That doesn&amp;#x27;t mean that we stop opposing the real policies that make cars a good personal option and counter them with policies that make alternatives better, generally at their expense in some way or another. I agree that inter-personally the matter can be approached better, but that does not carry to changing your policy positions or goals, and that should never justify lying about what those are.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Don&apos;t Be Anti Car. Be Pro Something Else.</title><url>https://www.eclogiselle.com/2021/07/the-hot-new-thing.html</url></story>