<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>loup-vaillant</author><text>&amp;gt; &lt;i&gt;[…] managers […] should be trained to respect opinions of subordinates.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;That&amp;#x27;s your problem right there: the subordinacy of engineers.&lt;p&gt;We are biased to listen to high-status people more than low-status people. The strength of this bias varies from people to people, and from culture to culture.  But if you are asking someone to listen to the opinion of a direct subordinate, you are asking for trouble.&lt;p&gt;This is one reason why Michael O. Church is so big on guilds, or &amp;quot;professions&amp;quot;.  If instead of being a subordinate, the engineer was a (possibly certified) master craftsman, things would be different.  Just picture the manager calling the the engineer &amp;quot;master&amp;quot;, then &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; listen to her opinion.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;i&gt;[…] engineers […] should be trained in how to negotiate with management&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Conversely, it&amp;#x27;s harder to negotiate when you have lower status than the manager.  You may feel it is not your place.  But if you&amp;#x27;re a master programmer, offering your services to said manager, then you could feel more confident about talking to him as a peer.  You could feel more confident about saying things like &amp;quot;your idea won&amp;#x27;t work —trust me, it&amp;#x27;s my speciality.&amp;quot;</text><parent_chain><item><author>lovelearning</author><text>I feel the root cause here is the culture of setting hard deadlines by management.&lt;p&gt;Getting a deadline moved even for logical reasons involves pushing against massive internal red tape. Missing a deadline invites greater punishment from management than compromising on quality. Naturally, quality loses out.&lt;p&gt;Happens all the time in our own industry, and sadly, this case shows that it happens even in safety critical industries.&lt;p&gt;All engineers, regardless of industry, should be trained in how to negotiate with management. All managers, regardless of industry, should be trained to respect opinions of subordinates.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>How a lawyer, mechanic, and engineer blew open an auto scandal</title><url>http://pando.com/2014/10/18/gms-hit-and-run-how-a-lawyer-mechanic-and-engineer-blew-the-lid-off-the-worst-auto-scandal-in-history/</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>amirmc</author><text>That almost sounds like you&amp;#x27;re absolving the engineers (as though they can do no wrong). Changing a part, without also changing it&amp;#x27;s part-number, doesn&amp;#x27;t sound like a normal thing to do (and then forget about).&lt;p&gt;This is a complex issue and I do not agree with the (over-simplistic) reduction to &amp;#x27;management&amp;#x27; and &amp;#x27;deadlines&amp;#x27;.</text><parent_chain><item><author>lovelearning</author><text>I feel the root cause here is the culture of setting hard deadlines by management.&lt;p&gt;Getting a deadline moved even for logical reasons involves pushing against massive internal red tape. Missing a deadline invites greater punishment from management than compromising on quality. Naturally, quality loses out.&lt;p&gt;Happens all the time in our own industry, and sadly, this case shows that it happens even in safety critical industries.&lt;p&gt;All engineers, regardless of industry, should be trained in how to negotiate with management. All managers, regardless of industry, should be trained to respect opinions of subordinates.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>How a lawyer, mechanic, and engineer blew open an auto scandal</title><url>http://pando.com/2014/10/18/gms-hit-and-run-how-a-lawyer-mechanic-and-engineer-blew-the-lid-off-the-worst-auto-scandal-in-history/</url></story>