<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>mgechev</author><text>Angular team member here :)&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;our bundle size hasn&amp;#x27;t moved or increased slightly&lt;p&gt;Please make sure you are using the latest version of our compiler and runtime. Many developers observed significant improvements after the v9 release. Here&amp;#x27;s just one [example](&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=22260864&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&amp;#x2F;item?id=22260864&lt;/a&gt;).&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;Every ngconf there&amp;#x27;s talk of the magical 2kb hello-world&lt;p&gt;Currently, it&amp;#x27;s absolutely doable to get very small bundle size (&amp;lt;7-8KB) for a hello-world application. This, however, relies on private APIs. We haven&amp;#x27;t made them public yet, because not many folks are building hello world apps, but in the future we&amp;#x27;ll be exploring how to reduce the footprints of the framework even further for smaller apps.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;We&amp;#x27;re currently at 2mb main&amp;#x2F;vendor after spending A LOT of time optimising and making everything lazy&lt;p&gt;It is shocking for me that you&amp;#x27;re spending that much effort on optimizing your app, but you can&amp;#x27;t get your bundle below 2MB. I&amp;#x27;m spending large chunk of my time looking into apps and thinking how to make them smaller &amp;amp; faster. I&amp;#x27;ll be more than happy to connect and brainstorm the same for your case. Please reach out to me on my hackernews username @google.com&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;Every year I install the VSC Language Service plugin and have to disable it the same day due to it continuously crashing and killing the editor so it seems we&amp;#x27;ll never get to benefit from that.&lt;p&gt;Sorry to hear you had such an experience with the language service. If it keeps crashing, definitely report the problem here &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;github.com&amp;#x2F;angular&amp;#x2F;angular&amp;#x2F;issues&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;github.com&amp;#x2F;angular&amp;#x2F;angular&amp;#x2F;issues&lt;/a&gt;. We&amp;#x27;ll be very thankful if you share reproduction steps.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;Then I see a continuous stream of core developers leaving the Angular project due to toxic behaviour from Igor and it feels hopeless and depressing.&lt;p&gt;Folks leave and and others join. I can&amp;#x27;t comment on my co-workers experiences, but after 2 years working on Angular I haven&amp;#x27;t experienced any of the behavior you&amp;#x27;re referring to.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt;The one saving grace is that the entire ecosystem is written in TypeScript and it&amp;#x27;s nice seeing everything typed to perfection.&lt;p&gt;Oh, I wish everything was that perfectly typed :). This is something the team and the community is constantly working on, but we still have a long way to go until we reach perfection.</text><parent_chain><item><author>intellix</author><text>Been using Angular.js and 2+ exclusively for almost a decade now. Keep reading how the compiler allows static type checking and superior tree-shaking at build time but I&amp;#x27;m just not seeing any sort of fruition after years of promises.&lt;p&gt;Every ngconf there&amp;#x27;s talk of the magical 2kb hello-world and bundle improvements with every major, yet the only bundles getting reductions are the hello-worlds and monster projects.&lt;p&gt;It seems we&amp;#x27;re in the medium bundle category and it&amp;#x27;s just disappointing that every version our bundle size hasn&amp;#x27;t moved or increased slightly.&lt;p&gt;We&amp;#x27;re currently at 2mb main&amp;#x2F;vendor after spending A LOT of time optimising and making everything lazy and then a team of 1 at our sister company release a Next.JS&amp;#x2F;React app with a main bundle about 1.3mb than ours using zero effort.&lt;p&gt;There&amp;#x27;s never anything obvious when it comes to analysing the bundle and it seems we&amp;#x27;re using everything we need: Angular, Material, RxJS, ApolloClient. Most of our forms use Formly (huge savings from repeated HTML)&lt;p&gt;All of our competitors are running React and have bundles about 1mb smaller than ours.&lt;p&gt;Every year I install the VSC Language Service plugin and have to disable it the same day due to it continuously crashing and killing the editor so it seems we&amp;#x27;ll never get to benefit from that.&lt;p&gt;Then I see a continuous stream of core developers leaving the Angular project due to toxic behaviour from Igor and it feels hopeless and depressing.&lt;p&gt;The one saving grace is that the entire ecosystem is written in TypeScript and it&amp;#x27;s nice seeing everything typed to perfection.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Angular 11</title><url>https://blog.angular.io/version-11-of-angular-now-available-74721b7952f7</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>acoard</author><text>This has largely been my experience too.&lt;p&gt;I was development lead for an angular shop.  We did all the government Ministry of Health forms in Angular, millions of residents would use our forms every year.  Our frontend team I lead fluctuated from 5-8 people over the years.  We had to work on basically every device, making sure it&amp;#x27;d work on IE11 and for blind users running screen readers is something we&amp;#x27;d do every single release.  I say this not to brag, but just to say I lived and breathed angular for years, I was hired as the &amp;quot;angular guy&amp;quot;, and I even wrote an npm-publiished library of re-usable components specifically to match Ministry of Health forms.&lt;p&gt;My opinion of the Angular team and their stewardship of the project had ranged from mildly impressed, to disappointed, to alarmed. They frequently missed their own targets, the big one being Ivy, their compiler, which got pushed back 2 full releases and was constantly plagued by issues.  (I left that job right as Ivy was released.  Is anyone using it?  Has it been a success?)&lt;p&gt;Like you, I saw the Angular team constantly speaking to compiler optimizations, but never once saw those benefits manifest.  To be honest, it just felt like they were using the typescript compiler (tsc). I never saw any performance benefits over tsc.  In fact, now using React&amp;#x2F;tsc&amp;#x2F;webpack, I feel like the compiler is more configurable and powerful.&lt;p&gt;In around 3 years of Angular updates the only feature we really used was the improved lazy loading of modules.  I also used a  bit of their codegen stuff (&amp;quot;Schematics&amp;quot;), which was promising but incomplete.  Even though they were in release notes at the time, they lacked documentation and seemed like the team was bragging about features that weren&amp;#x27;t ready for light of day[0].  In the same timespan (~2016-Jan 2020), React got: server side rendering, pure components, hooks,  profiling tools, improved lazy loading, and many _measurable performance increases that benefited projects across the board_[1].&lt;p&gt;Also, the Angular team began to increasingly focus on Material integration.  We were a Bootstrap shop (ministry, at the time, required bootstrap styling).  It was disappointing to see all those updates and know we couldn&amp;#x27;t use them.&lt;p&gt;I will say that generally speaking Angular&amp;#x27;s opinionated, more enterprise-y approach to frontend absolutely has a place.  For certain workplaces, like my former big corp one, having an opinionated enterprise-y language made onboarding easier and devs more consistent.  The most disruptive devs we had were hotshot react devs who wanted to make  our Angular code base look like their flavour of  React.  I use React now, and love it, but there are pros and cons to having an opinionated framework&amp;#x2F;library (not having that fight).&lt;p&gt;And worst of all, the team itself seems to be imploding and toxic as you&amp;#x27;ve alluded to.&lt;p&gt;I left that job for other reasons, but I&amp;#x27;m glad I&amp;#x27;m working with React and Vue more heavily now.&lt;p&gt;[0] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;medium.com&amp;#x2F;@lifenshades&amp;#x2F;difference-among-angular-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-breakdown-new-features-and-changes-811fb5f8e6f0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;medium.com&amp;#x2F;@lifenshades&amp;#x2F;difference-among-angular-8-7...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;React_(web_framework)#History&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&amp;#x2F;wiki&amp;#x2F;React_(web_framework)#History&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;edit: The other great part about the Angular community is it&amp;#x27;s TS first.  I miss that about React&amp;#x2F;Vue.</text><parent_chain><item><author>intellix</author><text>Been using Angular.js and 2+ exclusively for almost a decade now. Keep reading how the compiler allows static type checking and superior tree-shaking at build time but I&amp;#x27;m just not seeing any sort of fruition after years of promises.&lt;p&gt;Every ngconf there&amp;#x27;s talk of the magical 2kb hello-world and bundle improvements with every major, yet the only bundles getting reductions are the hello-worlds and monster projects.&lt;p&gt;It seems we&amp;#x27;re in the medium bundle category and it&amp;#x27;s just disappointing that every version our bundle size hasn&amp;#x27;t moved or increased slightly.&lt;p&gt;We&amp;#x27;re currently at 2mb main&amp;#x2F;vendor after spending A LOT of time optimising and making everything lazy and then a team of 1 at our sister company release a Next.JS&amp;#x2F;React app with a main bundle about 1.3mb than ours using zero effort.&lt;p&gt;There&amp;#x27;s never anything obvious when it comes to analysing the bundle and it seems we&amp;#x27;re using everything we need: Angular, Material, RxJS, ApolloClient. Most of our forms use Formly (huge savings from repeated HTML)&lt;p&gt;All of our competitors are running React and have bundles about 1mb smaller than ours.&lt;p&gt;Every year I install the VSC Language Service plugin and have to disable it the same day due to it continuously crashing and killing the editor so it seems we&amp;#x27;ll never get to benefit from that.&lt;p&gt;Then I see a continuous stream of core developers leaving the Angular project due to toxic behaviour from Igor and it feels hopeless and depressing.&lt;p&gt;The one saving grace is that the entire ecosystem is written in TypeScript and it&amp;#x27;s nice seeing everything typed to perfection.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Angular 11</title><url>https://blog.angular.io/version-11-of-angular-now-available-74721b7952f7</url></story>