<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>pavlov</author><text>This.&lt;p&gt;If the PERM process at Apple is anything like what I saw at Facebook a couple of years ago, then all these “applicants” are actually people already working at the company on non-immigrant visas whom the company wants to retain.&lt;p&gt;There is no reason to assume that they’re being paid any less than others at Apple. They’re already in the country and have been doing the work for years. Why not give them a path to a green card? Why make the company jump through hoops like having to advertise a position that’s not actually open?&lt;p&gt;I’ll admit that I’m biased because I was in this process at one point. But the notion that I was taking the job of a native-born American was ridiculous because I had been doing the job in London before. So if anything, I brought a UK job to USA. And to turn that into a green card, the company would have to advertise the job on their website. It makes no sense.</text><parent_chain><item><author>tomohelix</author><text>Reading into the press release, there is a distinction that probably escapes most native citizens here: they are talking about EB2 visa, not H1B. PERM certification is not the same labor certification done in H1B.&lt;p&gt;PERM is a much more rigorous and demanding process and it costs a lot more money than anything related to H1B. The reason is because it leads to a green card, not just a work permit. Often, it requires an advance degree and higher qualification than H1B too, PhDs or experienced masters. The money is paid upfront and USCIS then look into it and approves PERM on a case by case basis often taking a year or more. Then when the PERM passes, the applicant can finally get on the green card backlog and wait a few more years, or a decade if you were born in the wrong place...&lt;p&gt;This is to say the quality of applicants here is very high and Apple actually felt it was worth it to invest tens of thousands of dollars on each of them just for a green card gamble, which the employee can get then quit Apple immediately after and nothing can be done to them because they are now a permanent resident. No such thing as wage depression or abuse at this point because they are for all legal purposes, an equal to any American once they have EB2.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says</title><url>https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/11/apple-discriminated-against-us-citizens-in-hiring-doj-says/</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>dfadsadsf</author><text>You are writing like we are talking about rocket scientists.&lt;p&gt;PERM applies to both EB2 and EB3 (so in real world anyone making from as low as $50k+&amp;#x2F;year depending on role qualifies) and most bodyshops apply for green card for all employees - it&amp;#x27;s just part of business cost. For EB2 PhD is not needed - MS from online paper mill is enough. For EB3, any degree works.&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s not tens of thousands in cost - it&amp;#x27;s below $10k all in. PERM Fees to USCIS are around $1200.&lt;p&gt;The whole system is abused to the end and need to be completely gutted and redone so high end engineer working for Google making $700k was differentiated from Wipro employee making $80k. Right now they are in the same queue. Prevailing wage is a joke as it does not include stock options and does not reflect real salary levels.</text><parent_chain><item><author>tomohelix</author><text>Reading into the press release, there is a distinction that probably escapes most native citizens here: they are talking about EB2 visa, not H1B. PERM certification is not the same labor certification done in H1B.&lt;p&gt;PERM is a much more rigorous and demanding process and it costs a lot more money than anything related to H1B. The reason is because it leads to a green card, not just a work permit. Often, it requires an advance degree and higher qualification than H1B too, PhDs or experienced masters. The money is paid upfront and USCIS then look into it and approves PERM on a case by case basis often taking a year or more. Then when the PERM passes, the applicant can finally get on the green card backlog and wait a few more years, or a decade if you were born in the wrong place...&lt;p&gt;This is to say the quality of applicants here is very high and Apple actually felt it was worth it to invest tens of thousands of dollars on each of them just for a green card gamble, which the employee can get then quit Apple immediately after and nothing can be done to them because they are now a permanent resident. No such thing as wage depression or abuse at this point because they are for all legal purposes, an equal to any American once they have EB2.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says</title><url>https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/11/apple-discriminated-against-us-citizens-in-hiring-doj-says/</url></story>