<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>Aurornis</author><text>I’ve heard this same argument for DEI statements every time the topic has been debated: They sidestep arguments about DEI statements and instead retreat to safer arguments about how advancing DEI is a good thing.&lt;p&gt;On one hand, I get it. Arguing for DEI in an abstract sense is much easier than arguing for specific interventions.&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, this is the textbook example of a Motte-and-bailey fallacy, where the debater conflates two topics and then retreats to the safer position while hoping that the audience will accept it as an argument for the more difficult position.&lt;p&gt;DEI statements have been quite unpopular as specific interventions, as noted in the article by the way that the majority of staff disagreed with them when polled privately. However, speaking out against them publicly was viewed as a very risky move and serious career mistake, so they slowly slipped into mainstream acceptance.&lt;p&gt;It’s interesting to see how they’re now quietly being removed from processes with as little attention as possible. Nobody wants to be known as the person who campaigned against them publicly, but I suspect there are a lot of people feeling relief in this case as they’re being quietly removed from the process.</text><parent_chain><item><author>gruez</author><text>&amp;gt;but is there anyone that actually defends these DEI statements with a coherent argument, or can you point me to one online&lt;p&gt;There was a recent debate on this[1] and even the debater for the pro DEI statement side (that they could find) admitted that DEI statements that were just ideological pledges were wrong, and he was only in favor of statements about concrete things you did to advance the DEI agenda (eg. &amp;quot;I did a, b, and c in my previous position to enhance DEI in my department&amp;quot;). He argued that was justified because DEI (at least the principles, not necessarily the specific policies like affirmative action or whatever) were ostensibly things that the university cares about, and therefore they were fair game to ask for.&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;opentodebate.org&amp;#x2F;debate&amp;#x2F;are-dei-mandates-for-university-faculties-a-bad-idea&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;opentodebate.org&amp;#x2F;debate&amp;#x2F;are-dei-mandates-for-univers...&lt;/a&gt; (it&amp;#x27;s a podcast but there&amp;#x27;s a transcript tab on the page)</text></item><item><author>hn_throwaway_99</author><text>In the spirit of trying to learn something from the community: while I can certainly understand the rationale and goals behind DEI programs (many of which I agree with, others not), I honestly can&amp;#x27;t understand these &amp;quot;DEI statements&amp;quot; at all. They always seemed very &amp;quot;1984&amp;quot; to me, and almost designed to engender resentment in a way that would ultimately backfire. So perhaps I&amp;#x27;m in a like-minded echo chamber, but is there &lt;i&gt;anyone&lt;/i&gt; that actually defends these DEI statements with a coherent argument, or can you point me to one online? If so, I&amp;#x27;d honestly love to hear it, and I mean this quite genuinely. I did some googling beforehand and found loads of &amp;quot;how to write a good DEI statement&amp;quot; articles, but literally every single one of them just took it at face value that these were a good thing to begin with (or, perhaps in their defense, that &amp;quot;academic jobs require it&amp;quot;, so you better learn how to write one in any case).</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions</title><url>https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2024/05/04/mit-abandons-use-of-dei-statements/</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>spacemanspiff01</author><text>Would it make more sense to have a generic statement, where one could do more dei side or it could be reaching out to undergraduates.&lt;p&gt;Basically, a &amp;quot;aside from your teaching and research ability, what have you done to improve your campus that would make us want to hire you&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;It&amp;#x27;s much more ambiguous, on what is valuable.&lt;p&gt;(I have no idea what the hiring process is like, just a random thoughts)</text><parent_chain><item><author>gruez</author><text>&amp;gt;but is there anyone that actually defends these DEI statements with a coherent argument, or can you point me to one online&lt;p&gt;There was a recent debate on this[1] and even the debater for the pro DEI statement side (that they could find) admitted that DEI statements that were just ideological pledges were wrong, and he was only in favor of statements about concrete things you did to advance the DEI agenda (eg. &amp;quot;I did a, b, and c in my previous position to enhance DEI in my department&amp;quot;). He argued that was justified because DEI (at least the principles, not necessarily the specific policies like affirmative action or whatever) were ostensibly things that the university cares about, and therefore they were fair game to ask for.&lt;p&gt;[1] &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;opentodebate.org&amp;#x2F;debate&amp;#x2F;are-dei-mandates-for-university-faculties-a-bad-idea&amp;#x2F;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;opentodebate.org&amp;#x2F;debate&amp;#x2F;are-dei-mandates-for-univers...&lt;/a&gt; (it&amp;#x27;s a podcast but there&amp;#x27;s a transcript tab on the page)</text></item><item><author>hn_throwaway_99</author><text>In the spirit of trying to learn something from the community: while I can certainly understand the rationale and goals behind DEI programs (many of which I agree with, others not), I honestly can&amp;#x27;t understand these &amp;quot;DEI statements&amp;quot; at all. They always seemed very &amp;quot;1984&amp;quot; to me, and almost designed to engender resentment in a way that would ultimately backfire. So perhaps I&amp;#x27;m in a like-minded echo chamber, but is there &lt;i&gt;anyone&lt;/i&gt; that actually defends these DEI statements with a coherent argument, or can you point me to one online? If so, I&amp;#x27;d honestly love to hear it, and I mean this quite genuinely. I did some googling beforehand and found loads of &amp;quot;how to write a good DEI statement&amp;quot; articles, but literally every single one of them just took it at face value that these were a good thing to begin with (or, perhaps in their defense, that &amp;quot;academic jobs require it&amp;quot;, so you better learn how to write one in any case).</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions</title><url>https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2024/05/04/mit-abandons-use-of-dei-statements/</url></story>