<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>jlmorton</author><text>&amp;gt; Containing and minimizing the effects of a pandemic is just one aspect of what we might call a civilized attitude towards human life. Conversely, not doing so is uncivilized and I might add immoral and irresponsible.&lt;p&gt;The reality is that everyone is prepared to allow others to die for their own convenience.  I intentionally phrased that harshly, but it is indisputably true.  In the US, 70,000 people died from the influenza season of 2018-2019.  We could have sharply reduced that through quarantine measures.  But no one wants to do that.&lt;p&gt;Once you accept that everyone is prepared to allow others to die preventable deaths for their own convenience, then all you are talking about is a matter of degree.  It can&amp;#x27;t be immoral to believe 1 death is okay, but 2 is wrong.  That&amp;#x27;s just an opinion.  The only difference between believing 70,000 is okay, and 700,000 is not is a gut feeling about how much preventable death is worth it to maintain our living standards.</text><parent_chain><item><author>leto_ii</author><text>&amp;gt; In an average year, 13&amp;#x2F;1000 Swedes die anyway.&lt;p&gt;Yes, people die. That&amp;#x27;s true of all countries and all times. What we might call civilized societies have however strived to reduce those numbers as much as possible. This was done by trying to avoid violence, improving lifestyles and developing better medical techniques in order to prevent or repair diseases and injuries.&lt;p&gt;Containing and minimizing the effects of a pandemic is just one aspect of what we might call a civilized attitude towards human life. Conversely, not doing so is uncivilized and I might add immoral and irresponsible.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; there will be an entire generation of people who have effectively &amp;quot;lost&amp;quot; a year of the things they hoped they would do in their lifetime&lt;p&gt;This almost doesn&amp;#x27;t merit a reply. A few months of not going to festivals and the cinema is by no measure a catastrophe. It&amp;#x27;s not fun, but suggesting that your right to fun should trump others&amp;#x27; right to life is, again, uncivilized, immoral and irresponsible.</text></item><item><author>londons_explore</author><text>In an average year, 13&amp;#x2F;1000 Swedes die &lt;i&gt;anyway&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;Considering COVID has closed many of life&amp;#x27;s fun things, there will be an entire generation of people who have effectively &amp;quot;lost&amp;quot; a year of the things they hoped they would do in their lifetime.   By stating open, Sweden might decrease life expectancy in years, but increase it in terms of &amp;#x27;things achieved in a lifetime&amp;#x27;</text></item><item><author>leto_ii</author><text>This is an important observation. In the Netherlands, where I live, I&amp;#x27;ve had a number of people look at me with great surprise and mistrust when I mentioned that the Dutch have done a terrible job with this epidemic. The Guardian plots show that the Netherlands is one of the worst when it comes to under-reporting.&lt;p&gt;This is not to say however that the Swedes have done a good job. While their numbers are credible, their magnitude is still unacceptably large: 0.5&amp;#x2F;1000 Swedes have so far died of the corona virus.</text></item><item><author>bjourne</author><text>You have to look at the excess deaths figures. That is, how many usually dies from January to June in a normal year and compare that to how many extra that died in 2020. For Sweden the excess deaths almost exactly matches the number of Covid deaths, give or take 10%.&lt;p&gt;That is not the case for many other countries. For example, the UK had almost twice the number of excess deaths as Covid deaths in a few weeks in April. That indicates that Covid deaths were under reported in the UK. There are also some indications that Covid deaths have been under reported in other countries.&lt;p&gt;In other words, comparing countries by their Covid deaths&amp;#x2F;capita rates is meaningless. The statistics are likely completely wrong because different countries use different definitions of &amp;quot;Covid deaths&amp;quot; and different reporting procedures.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;world&amp;#x2F;ng-interactive&amp;#x2F;2020&amp;#x2F;may&amp;#x2F;29&amp;#x2F;excess-deaths-uk-has-one-highest-levels-europe&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;world&amp;#x2F;ng-interactive&amp;#x2F;2020&amp;#x2F;may&amp;#x2F;29...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Sweden: higher Covid-19 death rate while failing to collect on economic gains</title><url>https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>austhrow743</author><text>&amp;gt;What we might call civilized societies have however strived to reduce those numbers as much as possible&lt;p&gt;Unless you&amp;#x27;re claiming that no civilised society exists, that&amp;#x27;s not true at all. A civilisation built around minimising death as much as possible would look very differently to any that currently exists.&lt;p&gt;Resources are always a trade off. People working at those festivals and cinemas could have went in to medical care pre corona virus. People building festival stages and cinemas could have been building hospitals. If festivals and cinemas didn&amp;#x27;t exist then that would be less driving and less road deaths.&lt;p&gt;At some level festivals and cinemas existing is putting some peoples fun over others right to life, corona virus or no.</text><parent_chain><item><author>leto_ii</author><text>&amp;gt; In an average year, 13&amp;#x2F;1000 Swedes die anyway.&lt;p&gt;Yes, people die. That&amp;#x27;s true of all countries and all times. What we might call civilized societies have however strived to reduce those numbers as much as possible. This was done by trying to avoid violence, improving lifestyles and developing better medical techniques in order to prevent or repair diseases and injuries.&lt;p&gt;Containing and minimizing the effects of a pandemic is just one aspect of what we might call a civilized attitude towards human life. Conversely, not doing so is uncivilized and I might add immoral and irresponsible.&lt;p&gt;&amp;gt; there will be an entire generation of people who have effectively &amp;quot;lost&amp;quot; a year of the things they hoped they would do in their lifetime&lt;p&gt;This almost doesn&amp;#x27;t merit a reply. A few months of not going to festivals and the cinema is by no measure a catastrophe. It&amp;#x27;s not fun, but suggesting that your right to fun should trump others&amp;#x27; right to life is, again, uncivilized, immoral and irresponsible.</text></item><item><author>londons_explore</author><text>In an average year, 13&amp;#x2F;1000 Swedes die &lt;i&gt;anyway&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;p&gt;Considering COVID has closed many of life&amp;#x27;s fun things, there will be an entire generation of people who have effectively &amp;quot;lost&amp;quot; a year of the things they hoped they would do in their lifetime.   By stating open, Sweden might decrease life expectancy in years, but increase it in terms of &amp;#x27;things achieved in a lifetime&amp;#x27;</text></item><item><author>leto_ii</author><text>This is an important observation. In the Netherlands, where I live, I&amp;#x27;ve had a number of people look at me with great surprise and mistrust when I mentioned that the Dutch have done a terrible job with this epidemic. The Guardian plots show that the Netherlands is one of the worst when it comes to under-reporting.&lt;p&gt;This is not to say however that the Swedes have done a good job. While their numbers are credible, their magnitude is still unacceptably large: 0.5&amp;#x2F;1000 Swedes have so far died of the corona virus.</text></item><item><author>bjourne</author><text>You have to look at the excess deaths figures. That is, how many usually dies from January to June in a normal year and compare that to how many extra that died in 2020. For Sweden the excess deaths almost exactly matches the number of Covid deaths, give or take 10%.&lt;p&gt;That is not the case for many other countries. For example, the UK had almost twice the number of excess deaths as Covid deaths in a few weeks in April. That indicates that Covid deaths were under reported in the UK. There are also some indications that Covid deaths have been under reported in other countries.&lt;p&gt;In other words, comparing countries by their Covid deaths&amp;#x2F;capita rates is meaningless. The statistics are likely completely wrong because different countries use different definitions of &amp;quot;Covid deaths&amp;quot; and different reporting procedures.&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;world&amp;#x2F;ng-interactive&amp;#x2F;2020&amp;#x2F;may&amp;#x2F;29&amp;#x2F;excess-deaths-uk-has-one-highest-levels-europe&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.theguardian.com&amp;#x2F;world&amp;#x2F;ng-interactive&amp;#x2F;2020&amp;#x2F;may&amp;#x2F;29...&lt;/a&gt;</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Sweden: higher Covid-19 death rate while failing to collect on economic gains</title><url>https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html</url></story>