<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>veidr</author><text>I read a version of this argument in some US newspaper a while back. It completely misses the point.&lt;p&gt;These ass-jet toilets are not intended to replace toilet paper. They are for getting your asshole (and ladyparts, but I can&apos;t testify on that topic) much cleaner in much less time than with conventional American toilets and dry paper alone.&lt;p&gt;You use the ass-jet, then paper. That&apos;s how they work. (For a heinous bowel-movement situation, you might do paper, ass-jet, paper again.) You aren&apos;t supposed to skip the paper!&lt;p&gt;Using your mud example, if you got mud all over your head, would you rather just keep scraping your head with dry paper towels, and use up a couple rolls worth and still have some mud left over, or use some water too? Same principle.&lt;p&gt;If you take a perfect shit (love when that happens), then sure, it just slides out and leaves behind minimal debris. Great. But let&apos;s say you ate a plate of Uncle Jim&apos;s nachos the night before, along with a twelve pack of PBR, and you definitely didn&apos;t achieve shitting perfection this time. &lt;i&gt;That&lt;/i&gt; is when these toilets really shine.&lt;p&gt;The number of times you have to wipe your ass to achieve that comforting pure-white-no-residue final wipe, that tells you your asshole is clean, is &lt;i&gt;astronomically&lt;/i&gt; higher with paper only than it is with an ass-jet plus paper. I mean, have you ever had one of those wipe-it-ten-time-and-dammit-it-still-isn&apos;t-clean kind of shits? You just never have that happen with the ass-jet. The water helps wash your doody-hole AND that moistens the toilet paper (for the first post-jet wipe). That makes it work better, just like a wet dishrag is more effective at cleaning a dish than a dry one.&lt;p&gt;I personally would be surprised if populations that lack ass-jet toilets didn&apos;t have a higher incidence of hemmhorrhoids from all that wiping, over a lifetime. I don&apos;t think we have that long-term data yet.&lt;p&gt;But from personal experience, they have saved me thousdands and thousands of asshole-wipes over the years, and I could never go back to a the barbaric American toilets of my youth.&lt;p&gt;(When I moved back to America several years ago, I brought a Toto washlet toilet seat with me. And the new apartment that I just bought in Tokyo had many options to specify, but the toilet wasn&apos;t one of them--just as patio11 suggests above, the place came with a brand new whiz-bang model featuring the latest in shitter technology from Toto, complete with not only heated seat, ass-jet, and wall-mounted control panel, but also sensors that allow it to raise the seat automatically as I approach, and flush for me when I am done.)</text><parent_chain><item><author>aptimpropriety</author><text>Every one of these articles gets the pitch of these toilets completely wrong - for every person, and in every scenario, these are not universally better.&lt;p&gt;Consider the following experiment:&lt;p&gt;Smear some mud on your arm. Now, using a jet stream the power of a squirt gun and very low precision, wash it all off in 10 seconds. Not so easy.
Then - imagine if you put mud on a place with hair! Not only will it not be clean without some actual washing, we haven&apos;t even gotten to the drying part yet.&lt;p&gt;Fact of the matter is, these do not replace toilet paper. I thought they were OK (Google) until I decided to use toilet paper after - and I was shocked and disappointed. My routine simply got longer and more complex, with a small value add of washing with water instead of dry paper.&lt;p&gt;Sorry about the grim detail - I think the &apos;squeamish about bathroom routine&apos; point of the article is right - just in the wrong way!</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Why aren&apos;t we all using Japanese toilets?</title><url>http://priceonomics.com/toilets/#japanese</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>ChuckMcM</author><text>This is pretty insightful. I used them at Google as well and discovered similar variabilities. Doing some A/B testing (trust me testing on the toilet is encouraged there :-) I did find that I used less paper, but not &apos;no&apos; paper. And it wasn&apos;t just for &apos;drying purposes&apos; it was to insure everything had been taken care of.&lt;p&gt;Another observation was that you got better with the wash over time. Once familiarized with the placement controls of the unit and the &apos;feel&apos; (sorry) of the action you could achieve better results. There was some interesting speculation on what a &apos;complete&apos; fix might entail, and one of the hardware engineers put a &apos;watts up&apos; meters in line with the seat to get a read on its actual usage (about .037 kwH per month),&lt;p&gt;My take away was that it was an improvement but not a $1,500 improvement (or $4,500 if I wanted to do it to all three toilets in my house). It also &lt;i&gt;increases&lt;/i&gt; water usage, albeit modestly, which is sort of anti-california but that was before I talked with the toilet guys who said the water saving toilets only save water on urine flushes since it it typical for solid matter to require more than one flush cycle. (it still saves water but still).</text><parent_chain><item><author>aptimpropriety</author><text>Every one of these articles gets the pitch of these toilets completely wrong - for every person, and in every scenario, these are not universally better.&lt;p&gt;Consider the following experiment:&lt;p&gt;Smear some mud on your arm. Now, using a jet stream the power of a squirt gun and very low precision, wash it all off in 10 seconds. Not so easy.
Then - imagine if you put mud on a place with hair! Not only will it not be clean without some actual washing, we haven&apos;t even gotten to the drying part yet.&lt;p&gt;Fact of the matter is, these do not replace toilet paper. I thought they were OK (Google) until I decided to use toilet paper after - and I was shocked and disappointed. My routine simply got longer and more complex, with a small value add of washing with water instead of dry paper.&lt;p&gt;Sorry about the grim detail - I think the &apos;squeamish about bathroom routine&apos; point of the article is right - just in the wrong way!</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Why aren&apos;t we all using Japanese toilets?</title><url>http://priceonomics.com/toilets/#japanese</url></story>