<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>keiferski</author><text>Philosophers, artists, and other thinkers have written about aesthetics for thousands of years.&lt;p&gt;Truly answering your question would take a long time, but a short version might be something like: the collective opinions of a diverse group of highly informed and experienced (not necessarily &lt;i&gt;educated&lt;/i&gt; as in a university) individuals. But that&amp;#x27;s just one approach and there are many others.&lt;p&gt;Even then, &lt;i&gt;anything&lt;/i&gt; is probably superior to using monetary value as equivalent to anything other than &lt;i&gt;what the market currently prices it as.&lt;/i&gt; I certainly don&amp;#x27;t think the most expensive painting is the most beautiful one, although it may be not be totally uncorrelated.&lt;p&gt;If you&amp;#x27;re interested in these kinds of questions, definitely look into the philosophical field of aesthetics.</text><parent_chain><item><author>kqr</author><text>&amp;gt; there is very little connection between &amp;quot;aesthetic value&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;market value.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;Wait, so how do you determine this &amp;quot;aesthetic value&amp;quot; if not by how much people are willing to work to acquire it?&lt;p&gt;Your personal opinion? Some authority figure? Maths?</text></item><item><author>keiferski</author><text>The section on art collecting highlights the limitations of an economics-based approach to defining &amp;quot;talent.&amp;quot; Cowen is an economist and this colors his entire approach.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;“You learn about other cultures, you learn different points of view by refining your eye and you develop a skill that is extremely useful for judging other things and cracking cultural codes in other settings. It’s an education in market economics - art markets. Like how do you buy the best pictures in an area Haitian art, or how do you assemble a very good voodoo flag collection? How do you get artists in Mexico to do their best work for you? That’s a business problem that you need to solve.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;You want experience at solving a broad diversity of problems, to heighten your aesthetic sense, to learn some real history, and to understand how some of the art world works, surround yourself with beauty.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;And you should buy it for the love of the art, and try to find that which other people have not really found or appreciated yet. It’s just like the world of ideas right? It is the world of ideas. It just costs more to play in it in terms of upfront dollar commitments.” [Tyler Cowen: Production Function. David Perrell, North Star Podcast.]&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Relying on markets and the opinions of others may be effective in determining current economic value, but it is not a fruitful approach for finding &amp;quot;talent&amp;quot;, broadly defined. Contemporary art is an excellent place to observe this phenomenon; there is very little connection between &amp;quot;aesthetic value&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;market value.&amp;quot; The art market is a fascinating thing, but make no mistake, the most popular artists are not the most &amp;quot;talented&amp;quot;, by whatever definition of &lt;i&gt;talent&lt;/i&gt; you may have.&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;&lt;i&gt;Slow is the experience of all deep fountains: long have they to wait until they know what hath fallen into their depths. Away from the marketplace and from fame taketh place all that is great: away from the marketplace and from fame have ever dwelt the devisers of new values.&amp;quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;- Nietzsche, &lt;i&gt;Thus Spoke Zarathustra&lt;/i&gt;</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Tyler Cowen is a curator of talent</title><url>https://kulesa.substack.com/p/tyler-cowen-is-the-best-curator-of</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>dalbasal</author><text>Taste.&lt;p&gt;I realize this is unsatisfying to many, but there really is no other choice. A strict empiricist has no way of knowing whether or not art is good. In fact, a purely empirical worldview will find it hard to have art in it at all. There&amp;#x27;s no way to distinguish subjective from arbitrary.&lt;p&gt;If you do accept that taste exists and that subjective !=  arbitrary, we can move forward and discuss it without expecting externally verifiable tests for it. If you can&amp;#x27;t, maybe you shouldn&amp;#x27;t believe that art exists at all... or that we can gain any knowledge of it if it does.&lt;p&gt;Substituting price or popularity for quality is redundant. Just think in terms of price or popularity, and forget about quality. Calling popularity quality just because it&amp;#x27;s easier to define or measure muddies things up, whether or not you believe in taste.</text><parent_chain><item><author>kqr</author><text>&amp;gt; there is very little connection between &amp;quot;aesthetic value&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;market value.&amp;quot;&lt;p&gt;Wait, so how do you determine this &amp;quot;aesthetic value&amp;quot; if not by how much people are willing to work to acquire it?&lt;p&gt;Your personal opinion? Some authority figure? Maths?</text></item><item><author>keiferski</author><text>The section on art collecting highlights the limitations of an economics-based approach to defining &amp;quot;talent.&amp;quot; Cowen is an economist and this colors his entire approach.&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;“You learn about other cultures, you learn different points of view by refining your eye and you develop a skill that is extremely useful for judging other things and cracking cultural codes in other settings. It’s an education in market economics - art markets. Like how do you buy the best pictures in an area Haitian art, or how do you assemble a very good voodoo flag collection? How do you get artists in Mexico to do their best work for you? That’s a business problem that you need to solve.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;You want experience at solving a broad diversity of problems, to heighten your aesthetic sense, to learn some real history, and to understand how some of the art world works, surround yourself with beauty.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;And you should buy it for the love of the art, and try to find that which other people have not really found or appreciated yet. It’s just like the world of ideas right? It is the world of ideas. It just costs more to play in it in terms of upfront dollar commitments.” [Tyler Cowen: Production Function. David Perrell, North Star Podcast.]&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;Relying on markets and the opinions of others may be effective in determining current economic value, but it is not a fruitful approach for finding &amp;quot;talent&amp;quot;, broadly defined. Contemporary art is an excellent place to observe this phenomenon; there is very little connection between &amp;quot;aesthetic value&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;market value.&amp;quot; The art market is a fascinating thing, but make no mistake, the most popular artists are not the most &amp;quot;talented&amp;quot;, by whatever definition of &lt;i&gt;talent&lt;/i&gt; you may have.&lt;p&gt;&amp;quot;&lt;i&gt;Slow is the experience of all deep fountains: long have they to wait until they know what hath fallen into their depths. Away from the marketplace and from fame taketh place all that is great: away from the marketplace and from fame have ever dwelt the devisers of new values.&amp;quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;p&gt;- Nietzsche, &lt;i&gt;Thus Spoke Zarathustra&lt;/i&gt;</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Tyler Cowen is a curator of talent</title><url>https://kulesa.substack.com/p/tyler-cowen-is-the-best-curator-of</url></story>