<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>vinyl7</author><text>The problem is with basic male-female relationship dynamics within the concept of marriage&amp;#x2F;family. Women are attracted to wealth and status, men are attracted to appearances. Now that women can build a career equal to men, not only do they find those men unattractive...they really have no need for a man, aside from procreation. With how expensive everything is getting, and requiring both couples to work full time careers just to be able afford a home, its just not manageable to bring children into the picture for most people. Forget about day care which costs $1500 a month.&lt;p&gt;What we&amp;#x27;re seeing and will see more of is demographic changes similar to china where there are more elderly people and not enough young people to take over and care for the elderly.&lt;p&gt;Beyond demographic changes, there is something behind men needing a family to take care of that makes him have worth and gives him something to keep working for. Being a career slave for nothing is probably a big part of the suicide rate among men</text><parent_chain><item><author>epups</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m sorry, but I think your narrative is misguided. When you were 20,which was 30 years ago, it might have been less likely that you would get a stranger to change your tire. But it was much more likely you, rather than a woman, would find employment and especially reach a position of power. Which one do you think is more important for a satisfying life?&lt;p&gt;The fact that we are working towards a more equal society is not only a win for feminism, it is a win for humanity. Civilization has historically been built by men, as you say, because we used to believe that women were incapable of contributing equally. A big mistake, and a huge waste of potential talent.</text></item><item><author>lordfrito</author><text>My 2c.&lt;p&gt;Society doesn&amp;#x27;t care about young men. They&amp;#x27;re pretty much left to fend for themselves. Hopefully they have a good family structure, and a few good male friends. Without that they&amp;#x27;re toally adrift.&lt;p&gt;I learned this lesson when I got a flat tire driving across two states when I was 20. No one is willing to help. I guarantee a 20 yo woman would have no problem flagging down help, heck people would stop to help without being asked.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m 51 now, and I understand why more and more men are checking out. The grind isn&amp;#x27;t worth it. There&amp;#x27;s a reward system in play here, you grind at life and are rewarded. Grind in school and you graduate. Grind more and you get a degree. Grind more and you get a family and career and some big toys.&lt;p&gt;It seems that the amount of grinding men have to do is increasing, and the net rewards society bestows seem to be decreasing. I won&amp;#x27;t get into a shouting match on what the problems men experience are, you can fill in the blanks with your own experiences and biases, but all the men I know seem to agree that there seems to be less of an upside to sacrificing for the greater good than there used to be. As a middle aged man strangers I meet expect the worst from me, why should I try?&lt;p&gt;As an alternative you can spend your hours grinding away at video games and leveling up. And the games are getting better every year.&lt;p&gt;It seems to me that many young men are finding leveling up in games is simply more rewarding than leveling up in real life. I wish it weren&amp;#x27;t so, but here we are.&lt;p&gt;Historically speaking, civilization is built and defended largely on the backs of young men. When they check out, it can&amp;#x27;t be a net good for the trajectory of society.&lt;p&gt;Or maybe this is a win for feminism? Women finally have work equality and so men don&amp;#x27;t have to work as hard anymore.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t have answers. But the trend has been clear for a long while.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Men Without Work (2016)</title><url>https://time.com/4504004/men-without-work/</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>ithkuil</author><text>I agree that shouldn&amp;#x27;t be a zero sum game.&lt;p&gt;Yet, there are undoubtedly forces at play it that cause a significant fraction of men to feel disfranchised. We can blame that to reactionary forces, to the last blows of patriarchy, but ultimately it&amp;#x27;s a real issue and unless we find a way to communicate across the ever deeper chasm the situation can only get more serious.</text><parent_chain><item><author>epups</author><text>I&amp;#x27;m sorry, but I think your narrative is misguided. When you were 20,which was 30 years ago, it might have been less likely that you would get a stranger to change your tire. But it was much more likely you, rather than a woman, would find employment and especially reach a position of power. Which one do you think is more important for a satisfying life?&lt;p&gt;The fact that we are working towards a more equal society is not only a win for feminism, it is a win for humanity. Civilization has historically been built by men, as you say, because we used to believe that women were incapable of contributing equally. A big mistake, and a huge waste of potential talent.</text></item><item><author>lordfrito</author><text>My 2c.&lt;p&gt;Society doesn&amp;#x27;t care about young men. They&amp;#x27;re pretty much left to fend for themselves. Hopefully they have a good family structure, and a few good male friends. Without that they&amp;#x27;re toally adrift.&lt;p&gt;I learned this lesson when I got a flat tire driving across two states when I was 20. No one is willing to help. I guarantee a 20 yo woman would have no problem flagging down help, heck people would stop to help without being asked.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m 51 now, and I understand why more and more men are checking out. The grind isn&amp;#x27;t worth it. There&amp;#x27;s a reward system in play here, you grind at life and are rewarded. Grind in school and you graduate. Grind more and you get a degree. Grind more and you get a family and career and some big toys.&lt;p&gt;It seems that the amount of grinding men have to do is increasing, and the net rewards society bestows seem to be decreasing. I won&amp;#x27;t get into a shouting match on what the problems men experience are, you can fill in the blanks with your own experiences and biases, but all the men I know seem to agree that there seems to be less of an upside to sacrificing for the greater good than there used to be. As a middle aged man strangers I meet expect the worst from me, why should I try?&lt;p&gt;As an alternative you can spend your hours grinding away at video games and leveling up. And the games are getting better every year.&lt;p&gt;It seems to me that many young men are finding leveling up in games is simply more rewarding than leveling up in real life. I wish it weren&amp;#x27;t so, but here we are.&lt;p&gt;Historically speaking, civilization is built and defended largely on the backs of young men. When they check out, it can&amp;#x27;t be a net good for the trajectory of society.&lt;p&gt;Or maybe this is a win for feminism? Women finally have work equality and so men don&amp;#x27;t have to work as hard anymore.&lt;p&gt;I don&amp;#x27;t have answers. But the trend has been clear for a long while.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Men Without Work (2016)</title><url>https://time.com/4504004/men-without-work/</url></story>