<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>DCKing</author><text>Not so sure about that &amp;quot;running circles around&amp;quot;. While the M1 Max will not beat a mobile RTX 3080 (~same chip as desktop RTX 3070), Apple is in the same ballpark of its performance [1] (or is being extremely misleading in their performance claims [2]).&lt;p&gt;Nvidia very likely has leading top end performance still, but &amp;quot;running circles around this thing&amp;quot; is probably not a fair description. Apple certainly has a credible claim to destroy  Ampere in terms of power per watt - just limiting themselves in the power envelope still. (It&amp;#x27;s worth noting that AMD&amp;#x27;s RDNA2 already edges out Ampere in performance per watt - that&amp;#x27;s not really Nvidia&amp;#x27;s strong suit in their current lineup).&lt;p&gt;[1]: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.apple.com&amp;#x2F;v&amp;#x2F;macbook-pro-14-and-16&amp;#x2F;a&amp;#x2F;images&amp;#x2F;overview&amp;#x2F;modal&amp;#x2F;m1_max_graph_gpu__3fxymb4a842m_large_2x.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;www.apple.com&amp;#x2F;v&amp;#x2F;macbook-pro-14-and-16&amp;#x2F;a&amp;#x2F;images&amp;#x2F;overv...&lt;/a&gt;
- which in the footnote is shown to compare the M1 Max to this laptop with mobile RTX 3080: &lt;a href=&quot;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;us-store.msi.com&amp;#x2F;index.php?route=product&amp;#x2F;product&amp;amp;product_id=801&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;https:&amp;#x2F;&amp;#x2F;us-store.msi.com&amp;#x2F;index.php?route=product&amp;#x2F;product&amp;amp;pro...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;p&gt;[2]: There&amp;#x27;s &lt;i&gt;a lot&lt;/i&gt; of things wrong with in how vague Apple tends to be about performance, but their unmarked graphs have been okay for general ballpark estimates at least.</text><parent_chain><item><author>jjcon</author><text>&amp;gt; GPU capabilities that blow everything away&lt;p&gt;Compared to previous macs and igpus - an nvidia gpu will still run circles arounnd this thing</text></item><item><author>camillomiller</author><text>You need to consider the larger target group of professionals. 
It&amp;#x27;s really GPU capabilities that blow everything away. 
If you don&amp;#x27;t plan to use your MacBook Pro for video&amp;#x2F;photo editing or 3D modeling, then a M1 Pro with the same 10-core CPU and 16-core Neural Engine has all you need and costs less. 
Unless I&amp;#x27;m missing something I don&amp;#x27;t think there much added benefit from the added GPU cores in your scenario, unless you want to go with the maximum configurable memory.</text></item><item><author>PragmaticPulp</author><text>&amp;gt; I just can&amp;#x27;t figure out what I&amp;#x27;m missing on the &amp;quot;M1 is so fast&amp;quot; side of things.&lt;p&gt;Two reasons:&lt;p&gt;1. M1 is a super fast &lt;i&gt;laptop&lt;/i&gt; chip. It provides mid-range desktop performance in a laptop form factor with mostly fanless operation. No matter how you look at it, that&amp;#x27;s impressive.&lt;p&gt;2. Apple really dragged their feet on updating the old Intel Macs before the transition. People in the Mac world (excluding hackintosh) were stuck on relatively outdated x86-64 CPUs. Compared to those older CPUs, the M1 Max is a huge leap forward. Compared to modern AMD mobile parts, it&amp;#x27;s still faster but not by leaps and bounds.&lt;p&gt;But I agree that the M1 hype may be getting a little out of hand. It&amp;#x27;s fast and super power efficient, but it&amp;#x27;s mostly on par with mid-range 8-core AMD desktop CPUs from 2020. Even AMD&amp;#x27;s top mobile CPU isn&amp;#x27;t that far behind the M1 Max in Geekbench scores.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m very excited to get my M1 Max in a few weeks. But if these early Geekbench results are accurate, it&amp;#x27;s going to be about half as fast as my AMD desktop in code compilation (see Clang results in the detailed score breakdown). That&amp;#x27;s still mightily impressive from a low-power laptop! But I think some of the rhetoric about the M1 Max blowing away desktop CPUs is getting a little ahead of the reality.</text></item><item><author>blakesterz</author><text>I just can&amp;#x27;t figure out what I&amp;#x27;m missing on the &amp;quot;M1 is so fast&amp;quot; side of things. For years I worked* on an Ubuntu desktop machine I built myself. Early this year I switched to a brand new M1 mini and this this is slower and less reliable than the thing I built myself that runs Ubuntu. My Ubuntu machine had a few little issues every no and then. My Mini has weird bugs all the time. e.g. Green Screen Crashes when I have a thumbdrive plugged in. Won&amp;#x27;t wake from sleep. Loses bluetooth randomly. Not at all what I&amp;#x27;d expect from something built by the company with unlimited funds. I would expect those issues from the Ubuntu box, but the problems were small on that thing.&lt;p&gt;*Work... Docker, Ansible, Rails apps, nothing that requires amazing super power. Everything just runs slower.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score</title><url>https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/10496766</url></story>
<instructions>Your goal is to analyze the following comment and estimate how highly it will be upvoted by the Hacker News community.</instructions><comment><author>derefr</author><text>&amp;gt; an nvidia gpu will still run circles arounnd this thing&lt;p&gt;Not for loading up models larger than 32GB it wouldn&amp;#x27;t. (They exist! That&amp;#x27;s what the &amp;quot;full-detail model of the starship Enterprise&amp;quot; thing in the keynote was about.)&lt;p&gt;Remember that on any computer &lt;i&gt;without&lt;/i&gt; unified memory, you can only load a scene the size of the GPU&amp;#x27;s VRAM. No matter how much main memory you have to swap against, no matter how many GPUs you throw at the problem, no magic wand is going to let you render a &lt;i&gt;single tile of a single frame&lt;/i&gt; if it has more texture-memory as inputs than one of your GPUs has VRAM.&lt;p&gt;Right now, consumer GPUs top out at 32GB of VRAM. The M1 Max has, in a sense, 64GB (minus OS baseline overhead) of VRAM for its GPU to use.&lt;p&gt;Of course, there is &amp;quot;&lt;i&gt;an&lt;/i&gt; nvidia gpu&amp;quot; that can bench more than the M1 Max: the Nvidia A100 Tensor Core GPU, with 80GB of VRAM... which costs $149,000.&lt;p&gt;(And even then, I should point out that the leaked Mac Pro M1 variant is apparently 4x larger &lt;i&gt;again&lt;/i&gt; — i.e. it&amp;#x27;s probably available in a configuration with &lt;i&gt;256GB&lt;/i&gt; of unified memory. That&amp;#x27;s getting close to &amp;quot;doing the training for GPT-3 — a 350GB model before optimization — on a single computer&amp;quot; territory.)</text><parent_chain><item><author>jjcon</author><text>&amp;gt; GPU capabilities that blow everything away&lt;p&gt;Compared to previous macs and igpus - an nvidia gpu will still run circles arounnd this thing</text></item><item><author>camillomiller</author><text>You need to consider the larger target group of professionals. 
It&amp;#x27;s really GPU capabilities that blow everything away. 
If you don&amp;#x27;t plan to use your MacBook Pro for video&amp;#x2F;photo editing or 3D modeling, then a M1 Pro with the same 10-core CPU and 16-core Neural Engine has all you need and costs less. 
Unless I&amp;#x27;m missing something I don&amp;#x27;t think there much added benefit from the added GPU cores in your scenario, unless you want to go with the maximum configurable memory.</text></item><item><author>PragmaticPulp</author><text>&amp;gt; I just can&amp;#x27;t figure out what I&amp;#x27;m missing on the &amp;quot;M1 is so fast&amp;quot; side of things.&lt;p&gt;Two reasons:&lt;p&gt;1. M1 is a super fast &lt;i&gt;laptop&lt;/i&gt; chip. It provides mid-range desktop performance in a laptop form factor with mostly fanless operation. No matter how you look at it, that&amp;#x27;s impressive.&lt;p&gt;2. Apple really dragged their feet on updating the old Intel Macs before the transition. People in the Mac world (excluding hackintosh) were stuck on relatively outdated x86-64 CPUs. Compared to those older CPUs, the M1 Max is a huge leap forward. Compared to modern AMD mobile parts, it&amp;#x27;s still faster but not by leaps and bounds.&lt;p&gt;But I agree that the M1 hype may be getting a little out of hand. It&amp;#x27;s fast and super power efficient, but it&amp;#x27;s mostly on par with mid-range 8-core AMD desktop CPUs from 2020. Even AMD&amp;#x27;s top mobile CPU isn&amp;#x27;t that far behind the M1 Max in Geekbench scores.&lt;p&gt;I&amp;#x27;m very excited to get my M1 Max in a few weeks. But if these early Geekbench results are accurate, it&amp;#x27;s going to be about half as fast as my AMD desktop in code compilation (see Clang results in the detailed score breakdown). That&amp;#x27;s still mightily impressive from a low-power laptop! But I think some of the rhetoric about the M1 Max blowing away desktop CPUs is getting a little ahead of the reality.</text></item><item><author>blakesterz</author><text>I just can&amp;#x27;t figure out what I&amp;#x27;m missing on the &amp;quot;M1 is so fast&amp;quot; side of things. For years I worked* on an Ubuntu desktop machine I built myself. Early this year I switched to a brand new M1 mini and this this is slower and less reliable than the thing I built myself that runs Ubuntu. My Ubuntu machine had a few little issues every no and then. My Mini has weird bugs all the time. e.g. Green Screen Crashes when I have a thumbdrive plugged in. Won&amp;#x27;t wake from sleep. Loses bluetooth randomly. Not at all what I&amp;#x27;d expect from something built by the company with unlimited funds. I would expect those issues from the Ubuntu box, but the problems were small on that thing.&lt;p&gt;*Work... Docker, Ansible, Rails apps, nothing that requires amazing super power. Everything just runs slower.</text></item></parent_chain></comment><story><title>Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score</title><url>https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/10496766</url></story>