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Archive for the 'jeff passan' tag
Nats Non-News: Non-tender deadline, FA (lack of) market and Ohtani
Are the Nats really in the mix for Japanese superstar Ohtani? Photo via cbssports.com
As many others have noticed … there isn't a heck of a lot going on right now in the "hot stove" season. But given where we are in the regular off-season calendar, lets bang out a couple of topics.
First: the Non-tender deadline.
For the first time in an awful long time, the Nats have no real obvious non-tender candidates on their roster. They entered the off-season with just four arbitration-eligible players and they are all set to be crucial pieces for 2018:
Bryce Harper technically would have been arb-eligible but signed away his 4th year for north of $21M.
Anthony Rendon comes off easily his finest season as a pro (his numbers across the board eclipse his 2014 5th place MVP season) and he should be in line to more than double his $5.8M 2017 salary.
Tanner Roark struggled in 2017 (… perhaps caused/aided by the frequently-seen WBC hangover?) but is still slated to be our 4th starter on a rotation that doesn't currently have a fifth and should be in line for about an $8M payday.
Michael Taylor has established himself as one of the premier defensive center fielders in the game, will be set to start in 2018, and faces arbitration for the first time (likely to get around a $2.5M check).
Compare this to previous non-tender years (with links to non-tender specific posts from years past):
2016: we non-tendered Ben Revere, waived Aaron Barrett before having to make the NT decision, and declined Yusmeiro Petit's option as a way of "non-tendering" him.
2015: we non-tendered Craig Stammen, but kept NT candidates Jose Lobaton and Tyler Moore (eventually trading Moore after waiving him at the end of spring training).
2014: we did not non-tender anyone, though a couple weeks later traded NT candidate Ross Detwiler to Texas for two guys who never really panned out for us (Chris Bostick and Abel de los Santos).
2013: we did not non-tender anyone, only Ross Ohlendorf was a candidate, and in retrospect he probably should have been NT'd since he didn't throw a pitch for the Nationals in 2014.
2012: we non-tendered three guys (Jesus Flores, Tom Gorzelanny, John Lannan) in the face of a huge amount of arbitration players (10).
2011: we non-tendered Doug Slaten deservedly, but tendered candidate Gorzellany.
2010: we non-tendered Chien-Ming Wang, Wil Nieves, Joel Peralta. We also outrighted 5 guys prior to the NT deadline, DFA'd two more in December, and DFA/dreleased four more guys prior to Spring training in a very busy off-season.
2009: we non-tendered Scott Olsen, Mike MacDougal
2008: we non-tendered Tim Redding, now the Pitching coach for our Auburn Short-A team, so I guess there was no hard feelings there 🙂
2007: we non-tendered Nook Logan, Mike O'Conner.
2006: we non-tendered or declined options for Ryan Drese, Brian Lawrence, Zach Day (it might have only been Day who was officially non-tendered)
2005: we non-tendered Carlos Baerga, Preston Wilson, Junior Spivey.
That's a long trip down random memory lane for marginal Nationals players from yesteryear.
Post-publish edit: as expected, the team formally tendered contracts to the 3 arb-eligible players on 12/1/17.
The FA market in general seems to be held up by two major names: Giancarlo Stanton and Shohei Ohtani. Jeff Passan argues there's other reasons (see this link) for the lack of movement, but one has to think the big names are a big part of it. I also believe that this year's "crop" of FAs is … well kind of underwhelming. Here's Passan's ranking of FAs: his biggest names past Ohtani are Yu Darvish (who just sucked in the post-season, is coming off TJ surgery and doesn't rate as the "Ace" he once was), J.D. Martinez (who blew up in 2017 but who has normally gotten a lot of his value from defense and he's not getting any younger), Eric Hosmer (a 1B only guy, even if he's really good, who seems like a safe bet to get over-pad and age badly) and Jake Arrieta (who has taken a step backwards from his Cy Young win and has already entered his decline years). Plus, the "price" for signing some of these QO-attached guys (Hosmer, Arrieta plus other top-10 FAs like Lorenzo Cain, Mike Moustakas and Wade Davis) will be quite steep for big-market and/or Luxury tax teams like our own Washington Nationals.
Frankly, between the higher price of forced loss of picks due to our over-spending last season, our current payroll tightness (we seem to only have about $17M to spend to stay under the tax for all of next year) and the underwhelming lot of available players … i don't see us really participating in this year's sweepstakes. Do we want to pony up for a middling 5th starter type like Jaime Garcia at the likely going price of $10M/year? Or roll the dice with a MLFA like we did with some success last year (Edwin Jackson, Jacob Taylor). Or just stay inhouse and let Erick Fedde continue to mature every 5th day on the mound?
Stanton, according to the tea-leaves i'm reading this week, seems like he's heading to San Francisco, who is in desperate need for offense, outfielders and a franchise makeover after last year's debacle. Stanton could fit all three. Which is great for him (he's born and raised in California and would be joining a franchise that, despite its 2017 season, still has 3 WS titles in the last decade and a slew of marquee players to build around), great for the Nats (getting him out of the division), great for the "franchise" of Miami (who rids themselves of perhaps the 2nd worst contract in baseball behind Albert Pujols' and lets them get a relatively clean slate to start over for the new franchise ownership group), and of course awful for the "fans" of Miami, who thought they were finally getting rid of one of the worst owners in professional sports only to get slapped in the face with comical missteps by the new Derek Jeter-led ownership group, who managed to embarrass themselves in the most ridiculous way (by firing ceremonial Marlins legends for no good reason) early and then put themselves on the defensive needlessly by immediately crying poor and saying that they needed to pare payroll within a few days of taking over. If i was a Miami fan I wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry.
I also think its notable that the first ex-Nat ranked on Passan's list comes in at #43; the "ripe for regression" Matt Albers. Brandon Knitzler comes soon after him (who could be a re-signing candidate frankly for us, to put the "law firm" back together), then you have to get all the way down to #62 to find Jayson Werth. As compared to next off-season, when the Nats will have the #1 guy on the list.
Coming back to Ohtani (I'm going with the h in the name since after much research that's what seems like the right way to spell it) ….
First things first: I desperately hope the Nats get him. Anyone who thinks that they're better off without Ohtani is a fool; he's set to become one of the biggest bargains in baseball. For the small price of a $20M posting fee, you get a guy who throws 100, is an 80 runner, and hits the crap out of the ball. For a miniscule bonus figure (the max any team has seems to be about $3.5M; the Nats only have $300k) and then a MLB min contract. Its just amazing. His presence could literally change the face of a franchise for a decade for about the same amount of money we will have paid Gio Gonzalez this year and next. I doubt he picks us though; it seems more likely he picks either a major market team (NY, Boston) on the east coast or (more likely) one of the west coast teams for better proximity to Japan and a larger Asian native market (LA, SF, Seattle). But its all speculation.
Hey, did I mention that the Nats need both another starter AND a lefty-bat off the bench, right now?? Ohtani would be perfect!
Side Note: why the heck is he coming over now and subjecting himself to MLB minimum contracts and arbitration?? He's literally leaving $100M on the table by not waiting just two years and coming over un-restricted. I just cannot believe he's doing this and costing himself so much money. I get the lip service comments about wanting to challenge himself, yadda yadda, but when there's literally 9 figures of money on the table, I just don't understand the decision. He's projected to be better than Daisuke Matsuzaka, better than Darvish, both of whom got many times more money (Dice-K got $52M to him, $103M in total cost plus his posting fee), while Darvish got $60M to him and cost the Rangers $111M total with posting fee). It seems crazy.
Can't wait to see where he goes, and I can't wait to see if he's the real deal.
December 1st, 2017 at 1:20 pm
Tagged with aaron barrett, abel de los santos, albert pujuols, anthony rendon, ben revere, brandon knitzler, brian lawrence, bryce harper, carlos baerga, chien-ming wang, chris bostick, craig stammen, daisuke matsuzaka, derek jeter, doug slaten, edwin jackson, eric hosmer, erick fedde, giancarlo stanton, gio gonzalez, jacob taylor, jake arrieta, jayson werth, jd martinez, jeff passan, jesus flores, joel peralta, john lannan, jose lobaton, junior spivey, lorenzo cain, matt albers, michael taylor, mike macdougal, mike moustakas, mike oconner, nook logan, preston wilson, ross detwiler, ross ohlendorf, ryan drese, scott olsen, shohei ohtani, tanner roark, tim redding, tom gorzelanny, tyler moore, wade davis, wil nieves, yu darvish, yusmeiro petit, zach day
Huge Over-Pay for Eaton
Eaton should be this excited moving to a playoff contender. (AP Photo/Paul Sancya)
"There is no such thing as a pitching prospect."
So said Joe Sheehan, more than 13 years ago on Baseball Prospectus.
Well, the Nationals just traded three very, very good pitching prospects for one very good outfielder in a move that was shocking to baseball insiders, let alone Nats fans.
In case you're not sure what we're talking about: Nats acquired Adam Eaton, he of the 6-win 2016 season and his ridiculously team-friendly contract (he's signed with options through 2021 for just a measly $38.4M). In return we gave up three of our four best starting pitching prospects in the form of Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez and 2016 1st rounder Dane Dunning.
To put things in a different way: we just acquired 5 years of Eaton for a combined potential of nearly *twenty* years of rotation pieces for the south siders. We likely made their rotation for the next decade with this move, even if you take an entirely pessimistic viewpoint of the ceilings of all three of these players.
For me; it was too much to pay (in case you couldn't tell how I felt from the title of the post). The Nats just traded away literally all their near-to-the-majors starter depth in a complete win-now move that, while I've been advocating for it, seemed like an overpay. I could see/make the argument for Giolito and Dunning, or Lopez+Dunning, but all three seems gratuitous. Ironic because i've just beek talking about not over-valuing your prospects.
The best case scenario for these three arms is a #1, #2 and #5 starter for years to come. But since best case is never going to happen, lets take some worst-case scenarios for these three guys we just traded. I know Giolito's critics are large here, but bear with me:
Giolito never harnesses his control and turns into essentially Alex Meyers.
Lopez never develops a secondary pitch and is turned into a late-inning 100-mph reliever
Dunning's craftiness only takes him as far as a 5th starter or middle-relief guy for a middling team.
Still, that's three major league arms, cost controlled first round talents with their bonus money already paid for. The reality will be somewhere in the middle.
What this deal says is the high price of a good contract. Eaton is getting paid absolute peanuts compared to the value he's producing, he plays (or can play) a valuable position, and that's really what the cost was all about. If Eaton was on a $18M/year contract he's only costing one of those three arms in return.
The last time the Nats did this big of a prospects-for-players deal it was the Gio Gonzalez move. And at the time I wasn't nearly as negative towards the price as I am for this one.
Fallout/other observations from this deal:
The White Sox have now gone from having a farm system ranked in the 22-23 range to inarguably the #1 farm system in the game. In like two days.
Lots of head scratching amongst baseball insiders, MLB.tv announcers, prospect guys.
Interesting that literally as soon as this trade occurred, you started seeing people "in the know" talking about how the Nationals had "soured" on Giolito. I'm sure we'll hear more about it soon; whispers about work ethic and approach. Where were these comments yesterday?
Get ready for spot-starts from A.J. Cole and Austin Voth; you don't get through modern baseball seasons on 5 starters anymore, and we don't exactly have the most reliable rotation.
I suspect Danny Espinosa (who is now patently surplus to requirements) gets flipped for hopefully an optionable starter to give us some more depth. I like Voth and am excited to see what he can do … but i'm not trusting him to give this team 4-5 starts and compete.
Our respectable farm system is now gutted: no matter what you think of these three arms heading the other way, they were #1, #3 and #6 prospects in our system. We have mortgaged the future for the present in a large way.
Nats new Lineup: Eaton (CF), Turner (SS), Harper (RF), Murphy (2B), Rendon (3B), Werth (LF), Zimmerman (1B), Norris (C). Decent lefty-righty balance which could be stretched a bit if you broke up Harper & Murphy. Eaton makes a bit more sense at leadoff since Turner has proven to have a bit more power than we thought, and Eaton is a lefty, but I could see them switched and then going Harper-Rendon-Murphy or something like that so you don't have 3 lefties in a row. But this is now a pretty fast lineup at the top.
So, what say you?
Posted in Majors Pitching,Minor League Pitching,Nats in General
Tagged with adam eaton, aj cole, alex meyers, austin voth, dane dunning, danny espinosa, gio gonzalez, jeff passan, joe sheehan, lucas giolito, reynaldo lopez
Winter Meetings Rumor Frenzy … and an unnecessary bomb dropped on the Nats about Harper
This is what Harper may want his agent to do with a baseball right now. Or maybe not. Photo GQ magazine Mar 2012
Bryce Harper is not a Free agent for two more seasons. So why the F is everyone writing glaring headlines about him right now??
I thought the Bob Nightengale article was a complete hack job against the Nationals, completely unnecessary and taking gratuitous shots at the organization over a situation that could go a dozen different ways between now and November, 2018 when he's ACTUALLY a free agent. And then the subsequent Jeff Passan article that followed it a complete over-reaction, basically pulling one potentially innocuous quote out of Nightengale's article to write a 1,000 words chastising the entire Nats organization. Was it really that slow of a news day in the National Harbor that these were the stories that had to be written yesterday??
I have never really liked Nightengale's style of reporting; he was the one that trashed Adam LaRoche earlier this year by quoting a bunch of unnamed members of the White Sox front office, essentially enabling them to write their version of the narrative of that situation without having to put their name on it, but the Passan article caused me to lose a bit of reporting respect for him too. Passan's passing judgement on the entire Nats organization by virtue of one anonymous quote from an unnamed Nationals Executive who commented that the Nationals were "not prepared" to meet a 10yr/$400M contract.
Here's a thought: stop quoting anonymous people who probably just threw out a line passing you in the hallway, or who have an axe to grind and are too chicken-sh*t to put their name behind their words, and put some journalistic integrity behind your reporting.
OF COURSE the Nationals are "not prepared" to meet a $400M contract demand. Who is?? Are the Yankees, given the massive luxury taxes now built into future CBAs? Are the Dodgers, who just got told to cut their debts or risk further penalties? Are the Cubs, who just won a World Series on the backs of a bunch of pre-arb sluggers and reasonably priced arms? What other organization in baseball has the financial where-with-all?? Certainly not the Nationals, who (thanks to a short-sighted deal and a ridiculously argumentative owner in Baltimore) are stuck in one of the worst RSN deals in the majors and thus are missing out on literally tens of millions of dollars of revenue? How does any team commit a quarter of their payroll to one player in the modern age, especially one that has shown himself to be as injury-prone as Harper?
Harper is a great player. Is he worth being compensated as easily the highest paid player in the game? Not in my book. He's not better than Trout or Kershaw. He's not nearly durable enough to merit that kind of commitment from a sane organization and that puts him behind some of his other compatriots right now (Manny Machado for example). He's a product of his headline inducing agent Scott Boras and these two writers (well respected and nationally known) fell for it. Again. I'm sure he'll get some ridiculous contract in 2018, but its no small secret that it probably won't be the Nationals.
Can we go back to arguing about whether we should be saving a 19-yr old who has never played above A-ball instead of acquiring a recent NL MVP or a guy who has finished in the top 5 of Cy Young voting five straight years??
Posted in Baseball in General,Nats in General
Tagged with adam laroche, bob nightengale, bryce harper, clayton kershaw, jeff passan, manny machado, mike trout, scott boras
Adam LaRoche, Ken Williams and an ugly situation
LaRoche in happier times. Photo: Rob Carr/Getty Images
By now I think we've all seen the Adam LaRoche story. Short version: Chicago president Kenny Williams asked LaRoche to not have his kid at the clubhouse every day and LaRoche retired instead of agreeing to Williams' terms.
Is there more to this story? Oooh yeah. Read this deadspin.com piece, which has a ton of tweets from MLB reporters Jeff Passan and Ken Rosenthal (basically two of the most respected and connected guys covering the game today, in case you doubt a story at deadspin). My take-aways:
LaRoche had it IN HIS CONTRACT that he could bring his kid to the ballpark every day.
The kid had his own frigging locker and (as he did in Washington) did "clubhouse attendant" stuff to earn his keep.
The players supported LaRoche, except for some apparent unnamed anonymous players who allegedly complained to Williams as reported in this link.
Except that those un-named players apparently were too afraid to voice their opinion as the team threatened to boycott games the next day.
The players, the GM and the Manager all disagreed with the decision.
As is noted in the deadspin piece, reports from the meeting the players had with the President were perhaps the most angry I've ever read of a team being with its management. Its not every day where a player like Chris Sale tells his boss' boss' boss to "get the f*ck out of the clubhouse and don't come back."
My take?
I think Williams continued a sh*tty tradition of tone-deaf management out of the Chicago White Sox, whose owner Jerry Reinsdorf was the leading voice in pushing for limiting amateur bonuses in the last CBA in order to save a buck. LaRoche hit .217 last year and was owed $13M this year: if LaRoche hit .290 with 30 homers last year do you still think Williams would have done what he did?
You may say (as others like noted "get off my lawn" dinosaur Bob Nightengale) something like "who else gets to take their kid to work every day?" And you'd be right … except that nobody reading this works for a major league baseball club. How often have you heard players say that "its different" being in a clubhouse than being in an office? Do you agree? I do; this isn't a normal work place. MLB teams already HAVE kids around every day; they're called bat boys. So what's the real difference here? Its ok for a bat boy to be with the team for 6 straight months but not ok for a player's son? These aren't "workers" as much as they're "entertainers" and the concept of a "workplace" isn't exactly the same. The Nats built a day care center so their wives and kids could come to the games, and that's good business.
Furthermore, there's this: these guys constantly talk about being "a family" when talking about the team chemistry. That's because they basically spend 10-12 hours a day for 7 straight months together. Working together, living together, showering together, traveling together and eating together. Is it that big of a stretch to hear about people's kids being at the games? How many times have you read about kids being at ball parks in your life? A hundred? More?
The timing of this is also ridiculous; leave out for a moment that LaRoche's contract stated he could bring his kid to the clubhouse (the kid had his OWN LOCKER!) and leaving out the point that LaRoche is a union guy (can you say player grievance coming?). Why would Williams choose to have this fight 4 weeks into spring training? If it was really that big of a deal, why not address it in the off-season? I mean, can you imagine being a White Sox fan right now? How does this situation make the White Sox better, in any conceivable way, for the season that starts in two weeks? Now you have a near player mutiny, a popular veteran quitting out of principle, and you probably have more than a few players demanding to be traded. Great way to prepare for the season!
If I'm the owner of the White Sox I fire Williams today and beg LaRoche to come back; its the only way he has a shot of salvaging the 2016 season. I mean, the goal of the game is to win, and for me the only way to "fix" the massive clubhouse issue they've needlessly introduced is to get rid of the guy who caused it. Of course, maybe he doesn't give a sh*t; his season tickets are sold and he's raking in Chicago RSN money irrespective of whether his team wins 90 games or loses 90. Welcome to modern baseball ownership, where tanking is a-OK, nobody has to show their books and billionaire owners keep making more and more money every year.
Good times ahead on the South Side!
Posted in Baseball in General
Tagged with adam laroche, bob nightengale, chris sale, jeff passan, jerry reinsdorf, ken rosenthal, kenny williams
2014 Tommy John Post-Mortem
Jose Fernandez was (arguably) the biggest name to go down to TJ surgery in 2014. Photo via thestar.com
When we hit 20 MLB pitchers going under the knife for blown Ulnar Collateral Ligaments (UCL) on the 2014 season, I posted on possible reasons for the epidemic. By the time the season was over, more than 90 players in professional baseball (and a handful of marquee amateurs, including two first round picks and our own) had gone under the knife for blown UCLs/Tommy John surgery. 2014 was the year of the elbow ligament, no question, in terms of volume and awareness.
This post lists all the major league pitchers who had the surgery this year, with links to the announcements as they happened, along with stills of the pitchers' mechanics to do a quickie thumb nail analysis of mechanics and whether there's a relationship to the injury. At the bottom i've captured any significant news related to the surgery, MLB being proactive in preventing the injuries, and other TJ news.
First, here's the complete Tommy John fall-out for the year for major league arms. According to the great injury tracking links below, no less than 91 players in all levels of pro baseball had the surgery in calendar year 2014, of which 29 were MLB-experienced pitchers.
(data from baseballheatmaps.com, which has detailed Disabled List data).
Jonny Venters, recovering from his 2nd TJ surgery, re-tore the ligament and is going for his THIRD.
Jeremy Hefner, already on the shelf from a TJ surgery *last* year, suffered a big set-back and may have to have a 2nd procedure (announced 8/11/14)
Tyler Skaggs was diagnosed on 8/10/14 with needing the surgery.
Nate Jones: diagnosed 7/31/14.
Tyler Chatwood: diagnosed 7/17/14
Masahiro Tanaka, diagnosed with torn UCL 7/10/14; a huge blow, nearly as big of an announcement as Jose Fernandez' if he has to get TJ surgery. No announcement yet though that he's having the surgery. But, as of 8/5/14 he's re-habbing and experiencing no pain while throwing, and eventually was able to avoid the surgery. For now.
Bronson Arroyo diagnosed 7/8/14, a surprise considering his durability and soft-tossing nature.
Trevor Bell, diagnosed 4/23/14 but finally getting the surgery 7/16/14.
(… we go more than a month without another diagnosis after getting them nearly daily in April and May. Odd).
Sean Burnett: diagnosed 5/28/14 (would be his 2nd)
Chris Withrow: diagnosed 5/29/14 (though technically he'd been optioned to AAA; not sure if this should count as a MLBer)
Martin Perez: diagnosed 5/15/14
Jose Cisnero: diagnosed 5/14/14.
Jose Fernandez: diagnosed 5/13/14. Wow, biggest name to fall yet.
AJ Griffin: getting the surgery 4/27/14
Pedro Figueroa: diagnosed 4/24/14 (his 2nd, first in 2010)
Ivan Nova: diagnosed 4/25/14
Josh Johnson: diagnosed/announced 4/23/14, surgery 4/24/14. His 2nd (first in 2007).
Matt Moore: surgery 4/22/14
Cory Gearrin: diagnosed 4/8/14
Bobby Parnell: diagnosed 4/2/14
Erik Davis: diagnosed 4/2/14
David Hernandez: diagnosed 3/31/14
Peter Moylan: diagnosed 3/22/14 (his 2nd)
Bruce Rondon: diagnosed 3/21/14
Patrick Corbin: diagnosed 3/17/14
Jarrod Parker: diagnosed 3/17/14. (his 2nd)
Brandon Beachy: diagnosed 3/17/14 (his 2nd)
Kris Medlen: diagnosed 3/9/14. (his 2nd)
Luke Hochevar: announced 3/7/14
Cory Luebke: surgery in 2/4/14 (his 2nd)
10 of these 29 pitchers are getting the surgery for the 2nd time. Wow.
Here's links to other notable non-MLB pitchers who have gotten the surgery as well in 2014:
Jamison Taillon: the Pirates #1 pitching prospect and one of the best pitching prospects in the game. Diagnosed 4/6/14, surgery 4/9/14.
Danny Rosenbaum: Nats AAA starter and long-time farmhand. Surgery 5/8/14. Tough for Rosenbaum because he's a MLFA this coming off-season, now facing a very uncertain future.
Miguel Sano: one of the best prospects in the minors, had the surgery 3/12/14. He's not a pitcher, and he initially injured his arm playing in the Dominican Winter League, but it still costs Minnesota one of its best prospects.
Jeff Hoffman, ECU's right handed starter and consensus top 5 pick in the 2014 draft, hurt his arm and was diagnosed on 5/8/14. He dropped 5 places from his likely drafting spot by the Cubs at #4, which cost him about $X in slot dollars. We talked about whether the Nats (picking at #18) were a likely suitor for him at the time of the injury in early May.
Erick Fedde, UNLV's friday starter and projected mid-1st round pick, was diagnosed two days after Hoffman on 5/10/14. He dropped perhaps 8 places from his estimated drafting spot of mid 1st round and was picked by Washington. His injury didn't really cost him much in slot money thanks to the Nats paying over-slot.
Our own Matthew Purke, diagnosed and set for TJ surgery 5/29/14 after really struggling out of the gate this year for Harrisburg. Purke may face an options crunch by the time he's done re-habbing, thanks to his MLB deal signed on draft-day. (Update: the Nats never let him get there, releasing him on 11/14/14).
Chad Billingsley having flexor tendon surgery while trying to recover from his 2013 TJ surgery. This isn't counted as a TJ, but is noteworthy.
Not a pitcher, but key Orioles player Matt Wieters had to have TJ surgery on 6/18/14.
Matt Cain dodged a bullet by just being diagnosed with elbow chips, but still had season-ending elbow surgery on 8/5/14.
Padres uber-prospect and 2012 first rounder Max Fried went under the knife in mid-august.
Yu Darvish didn't fall victim to the TJ surgery, but an elbow issue is shutting him down in late August, just the latest nail in the coffin of the Rangers' season.
Jonathan Mayo discussion on elbow surgeries and prospects from Mid-Late August.
Here's quickie images of every MLB starter diagnosed this year as they land to make a quick judgement about their mechanics:
Quick and Dirty Mechanics analysis (images in same order as list of pitchers above, which is chronological in order of diagnosis in 2014):
Inverted W: Hefner, Skaggs, Withrow, Griffin, Nova, Gearrin, Beachy, Hochevar
Sideways M: Ventors, Chatwood, Bell, Burnett, Fernandez, Johnson, Davis, Moylan, Rondon, Parker, Medlen
Inverted L: Jones, Tanaka, Arroyo, Perez, Cisnero, Figueroa, Moore, Parnell, Hernandez, Corbin, Luebke
Conclusions? None. They're all over the road. TJ injuries this year happened to those thought to have "dangerous" mechanics and clean mechanics. TJ injuries happened to the league's harder throwers (Rondon, Ventors, Fernandez) and its softest throwers (Medlen and Arroyo, both of whom are usually at the absolute bottom of the league in terms of fastball velocity). Starters and relievers, no discernable pattern.
I think all you can conclude is this: if you throw a lot of innings, you're more prone to injury. I know, ground breaking analysis.
Other notable/interesting links I've collected on the topic over the length of the season:
Yahoo's Tim Brown interviewed Zack Greinke (published 5/15/14)who says he made a conscious decision to throw fewer sliders, noting that he could really feel it in his elbow after starts where he threw too many. This tends to support the notion that sliders make a difference.
Jerry Crasnick interviewed commissioner Bud Selig on 5/15/14 and Selig said he's "concerned." Great! On a scale of "Resolve Oakland/San Jose territorial rights" concerned to "Resolve MASN dispute" concerned, I wonder where he falls? Maybe he'll form a blue-ribbon committee that can meet for several years without arriving at any solutions.
Stephania Bell's articles on the spate of TJ injuries: from April and again in May.
Nate Silver's new blog 538 chimes in in mid-may.
Neil Weinberg from Peter Gammons' website posts his own theory on 5/16/14 that is basically related to the rise in youth/showcase events.
Shawn Anderson from the blog HallofVeryGood.com posts his theory (overuse).
An older link to Will Carrol from July 2013 talking about the surgery, how its done, who's had it and some other great stuff.
The American Sports Medicine Institute (led by Dr. James Andrews) released a statement on 5/28/14 on the issue of Tommy John surgeries (as pointed out by David Schoenfield and/or Craig Calcaterra in late may and/or Jerry Crasnick on the same day). Their basic point: don't throw with max effort.
Dr. James Andrews announced that he's releasing an app to help keep pitchers healthy. Per screen shots, it will be relatively simple and will have pitch counts, age and rest days calculate a max number of pitchers that a player can throw today.
An interesting analysis of Kansas City's Yordano Ventura after he was diagnosed with a non-UCL related elbow injury in May.
Thoughtful piece from Dirk Hayhurst about the quest for velocity and the value of soft-throwers like Mark Buehrle.
Danny Knobler special piece to the BleacherReport in June 2014 discussing "child abuse" of kids over-throwing, throwing too much, too hard, too soon.
A sleeve has been announced that may help prevent TJ injuries (its called the Motus Pitcher Sleeve). Dirk Hayhurst subsequently did some research and interviews about the sleeve and offers some thoughts.
CBS's Jon Heyman breaks the news that #1 overall pick Brady Aiken may have an "elbow ligament issue," thus holding up the signing. Wow. As we all know, this turned into a big-time stalemate, the non-signing of Aiken (which cascaded down and cost the Astros their 5th round pick too), possible grievances, possible lawsuits, all sorts of NCAA eligibility concerns, and a whole big black-mark for the Astros organization. All over $1.5M. Remember; this is the same team that gave $30M last off-season to 5th starter Scott Feldman.
There was a two hour special on the injury on MLB Radio Networks on 7/17/14 that I hope they replay or transcribe to the internet.
Bud Selig still awaits the Tommy John study in Mid July 2014. If its anything like his other blue-ribbon panels, he'll be waiting a long time.
Discussion about youths with UCL/TJ injuries in USA Today on 7/23/14.
Study from USA Today on how prep pitchers are avoiding TJ.
MLB unveils "Pitch Smart" guide in Mid November to help youth's understand workloads. Also discussed by Jeff Passan.
Hope you've found this trove of TJ links as interesting as I have.
Posted in Majors Pitching,Minor League Pitching
Tagged with aj griffen, bobby parnell, brady aiken, brandon beachy, bronson arroyo, bruce rondon, bud selig, chris withrow, cory gearrin, cory luebke, craig calcaterra, danny knobler, david hernandez, david schoenfield, dirk hayhurst, erik davis, ivan nova, james andrews, jarrod parker, jeff passan, jeremy hefner, jerry crasnick, jon heyman, jonny venters, jose cisnero, jose fernandez, josh johnson, kris medlen, luke hochevar, mark buehrle, martin perez, masahiro tanaka, matt moore, nate jones, nate silver, neil weinberg, patrick corbin, pedro figueroa, peter gammons, peter moylan, scott feldman, sean burnett, shawn anderson, stephania bell, tim brown, tommy john, trevor bell, tyler chatwood, tyler skaggs, will carrol, yordano ventura, zack greinke
Local 2014 Draft Prospects: Post-draft summary
Jacob Bukauskas was among the area's highest ranked draft prospect. Where'd he go? John McDonnell/Washington Post via getty images
We started looking at DC-local draft prospects early this spring with a comprehensive pre-season review of all local draft prospects. Then at mid-spring season we took at look at just the best local prospects. Now that the Rule 4 draft has occurred, lets talk about some of these big-time names from DC/MD/VA and who went where.
I'll list these players with local ties in the order they were drafted, which it should be noted, turned out to be vastly different from their pre-draft ranking order. Like with other posts, I'll put in rankings for the player from four reputable ranking sources pre-draft for prospects: Keith Law, Baseball America, MLB.com and MinorLeagueBall (though, as we'll see by the rankings below, I'm not sure I think MinorLeagueBall's rankings are worthy; they're *way* off on some players who went in the upper rounds). After the 10th round, we'll just focus on "name players" or high schoolers who got previous mention; lets be honest, the odds of a high school star being bought out of his college commitment drastically drops after just the first few rounds.
Editor's note: post-signing deadline I updated this with signing status and bonus for first 10 rounds of picks. Actual bonus tracker from MLB.com here, slot values for each pick here.
The MLB Draft Tracker is the best tool out there for finding info on players and is used heavily here.
1st Round/#19 overall by Cincinnati: Nick Howard, UVA rhp reliever (Law #63/BA #25/MLB #31/MinorLeagueBall #40). Jim Callis reports that Howard's stock was rising fast ahead of the draft, and MlbDraftInsider predicted an early 2nd round pick for Howard. Shocking everyone, he went right after the Nats picked at #19 in the first round. A surprise pick; he was projected to be just the third UVA player selected and perhaps a 2nd rounder. He was a Sunday starter for UVA but moved to the bullpen in 2014 and showed a significant strike-out tool (he had a 15.88 K/9 rate on the year, albeit in just 28 innings closing games for UVA). I wonder if Cincinnati is thinking they can move him back to a starting role, because drafting a reliever this high is (in some pundit's minds) a waste of a first round pick. Signed for $1.995M, $100k under slot.
Supp-1st Round/#37 overall by Houston: Derek Fisher, UVA OF (#15/#31/#26/#31). Keith Law video breakdown. Law predicted back of first round despite his ranking him as the 15th best prospect. Scout.com predicted the same. MlbDraftInsider predicted mid-first round. They were all wrong; Fisher lasted until the mid supplemental 1st round, and odds are that Houston got a steal of a player here. Fisher's production was hampered by a broken hamate bone this season, causing him to miss time and lose power, so this pick was projecting his excellent sophomore season. I think Houston will find a quick-to-the-majors corner outfielder who can slot nicely into a #2 or #6 slot. Signed for $1.534M, exactly slot.
Supp-1st Round/#38 overall by Cleveland: Mike Papi, UVA 1B/OF (#43/#43/#45/#81. Keith Law video breakdown. Law predicted mid 2nd round. MlbDraftInsider predicted early 2nd round. But Papi's strong finish clearly jumped him on Cleveland's board, who nabbed him in the supplemental first round. He profiles as a professional hitter, lots of line drives, lots of walks (I think of Nick Johnson). Signed for $1.25M, about $250k under slot.
2nd Round/#45 overall by Chicago Cubs: Jake Stinnett, SR RHP from U of Maryland (#51/#67/#72/#213??). Stinnett clearly made himself a ton of money with his showings at the ACC tournament (8ip, 3 ER and 10ks versus UVA) and the CWS regional (8ip, 3runs against ODU). He is the first college senior off the board, to a team (the Cubs) that is trying to rebuild itself, so one may wonder if this is a pre-negotiated/below-slot deal with a guy who won't have a ton of leverage so that the Cubs can throw extra cash later on. Either way, Stinnett was likely to go in the 2nd round regardless, so the Cubs don't do much of an over-draft here. Signed for exactly $1M, about $250k under slot.
3rd round/#78 overall by Chicago Cubs: Mark Zagunas, C from Virginia Tech ((Law out of top 100/#111/#149/#106). Zagunas profiles as a Jason Kendall like catcher; good defense, contact hitter who doesn't strike out a ton. But Law thinks he projects as a backup catcher and thinks this is a bit of an over-draft. No matter; Zagunas became one of the first players to sign when he took an under-slot deal over the weekend. Signed for 615K, about $100k underslot.
3rd round/#83 overall by Toronto: Nick Wells is a LHP from Battlefield HS in Gainesville (Law out of top 100/#119/Out of MLB's top 200/#343) who has a College of Charleston commit and who sits low-90s on the gun. He's popped up from being just a good HS pitcher to being a potential 3rd-4th rounder. Slot is $661k. Might be signable; that's a lot of money. Battlefield lost in the 6-A north regional quarters to McLean; i'm not sure which game Wells pitched (perhaps their first round game, a 4-0 win). UPdate: named to Baseball America's 2nd team All-American team for 2014. Signed for $661k, exactly slot.
4th Round/#111 overall by Seattle: Ryan Yarbrough, a senior LHP from ODU (na/#407/na/na) who I hadn't seen on any pre-draft rankings. I was surprised to find him at least on BA's list. He was a weekend starter (some Friday, some Saturday) for ODU this year but struggled to a 6-7, 4.50 ERA on the season. In the CWS regional he pitched in relief in the first of their two-and-out losses to Maryland. No offense to Yarbrough, but a 4th round senior draftee (slot value $471k) who likely is an org-arm more befitting of a mid-20s round pick looks like a complete money-saving move by Seattle to free up cash for other picks. Signed for just $40k, more than $430k under slot. Seattle went WAY over-slot with its 1st rounder and supp-2nd rounder and needed to make up for it with a ton of under-slot guys.
4th Round/#116 overall by Milwaukee: Troy Stokes from Calvert Hall College in Baltimore (na/#316/na/#260). He profiles as an undersized lead-off/CF and is committed to Maryland. I can see him signing for slot frankly based on this draft position. Maryland loses a recruit that could have really helped them. Signed for $400k, about $50k underslot.
4th Round/#127 overall by Tampa Bay: Blake Bivens is an RHP from George Washington HS (aka GW-Danville near the NC border) (na/#124/na/#140). He's committed to Liberty but has been consistently 90-93 on the gun with reports of good secondary stuff. Projected as possible 3rd-4th rounder and indeed that's where he went. GW-Danville is a 4-A school that got upset in their conference semis, hence his absence from the prep radar. His slot value is $404k; is that enough to get him out of going to Liberty? I would think so, even given Liberty's run to the CWS this year we're not talking about a big-time program (though, that being said, I don't know jack about Bivens personally, and he might be quite religious, which would explain his commitment to small-school liberty despite his talents). Named to Baseball America's 3rd team all-american. Signed for $462k, about $60k above slot.
7th Round/#213 overall by Kansas City: Brandon Downes, CF from UVA. I'd accuse this of being a money-saving senior sign draft pick, but Downes is a junior. Slot is $176k; if he gets slot he may sign. That's a lot of money. Signed for $150k, about $25k under slot. Not bad for a senior sign.
7th Round/#222 overall by Oakland: Brandon Cogswell, ss/2b from UVA (na/228/na/268). MLB's profile projects him as either a 2nd baseman or a utility guy professionally. I wonder if he'll sign; slot figure is $164k and he's a college junior. Maybe this is a peak for him. Signed for $200k, about $35k over slot.
8th/#226 by Houston: Bobby Boyd, an undersized junior CF from West Virginia U (not ranked on any list) but who hails from Silver Spring and who went to St. Johns. Completely unnoticed by any pre-draft ranking team; is this a punt of a draft pick? .356 average (good) but just a .389 OBP (bad … just 10 walks all year). Signed for $140k, about $20k under slot.
8th/#250 by Detroit: Artie Lewicki, UVA's mid-week/4th starter who got a ton of work in the ACC and regional tournaments. A nice senior draftee for Detroit. Signed for $60k, about $90k underslot.
10th and 14th rounds: the only two JMU players were taken; Ty McFarland and Chris Huffman. McFarland is a senior third baseman and son of the longtime JMU coach Spanky McFarland while Huffman is a junior RH who may opt to return in hopes of a bigger bonus next year.
15th/#454 by Washington: Ryan Ripken, 1B from Indian River CC but more famous for being the son of Cal Ripken, Jr. You can't help but make mention of this pick, not only because it was the Nats, but because of who it is. I can't find much of any scouting reports on the guy. MLB.com has a story with some more data.
17th/#540 by Washington: Alec Keller, a senior CF out of Princeton but who went to Douglas Freeman in Richmond. I had never heard of Keller, but then again I didn't really start following prep baseball closely until recently. Of interest; perfectgame lists him at 5'6″, 110lb but mlb.com lists him at 6'2″, 200lbs. That's one heck of a college growth spurt :-). I hope Keller gets some playing time in Viera and earns another summer of pro ball.
20th/#600 by Arizona: Jacob Bukauskus, RHP from Stone Bridge HS in Ashburn. Keith Law video breakdown. The local area's top ranked prospect, projected as a mid-to-late first round pick, goes 600th overall. Bukauskas had informed all interested teams that he's honoring his commitment to UNC. the thought was that a team might draft him early 2nd round and offer him a huge-overslot deal (as Law thought would happen, with a potential $2M bonus). Alas it did not, and this 20th round pick seems like a waste of a pick frankly. In late May he was named the Gatorade State player of the year. Baseball America 1st team All-American for 2014. Stats for the season: 7-0, 0.00 ERA. Word came out during the regional tournament that Bukauskas was being shut-down due to shoulder tendinitis; this likely was the reason he didn't get drafted earlier. It looks like he's getting his wish and going to school. UNC must be ecstatic.
20th/#614 by Boston: Devon Fisher is a catcher from 6-A south champions and state favorite Western Branch HS (Portsmouth). UVA commit. Projects as a 4th rounder, not picked til the 20th. Another likely victim of the new draft rules; in years past a saavy team like Boston would just throw $1M at him in the 20th and he'd sign. Instead UVA likely gets a big-time player coming to school. Update: Fisher signed with Boston instead of going to UVA.
21st/#634 by Washington: Connor Bach, SR LHP from VMI. I had no recollection of him previously, but NatsGM Ryan Sullivan reports that he played in the Cal Ripken league and left an impression.
22nd/#675 by St. Louis: Derek Casey is an RHP from Hanover HS (Mechanicsville) with a UVA commit. 93-94 on the gun. Projects as possible 3rd rounder. Casey led Hanover to the 2013 AAA Virginia state title and Hanover is the favorite to win the 4-A title this year. Another great sign for UVA; Casey likely is going to school.
32nd/#958 by San Francisco: Hunter Williams is a two-way lefty player from Cosby HS in Chesterfield, VA who has skills both on the mound at at the plate. He's limited to first base in the field, which may make it tougher for him to get drafted and developed. 91 on the gun. UNC commit, it should be interesting to see which way he focuses. Projects as a 4th-5th rounder.
35th/#1050 by Arizona: Justin Morris is a C from DeMatha HS who plays for the 2013 PerfectGame national champions EvoShield Canes traveling team (east-coast based travel team with a ton of big-time names matriculating these days). He's a Maryland commit but didn't improve his draft stock much throughout the year. He was #295 on minorleagueball's pre-season list but doesn't get picked until garbage time in the draft. Pre-season PG all-Atlantic 1st team.
35th/#1054 by Washington: Flint Hill's Tommy Doyle, a UVA commit who I didn't think was a draft prospect, but who the Nats picked up in the 35th round likely to curry favor to a local interest.
40th/#1096 by Milwaukee, Taylor Lane, a shortstop from Chesapeake but attending HS in Florida at the IMG academy. Florida commit.
Local Names of note not drafted at all:
Charlie Cody is a 3B from the same Great Bridge HS in Chesapeake that just graduated Connor Jones. He's committed to UVA. His stock seems to have dropped this spring and he's joining Jones at UVA; he did not get picked at all.
Jeff Harding is a senior RHP from the Cambridge-South Dorchester school that just made it to Maryland 1-A's state semis (after winning the title last year). He's committed to South Carolina. I thought he'd at least get a late-round courtesy pick, but I guess not.
Brodie Leftridge is an OF from Highland MD who played for St. Johns in DC with a Tennessee commit.
Zach Clinton is a RHP from Forest, VA, plays for Liberty Christian HS (the Virginia state private schools champ) and is committed to Liberty. On 5/27/14 he was named the co-state player of the year for private schools (along with Tommy Doyle). No love from MLB teams though; he went undrafted and looks like he's heading to his home town college.
Hunter Taylor, a C from Nandua HS in Olney, VA. Named to the Baseball America 2nd team all-American list, was not drafted. Committed to South Carolina.
Pavin Smith is a big lefty 1B/OF two-way player from Florida who will attend UVA after not signing. It seems like he could slot right into the departing Mike Papi/Derek Fisher lineup holes.
Bennett Sousa is a LHP from Florida who now will attend UVA. 93mph, seems like he will slot into their rotation in a year's time.
Summary: UVA has a ton of players drafted (no less than 8, and 7 of them likely are signing). But they have a ton of commits from major names who didn't get drafted and/or who got drafted so late that they stand little chance of signing. Devon Fisher, Derek Casey, Tommy Doyle and Charlie Cody are all UVA commits likely going to school. UNC also makes out like a bandit, getting both Bukauskas and Williams to school. And Maryland looks like it will get at least two very decent players coming to school in Morris and Harding.
Some useful draft links for you:
Here's the first round draft order for the 2014 draft. Nats pick #18th.
Detailed first round order (and why teams gained or lossed picks) from Bill Chuck on GammonsDaily.com.
Allmetsports.com DC area Baseball signing status for all notable local players.
BaseballAmerica's Draft Preview with write-ups on top 200 players. Furthermore for subscribers they have a top 500 list and Links to final college stats of all BA top-200 players.
Keith Law's Mock Draft and top-100 list. (espn insider only).
MLB.com's top 100 Prospect Watch
MinorLeagueBall's Matt Garrioch's top 350 draft prospects. But more importantly his Mid-Atlantic draft preview, a great resource with home towns and college commitments of all DC/MD/VA players.
MLB.com's draft central home page, which includes the incredibly useful Draft Tracker database, which lets you search for players by Name, position, home state, school, etc.
Yahoo's Jeff Passan obtained copies of the letters MLB sent both to agents and teams, describing the "rules of behavior" agents and teams are supposed to follow.
Draft Slot assigned bonus values per BA for the first 10 rounds. After round 10, every subsequent spot has a slot value of $100k. Here's a link to the total bonus pool per team: Nats are at $5.275M for the whole draft.
Quick link to the college stats of BA's top prospects.
d1baseball.com as an entry point to get to any college's statlines.
MinorLeagueBall review of undrafted/unsigned prep players and their outlook for the 2017 draft.
Posted in Draft,Local Baseball
Tagged with alec keller, artie lewicki, bennett sousa, bill chuck, blake bivens, bobby boyd, brandon cogswell, brandon downes, brodie leftridge, cal ripken, charlie cody, chris huffman, connor bach, derek casey, derek fisher, devon fisher, hunter williams, jacob bukauskas, jake stinnett, jason kendall, jeff harding, jeff passan, jim callis, justin morris, keith law, mark zagunas, matt garrioch, mike papi, nick howard, nick johnson, nick wells, pavin smith, ryan ripken, ryan yarbrough, spanky mcfarland, taylor lane, tommy doyle, troy stokes, ty mcfarland, zach clinton
First Look: Nats top 10 draftees from 2014 Rule-4 Draft
Suarez is the Nats 2nd round pick. Photo via 247sports.com
As we did last year, here's a quick introduction to the Nats top 10 picks for 2014.
A quick glance on our high-end draftees from 2014 draft. I'll put in the rankings from several prospect ranking shops (Keith Law, Baseball America, MLB.com and MinorLeagueBall). overall player ranking after the player name where appropriate (though as we'll see, Keith's top 100 quickly runs out of names). Here's a link to the draft order, and here's a link to MLB.com's fantastic draft tracker database for reference.
As he did last year, NatsGM.com's Ryan Sullivan is live-blogging and does a great job of pulling up stats on each of our picks. I depend on his reports as well as those from the four links above to give a quick overview of our draftees.
Note: I wrote most of this over the weekend as the guys were picked; we're already hearing plenty of rumors about signings. I havn't updated this post with such intel but I'm sure its readily available from Ladson and Kilgore and the like.
1st round/#18 overall: Erick Fedde, UNLV RHP (Law #27/BA #24/MLB #33/MinorLeagueBall #70). Most of the credible mock drafts had the Nats drafting Fedde here, and that's exactly what happened. In my quickie preview post, I thought Fedde would be an overdraft and hoped that either Tyler Beede or Brandon Finnegan would drop. Well, Beede went 14th and Finnegan went 17th. I liked Touki Toussant as well as a prep HS that may drop to the Nats, but he went 16th. I'm not sure I agree with pundits who say that Fedde was a "top 10 talent" prior to his injury; I still think this is an overdraft on Fedde given the fact that he's rehabbing a blown UCL. Look at the placement of Fedde on the four prospect ranking shops; that's an awful lot of trust being placed into the hands of the surgeon, the rehab process, and the recovery. That being said, looking at the next several players picked, there wasn't a name that really stood out as someone that I would have rather had who at the same time was a prototypical Mike Rizzo pick Maybe Connor Gillaspie would have worked (he went #20). Ryan Sullivan thinks we got a steal here; i'm not so sure. I think the Nats were looking at their board while the Giants were picking at #14, and then had their next best three names get snatched out from under them, leaving them taking a gamble on Fedde.
On the player himself; Fedde is tall (6'4″) but *skinny* (listed at between 165 and 180), sits 91-93 and touched 95 with excellent movement. Secondary pitches can flatten out because of his lower arm slot, but he's listed with a decent slider and decent change. ESPN thinks he projects a 65 fastball and a 60 slider but needs to work on his command. Very preliminary ceiling/projection is as a mid-rotation starter. The thought is that he can fill out his frame and add velocity, though he's done neither in his three college years.
He's a Scott Boras client, he was a HS teammate of Bryce Harper, and he's rehabbing a torn UCL, so he fits in nicely with the Nats on several levels. It was easy to see why the mock drafts were all over the Nats taking Fedde. In reality, I'll bet the war room was rather dejected watching the three a-forementioned pitchers drop off the board in the 4 preceding picks to #18.
2nd round/#57 overall: Andrew Suarez, LHP from U-Miami (Law out of top 100/BA #75/MLB #86/MinorLeagueBall #103). A re-draft (he was picked in the 9th round out of HS but chose to go to school), he suffered a torn labrum early in his college career but reportedly picked up velocity this past season and held it through most of the year. Law alludes to other medical issues that clearly had him down on Suarez (Law ranked him lowest of my 4 resources). He spent the year as Miami's saturday starter (aka, their #2 starter). BA mentioned him in their draft preview specifically because of his fantastic control; he had just a 1.34 BB/9 rate despite throwing a low 90s fastball that can reach 95. He pitched a shut-out in game 1 of the Coral Gables regional, a 7-hit, 10K, 0 walk outing that matched his career high; nice way to finish off your college career (Miami was elminated from CWS play before Suarez could throw again). Scouting reports say he profiles as a 4th starter. (Note: my fingers just automatically typed Luis Suarez, aka Liverpool and Uruguay's striker. Part of me is in World Cup mode already).
3rd round/#93 overall: Jakson Reetz, prep Catcher from Nebraska (#38/#62/#40/#36). A prep catcher isn't who you normally expect to see this high on the National's draft results, but his pre-draft rankings show that he's clearly a steal at the mid-3rd round. The question is; is he signable here? $567k is his bonus slot figure; he might be a tough sign unless the Nats have a pre-draft deal with Fedde to save some money for a guy like Reetz. His pedigree is good: MVP of the PG all-american game, member of the same world champion U-18 team that #1 overall pick Brady Aiken was on. In prep games he was showing 91 from the mound and reportedly has a great arm, but some scouting reports say he may struggle to stay behind the plate. As pointed out by NatsGM.com's Ryan Sullivan, BA did a "day in the life" piece on Reetz that is worth checking out; once you watch this you'll really like Reetz. Last note: Keith Law even likes the pick and says he'll sign.
4th round/#124 overall: Robbie Dickie, juco RHP from Blinn college in Texas (na/210/179/173). 95-97 on the gun, led his team to the Juco World Series, but he may project as a reliever thanks to questionable mechanics. Quite a pop-up guy, but an over draft based on the rankings in the major publications. He's committed to Texas State if he doesn't sign, which isn't exactly a baseball powerhouse, so is this a value/slot saving pick?
5th Round/ #154 overall: Drew Van Orden, a senior RHP from Duke (na/395/na/na). Good numbers on the year as Duke's Friday starter (6-5, 3.19 ERA, more than a k/inning). He finished off his college career with a 5-hit complete game shutout over Georgia Tech in the ACC tournament, Duke's only win in their post-season tournament. I like his pedigree despite the fact that he's a senior 5th round pick with zero leverage. Who are the Nats saving all this money for? Update: Van Orden quickly signed, terms undisclosed.
6th Round/#184 overall: Austen Williams, junior RHP from Texas State ( na/#276/na/na). Nats clearly saw something in Williams that other draft pundits did not; even MinorLeagueBall (who ranked to 350) didn't have him listed. Texas State's friday starter continues a long trend of the Nats plucking talent out of Texas. Williams posted solid numbers as Texas State's Friday starter (8-3, 3.65 era, good K/9 rates). I'm sure he'll take a bit more than slot to sign, but the Nats should have some pennies saved.
7th Round/#214 overall: Dale (D.K.) Kerry, a senior Center fielder from the U of Miami (na/#332/na/#133). MLB's scouting report on him says he's a great athlete and he has a "4th outfielder" projection. Sounds like the perfect senior 7th round draft pick to me (sarcasm). Ryan Sullivan is more bullish on him than I.
8th Round/#244 overall: Jeff Gardner, senior corner OF from Louisville (na/498/na/na). He may be a senior, but he's also the clean-up hitter for a CWS-bound team and had great stats on the year (.321/.403/.538 with 9 homers). Not a bad find for the 8th round.
9th Round/#274 overall: Austin Byler, junior 1B from Nevada (94/123/166/271). Well, now we see why the Nats are saving their pennies; getting Byler here is a find. He should have been taken in the 3rd or 4th round if you believe the pundits, and he may take an over-slot deal to buy him out of his senior year. He's got serious power (he led his conference in homers and is an offensive threat) and would be a great find if he signs.
10th Round/#304 overall: Matthew Page, senior RF from Oklahoma Baptist (na/na/na/na). A d-2 pick for a team that a) loves guys from the south west already and b) has shown itself more than willing to gamble on non D-I players. I can't imagine he'll be expensive to sign. He's also the first player the Nats have picked that didn't appear anywhere on any of the draft previews.
Summary: Through the first 10 rounds the Nats picked 5 pitchers and 5 hitters for good balance. Of these 10 players selected, 9 are college. So, in other words, this is exactly the type of draft we expect to see out of a Rizzo-run organization (with the possible exception of perhaps predicting a few more arms).
Of these 10 draftees, I'd say that at least 5 are "expected under slot guys" (Dickie, Van Orden, Kerry, Gardner and Page). You have to think the team may play some slot hardball with Fedde. Suarez and Williams should sign for about slot. That leaves two guys who may take over-slot deals to sign; the sole HS draftee in Reetz and the decently ranked Byler. I'll bet it works out and all 10 guys sign.
At mlb.com, here's a tracker of the top 10 rounds of signings with known bonus figures.
MinorLeagueBall's Matt Garrioch's top 350 draft prospects. But more importantly his Mid-Atlantic draft preview, a great resource with home towns and college committments of all DC/MD/VA players.
Quick link to the college stats of BA's top prospects
PerfectGame.org for information on prep players, college committments, etc
d1baseball.com as an entrypoint to get to any college's statlines.
Posted in Draft
Tagged with adam kilgore, andrew suarez, austen williams, austin byler, bill chuck, bill ladson, brady aiken, brandon finnegan, bryce harper, connor gillaspie, dale kerry, drew van orden, erick fedde, jakson reetz, jeff gardner, jeff passan, keith law, luis suarez, matt garrioch, matthew page, mike rizzo, robbie dickie, ryan sullivan, scott boras, touki toussant, tyler beede
TJ Surgery epidemic: upbringing, showcases and mechanics
Jose Fernandez is (arguably) the biggest name to go down to TJ surgery yet. Photo via thestar.com
Its the biggest story in baseball so far in 2014. We've had nearly 20 MLB pitchers get diagnosed with torn elbow ligaments so far this calendar year. All of them have or are set to undergo "Tommy John" surgery (also known as ulnar collateral ligament/UCL replacement surgery). That's nearly as many as who got the surgery ALL of 2013 and we're just 6 weeks into the season. There's an alarming trend upwards over just the past few seasons of pitchers getting this surgery. There's been plenty more minor leaguers (two Nats farmhands in Erik Davis and Danny Rosenbaum have already gotten it in 2014) and already a couple of very high-profile draft prospects as well (including as discussed in this space potential 1st rounders Jeff Hoffman and Erick Fedde just in the last week).
Lots of people are talking about this story, especially some heavy-weights in the baseball world. A sampling:
Dr. James Andrews, perhaps the most famous sports doctor in the world, attributes the growing trend to the rise in year-round baseball competition in the US.
SI.com's Jay Jaffe reviews Dr. Andrews comments and had other excellent stats about the trend in this April 2014 piece.
The Washington Post's Dave Sheinin did an excellent piece in the paper a few weeks ago about the injury, which he attributes to youth usage.
Tom Verducci (he of the "Verducci effect") proposed a solution in a column this week after the Jose Fernandez announcement. His idea? Lowering the mound across all levels of the sport. He draws this conclusion after hosting a very interesting round-table on MLB Network.
Jayson Stark teamed up with ESPN injury analyst Stephania Bell and former player Alex Cora to discuss the rise in arm injuries in this ESPN.com video, and they follow Andrews' theory of year-round pitching.
Chris O'Leary, king of the Inverted-W (whether you believe his theories or not, I've included this link here) has his own theories as discussed here. He doesn't really have much in the way of explanation, just more whining about how every pitcher's mechanics has something you can complain about.
Jeff Passan basically calls out baseball executives for not having any answers.
If you want an index of all of ESPN.com's stories on the topic, click here. It will have columns, analysis and press releases for individuals getting the surgery.
Some interesting stats about Tommy John surgery:
Per a Will Carroll 2013 study, roughly 1/3 of current MLB pitchers in the majors have had the surgery.
Per a study by the American Journal of Sports Medicine, of those pitchers who have the surgery, about 83% make it back to the majors and 97% returned to pro pitching. Only five of 179 pitchers in the study failed to return to their craft.
The number of pitchers getting TJ surgery has risen dramatically in just the past few years, from a couple dozen in the early part of last decade to nearly 70 a couple of years ago.
So what the heck is going on?? Lets talk about some theories. I'll highlight them in Blue.
The new "hot theory" is essentially this: Over-throwing at Showcase events, which have become crucial scouting events for kids raised in the United States, are to blame. Thanks to the rise in travel leagues and select teams, scouts spend less time sitting at high school games and more time at these all-star events. To prescribers of this theory, it isn't so much about the amount of innings or pitches that kids throw … its the nature of the "showcase" events and the high pressure situations that those events put kids under. Kids are throwing year-round, and they're ramping up max-effort pitches at national competitions multiple times per year, and in some cases out of "season." This leads to serious damage to kids' arms done as 16 and 17 yr olds, which then manifests itself over the years and results in blown ligaments in pro ball.
Do you buy this explanation? It certainly makes sense to me, but how do you prove this? And, it doesn't explain the similar rise in elbow injuries to non-American pitchers.
Is it less about the showcase events and more about the Larger Increase in Youth pitched innings thanks to the rise in Travel Leagues? This theory also makes some sense to me: thirty years ago kids played an 18-20 game spring Little League season, at best would pitch half those games and that was it. Maybe they played in the fall too, but there were specific innings limits in place that protected kids. Now instead of playing limited spring and fall seasons, kids are playing AAU travel teams that play 40-50 games a summer, plus weekend tournaments, plus (eventually) the above showcase events as they get closer to matriculation. This theory certainly is supported by a startling rise in youth arm injuries, as noted in this 2010 study by the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons.
But, if its "bad" to play more baseball … then shouldn't we be seeing even MORE injuries from players who grew up in third-world baseball hot beds like the Dominican Republic or Venezuela, where by all accounts kids play baseball from sun-up to sun-down 12 months out of the year in tropical climates?
Interestingly, of the list of 19 MLB players so far who have been diagnosed with a torn UCL (see next section), there's 4 non-American developed pitchers (Rondo, Nova, Figueora, Cisnero). 4 of 19 = 21%, whereas about 22% of MLB pitchers are non-American developed (my 22% figure comes from this quick study that I did; I grabbed every active MLB pitcher as of early May 2014 and did a quick-and-dirty player upbringing analysis to determine that about 78% of players "grew up" in the current American system of player development). It is small sample size … but the percentage of american versus foreign developed players are so far exactly in line with the total percentage of each type of player in the larger pool of MLB pitchers. This doesn't seem to support either of the two above theories.
We've all heard horror stories about pitch counts and pitcher abuse at high school events in Japan (this came to light over the winter as we looked at Masahiro Tanaka and learned about these Japanese showcase events; this article here at thebiglead.com talks about one Japanese prospect's 772 pitches thrown over 9 days, and Jeff Passan talked about Tanaka's own pitch count abuse stories and his average pitch counts as a Japanese-league pro). Unfortunately there's not a ton of data available about this TJ theory and Japanese pitchers. I can find a couple of instances of Asian pitchers getting the surgery (Kyuji Fujikawa in 2012 being the most recent example), but not enough to establish any trends.
But lets state it this way: you can't have things both ways. Both these stereotypes about player upbringing cannot be true:
Latin American poor youth plays baseball from sun up to sun down 12 months a year, building arm strength constantly, therefore his arm is "stronger" and he's less suceptible to injury
American little leaguer plays limited schedules (18 games in the spring, perhaps fewer in the fall), has closely monitored pitch counts, therefore does not abuse his arm as a youth and thus his arm is "stronger" later in life as a result.
Here's a list of the 19 MLB pitchers who have already gone under the TJ knife so far in 2014 (data from baseballheatmaps.com, which has detailed Disabled List data).
Of these 19 pitchers, they are evenly split between being starters (10) and relievers (9). So that doesn't seem to lend itself to any Starter vs Reliever usage conclusion.
How about Pitching Mechanics? We've all heard ad-naseum about the "Inverted W" and people talking about pronation and timing and elbow lift and etc etc. Here's a quick attempt to analyize the mechanics of each of these 19 guys (all photos grabbed as thumbnails from google images for the purposes of demonstration; no copyright infringement intended).
Quick and Dirty Mechanics analysis (images in same order as list of pitchers above, which is choronological in order of diagnosis in 2014):
Inverted W: Griffin, Nova, Gearrin, Beachy, Hochevar
Sideways M: Fernandez, Johnson, Davis, Moylan, Rondon, Parker, Medlen
Inverted L: Cisnero, Figueroa, Moore, Parnell, Hernandez, Corbin, Luebke
But I'll immediately add a caveat to these classifications; at various stop-points in a guy's delivery, he may exhibit "good" or "bad" trends. Maybe some of these "sideways-M" guys are actually "inverted-W" guys. Maybe some of these inverted-W guys are ok and the stills make their mechanics seem worse than they are.
Nonetheless; there's no trend among the 19 guys in terms of their mechanics. In some cases they're "bad" (Griffin and Gearrin's look awful) but in some cases excellent (nobody should look at Moore's mechanics and say they're anything but clean, nor with Parnell or Corbin). These pitchers are overhanders, 3/4-slot guys and even side-armers/submarine guys (Gearrin and Moylan). These guys include hard throwers (Rondon had the 3rd highest velocity of *any* pitcher in 2013) and softer-throwing guys (Medlen had one of the lowest fastball velocities in the majors in 2013). There's starters and relievers almost equally represented in this list.
Conclusion; there's no conclusions to draw from pitching mechanics analysis. I think all attempts to look at guys' mechanics and make judgements are useless. I think (as does Keith Law and other pundits in the field) that the "Inverted W" is nonesense and that "research" posted online by concerned-fathers-turned-self-appointed-mechanics-experts is not exactly trustworthy. The fact of the matter is this: throwing a baseball over and over is hard on the body. Throwing a ball is an unnatural motion, and throwing a ball at max-effort will eventually lead to pitching injuries, no matter what your mechanics. They can be "good" or "bad" according to someone's pet theory on bio-mechanics and it has nothing to do about whether a pitcher is going to throw 10 seasons without injury or have two tommy johns before they're 25.
Some historical context for pitching mechanics arguments: the pitcher who has the 2nd most innings thrown in the non-knuckleballer modern era (behind Nolan Ryan) was Don Sutton. Sutton displayed absolutely *classic* inverted-W mechanics, never hit the D/L in his career and threw nearly 5,300 innings over the course of 23 seasons. Walter Johnson's mechanics were awful; he slung the ball sideways as he literally pushed backwards away from the hitter at the end of his delivery. If someone saw Johnson's mechanics today they'd talk about how over-compensated he was on his shoulder and how he lost velocity thanks to landing stiff and having zero follow through. Johnson only threw 5,900 innings in his pro career; yeah those mechanics really held him back. Nolan Ryan was a freak of nature, throwing at that velocity for as long as he did. The point? You just don't know.
Maybe there's something to the "showcase abuse" theory for some players. Maybe there's something to the travel-ball overuse theory for some kids. But I think the answer may be a bit more simple. We all know there's been a rise in the average MPH of fastballs in the majors, both on starters and especially with relievers. My theory is simply this: kids who "can" throw upper 90s spend all their time trying to throw upper 90s/max effort fastballs 100% of the time, and human arms just cannot withstand that kind of abuse over and over. In prior generations, kids who "could" throw that hard wouldn't, or would rarely try to throw that hard, and thus suffered fewer elbow injuries.
Side note: I also firmly believe that we're "victims of our own success" to a certain extent with respect to modern medicine; 30 years ago would someone have just "blown out their arm" instead of being diagnosed specifically with a "torn ulnar collateral ligament?" Would some kid in the low minors who hurt his harm even bother to get an MRI? How much of the rise in these injuries is simply the fact that we're better at diagnosing injuries in the modern sports world?
Why are these kids trying to throw so hard these days? Because velocity is king, and that's what scouts look for. A kid who "only" throws mid 80s as a 17-yr old is dismissed, while the kid who can throw mid 90s at the same age is fawned over. Guys like Greg Maddox, Mark Buehrle, and Tom Glavine probably don't even get drafted in the modern baseball climate thanks to the over-focus on pure velocity.
You can talk about upbringing and showcase events and pitch counts and mechanics all you want, but I think it comes down to Pitcher over-exertion thanks to the rising trend of fastball velocity and the human nature urge of prospects and farm-hands to show more and more velocity so they can advance their careers.
What do you guys think? Do you dismiss the "inverted-W" arguments like I do? Do you think its all about showcase events?
Tagged with aj griffen, bobby parnell, brandon beachy, bruce rondon, chris oleary, cory gearrin, cory luebke, danny rosenbaum, dave sheinin, david hernandez, don sutton, erick fedde, erik davis, greg maddox, ivan nova, james andrews, jarrod parker, jay jaffe, jayson stark, jeff hoffman, jeff passan, jose cisnero, jose fernandez, josh johnson, keith law, kris medlen, kyuji fujikawa, luke h ochevar, mark buehrle, masahiro tanaka, matt moore, nolan ryan, patrick corbin, pedro figueroa, peter moylan, stephania bell, tom glavine, tom verducci, tommy john, walter johnson, will carroll
Have we seen the last 300-game winner? (updated post 2013 season)
Sabathia remains the best chance for another 300-game winner .. Photo wiki/flickr chris.ptacek
Welcome to the latest installment of the "Will we ever see another 300-game winner" post.
(Aside; yes I know the limitations of the "win" statistic. However, nobody looks at a 20-game winner on the season or a 300-game winner for his career and excuses it as a statistical aberration; the pitcher win will continue to be important to players and in the lexicon of the game for years to come, despite Brian Terry's #killthewin campaigns).
Of the 24 pitchers in the game's history to have reached the 300-game plateau, 4 of them have done it in the last decade (they being Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, and Tom Glavine). However, there exists a distinct belief in the game that we may not see another 300-game winner for some time, thanks to pitch count obsessions, innings limits, 5-man rotations, NL small-ball managing, match-up relievers and generally a huge rise in bullpen usage over the last 20 years.
In the past year, I've collected some topical reading related to this post:
Rob Neyer posted about Felix Hernandez upon his reaching 100 wins in April 2013.
Jay Jaffe asked whether we'll even get 200-game winners going forward in May 2013.
Jeff Passan tacked this same topic in May 2013 and mentioned some names that we now know are definite longshots thanks to injury.
Craig Calcaterra predictably whined about people's obsession with wins when Sabathia hit 200 career wins in July 2013.
Here's a fun graphics-intensive post at HighHeatStats about 200 and 300 game winners from July 2013.
Lastly, here's an analysis of CC Sabathia's decline in 2013 from Alex Keinholz on BeyondtheBoxScore from July 2013
When we first broached this topic (in April 2009), Sabathia was still the best bet (outside of Randy Johnson, who sat at 296 before the 2009 season began), but it didn't look that good for anyone else to reach the plateau, and a couple of the names we guessed as having an outside shot (Ervin Santana and Scott Kazmir) seem like ridiculous choices now. When we most recently broached this topic (at the end of the 2012 season), we explained some statistical models we and others were using to try to predict who may have the next best shot at reaching the mark. We concluded that Sabathia and Hernandez were both pretty good guesses at the time to reach the plateau.
How are things looking now?
I maintain a spreadsheet (uploaded to google and/or available via the links to the right of this page) that ranks candidates using a couple of formulas inspired by Jay Jaffe (see 2012's post for the full thought process behind them). Basically Jaffe's prediction models assume that the pitcher can win X games per year after a set age (in Jaffe's case, his simple formula assumes pitchers win 15 games/year until their age 42 season, a relatively optimistic projection and hence why he self-titles it using the words "blindingly optimistic"). I've used a couple other methods to rank pitchers (calculating average number of wins past the age of 18 or 23, but since some guys get drafted out of HS and debut at 20 or 21 these projections end up looking ridiculous), in order to find candididates to put into the discussion. I also don't really even consider a guy until he gets to 50 career wins, so there's no wild speculation about someone like Shelby Miller (15 wins in his age 22 season) or Jose Fernandez (12 wins in his age 20 season).
So, without further ado, here's a list of starters right now who are in the conversation of possibly reaching 300 wins in their career and my % chance opinion of getting there.
pitcher age wins % Chance of making 300 wins
CC Sabathia 32 205 75%
Clayton Kershaw 25 77 50%
Felix Hernandez 27 110 10%
Justin Verlander 30 137 10%
Madison Bumgarner 24 49 5%
Trevor Cahill 25 61 5%
Zack Greinke 29 106 5%
Mark Buehrle 34 186 1%
Rick Porcello 24 61 0%
Yovani Gallardo 27 81 0%
Matt Cain 28 93 0%
Thoughts per starter:
CC Sabathia remains the pitcher with the best chance of reaching 300 wins, but i've downgraded his probability from last year's 90% to just 75% right now. Why? Well read no further than the link about his 2013 decline, where his FB velocity dropped, his ERA rose and he posted a sub 100 ERA+ value for the first time in his career. He still won 14 games, but his win totals have declined four years in a row. On the plus side, he's a workhorse pitching for a team that historically has a great offense, which enables him to get wins despite an inflated ERA (he had 4 or more runs of support in 20 of his 32 starts in 2013 … Stephen Strasburg just started crying). It still seems entirely plausible he can average at least 10-12 wins for the next 7 seasons and hit the milestone before hanging them up.
Clayton Kershaw improves his probability of hitting the plateau from last year to this year based on two factors: First, he has clearly stepped up and is now the pre-eminent starter in the game and seems set to continue to post 16-20 win seasons for the extended future. Secondly, the Dodgers now spend money like no other, ensuring a winning team that gets Kershaw victories even if he's not pitching his best. He was "only" 16-9 in 2013; I would expect him to put up more wins each season in the next few years, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him with 160 career wins before he's 30.
Felix Hernandez's chances have plummetted; going from 75% last year to just 10%. Why such a precipitous drop? Two factors; first he took a noted step back in FB velocity this year, to the point where pundits were questioning his arm strength. Secondly, he signed a massive deal to stay in Seattle … and Seattle right now is not a winner. It has a completely dysfunctional ownership and management group and seemingly has no idea how to put together a baseball team. They're competing in a division of teams with better management willing to spend more money, and these factors are going to continue to have Hernandez put up the 13-14 win seasons he has been doing for the last four years. He's already 27: if he's doesn't have back to back 20 win seasons his chances are kaput.
Justin Verlander, like Hernandez and Sabathia, also had a curious drop in performance in 2013, leading me to drop his 300-game chances from one in three to one in ten. At age 30 he has logged just 137 wins and has gone from 24 to 17 to 13 in the last three seasons. If he can right the ship and get back to the 18-20 game win plateau, he can get his 300-game mojo back, but at age 30 he's less than halfway there, so chances are looking pretty slim.
Madison Bumgarner appears here mostly because of his advanced win totals at such a young age; he already has 49 career wins before his 24th birthday. He's averaging 14 wins a season so far, and with a 14 win average in every season between now and his age 40 year he'd hit his mark. But I have his chances right now at only 5%; its just too early to really tell if Bumgerner will have the endurance and continued success to get there. Plus, is Bumgarner an elite starter or more in the mold of a Mark Buehrle (i.e., a durable lefty who grinds out 13-14 win seasons for a decade)?
Trevor Cahill is in nearly the same boat as Bumgarner, except that I don't think he's quite as good. In fact, Cahill seems like he's bound for Mark Buehrle territory (see below); an innings eating guy who is always right around the 13-12 mark each season. If he does this for the next 15 years, he may get close. I give him a slight chance.
Zack Greinke has gone from not even being considered to having a 5% chance. Why? Well he's signed a huge long term deal with a very good team AND he now pitches in both the NL and in a pitcher's park. In 2013 he put up a very quiet 15-4 record and I think with his stuff and his health he could put up multiple 16-18 win seasons. That'd get him to the mid 200s by the time he's nearing 40 … maybe enough to have him go for it while pitching into his early 40s. Or maybe not; by the time he's 40 he'll likely have nearly $250M in career earnings and may just buy a ranch somewhere.
Mark Buehrle's career 162 game average W/L record (14-11) is identical to Bumgarner's. In his last 5 season's he's won 13 games four times and 12 games once. I have given him a 1% chance of hitting 300 on the off-chance that he pitches well into his mid 40s, continues to put up 4th starter figures and finishes with a career record of something like 302-285. He doesn't miss many starts, so perhaps he's that durable.
The last three guys mentioned (Rick Porcello, Yovani Gallardo and Matt Cain) are all given 0% chances at this point but are listed thanks to their advanced win totals by their mid 20s. Cain's sudden drop off in 2013 (a common theme in this list) has seemingly cost him any shot at reaching 300 wins despite his normal sturdiness. Gallardo had a 10% chance last year and drops to zero thanks to my having almost no confidence that he is a good enough pitcher to accumulate enough wins going forward. And Porcello remains essentially a 5th starter who just happened to matriculate to the majors at the tender age of 20. I can see him having a career similar to Buehrle's; long tenures of near .500 record. In fact, ironically Porcello's 162-game average W/L record is identical (14-11) to Buehrle's … which is also identical to Bumgarner and very close to Cahill's. I think there's something clearly "accumulator" in nature to all these guys.
What has happened to some of the candidates from last year not mentioned yet?
Roy Halladay went from a near Cy Young season in 2011 to retirement in just two short seasons. Shoulder injuries are a killer. He retires with 203 wins.
Chad Billingsley lost nearly the entire 2013 season to injury, scuttling what dim chances he had. He's now not even guaranteed a spot in LA's high powered rotation.
A bunch of veterans who already had little chance (but were mentioned anyways) have now retired: Jamie Moyer, Livan Hernandez, Andy Pettitte, and Kevin Millwood.
Tim Hudson is an interesting case; he sits at 205 wins, lost a chunk of last season to injury but signed on in a pitcher's park in SF. He's gotten 17,16 and 16 wins the last three seasons in his mid 30s; can he just continue to get 16-17 win seasons and suddenly be looking at 300 wins by the time he's 42? Maybe, but he's going to have to be good these next two seasons.
Thoughts? Do you care about 300 winners like I do, or is it just an anachronism of baseball history that will go the way of 300 strikeouts, 30-wins and hitting .400?
Tagged with andy pettitte, brian terry, cc sabathia, chad billingsley, clayton kershaw, craig calcaterra, ervin santana, felix hernandez, greg maddux, jamie moyer, jay jaffe, jeff passan, jose fernandez, justin verlander, kevin millwood, livan hernandez, madison bumgarner, mark buehrle, matt cain, randy johnson, rick porcello, rob neyer, roger clemens, roy halladay, scott kazmir, shelby miller, stephen strasburg, tim hudson, tom glavine, trevor cahill, yovani gallardo, zack greinke