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Is Shakti the flip-side of a conscious wave form?
Cybernetic_Jazz
Location: On a play date with the Universe.
Post by Cybernetic_Jazz » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:12 pm
I wanted to run this past fellow psychonauts, particularly occult psychonauts, to see if this squares with anything that anyone else here is observing.
To lay the puzzle pieces out on the table:
Experience of Shakti as opposed to Darwinian evolution, our universe is lawful - even oppressively so, encounters with at least what seems to be best describes as the divine feminine, at least from my experience, are very flirtatious, erotic, playful, and even solipsistic.
The above scenario seems to be an almost perfect negative of how one would describe our world.
Spiritual guidance from that source of energy is extremely mercurial, can even push you in directions that you'd never want to go in and would never want to go in for very good reason.
Encounters with this force become explicit, I mean truly explicit, only under extreme stress or indecision where two polar opposites seem like they're stalemating over which direction you'll go.
A very different puzzle piece - modern physicists, and particularly I believe from Noether's theorem, have the sense that we should have equal left-hand and right-hand symmetries to space time and we don't, rather we have only one set.
My assessment, at least from my assemblage above - which may very well be hugely cherry-picked for my understanding (please criticize as I'd like to hear good counter arguments with the same details) is the possibility that these realities could be two opposite sides of a zero point in a wave form.
Am I claiming that this would be all there is to entity contacts? No. It's what there is to what I seem to be experiencing and I get some sense that I'm not alone, for example whoever did the video for Pearl Jam's 'Do The Evolution' video with nature red in tooth and nail juxtaposed with the dark goddess nailed the paradox I'm seeing. You don't pull that sort of thing out of thin air, it's way too oblique. My 'big theory of everything' estimate, or at least my fragment of a big theory, is that anyone who can't relate to much of anything I've said above might be tethered to a different set of dynamics and it could be that there are many different dynamic plains joining where we're at - I just happen to be the product of one rather than another hence the orientation of my comments.
What I'm thinking of with the particular plane I'm dealing with and the way I've described it - I'm considering that the mercurial pulls of the feminine that I'm getting aren't to simply be given into as 'correct', I've heard some new agers say always give in because they're right... I'd strongly disagree in my case. I'd argue that what I'm seeing is perhaps a sign that there's a bit of a zero-sum game on this plane where if one side of the plane takes more than they give irresponsibly it harms the other side of this wave form and perhaps a good portion of my life has been the other side of this waveform doing things that damage this plain in manners akin to our strip-mining, ocean trawling, etc., and in my own case some of my life difficulties might be some tragedy of the commons over there. It's a bit like both sides of this line can contribute to constructive or destructive behavior and what would really be deadly is if they go into a positive feedback loop where both sides could very easily speed up their extinction by how they handle each other.
What I'm describing also, if I want to reach out for popular occult references, reminds me both of Steiner's Luciferic forces (in his case Luciferic vs. Ahrimanic) and the other hand Max Hiendel had a different way of explaining it, ie. his 'Lucifers' being a species between angel and human who contribute to human evolution by (my words) stirring the shit pot.
Let me know if any of the above jives or if you think you've made contact with any of this. So far I don't know anyone or haven't run into anyone who can quite say the same things, and I'd really love being able to share notes with someone who has because - I'd really love to get out past metaphysical speculations on this sort of thing. Before I had just too few puzzle pieces, I feel like I have a few more, and it's really important to me to get these thoughts out, share them, and see if anything useful comes back.
TY for keeping up with me this far in LVX.
You don't have to do a thing perfect, just relentlessly.
Re: Is Shakti the flip-side of a conscious wave form?
Post by Amor » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:30 pm
>Experience of Shakti
Shakti is usually considered as a spiritual energy, commonly experienced by humans as somewhat female.
Many years ago I was surprised by the following photo
It was labelled Adi Shakti.
Adi refers to the highest of the cosmic physical planes (physical, emotional, mental, buddhic, atmic, monadic, logoic/adi). So when I saw the label I immediately measured the energy coming from the woman and it was indeed Adi. Actually she was quite sophisticated. She used the second subplane of Adi to soften the energy for humans.
Any enlightened human may, after quite a lot of purification of higher plane substance, learn to transmit Adi Shakti.
>we should have equal left-hand and right-hand symmetries to space time and we don't, rather we have only one set.
Having a symmetrical set only pushes the problem of existence one step back. How would such a symmetrical set come into existence?
It may be better to think in terms of the Hindu system: 7 planes interpenetrated by 5 electricities - making a 12 fold system. The electricities are alive, hence providing a cause for manifested existence.
>two opposite sides of a zero point in a wave form.
I have observed this in the energy body of a nature spirit: a figure 8 with one lobe light and the other dark. One lobe expands while the other contracts and then reverses. Thus the entity was breathing both light and dark energies - as do all living entities.
The proper balance between light and dark varies during the day, and depending upon duties, life cycle stage and the greater system in which the entity is embedded.
>Steiner's Luciferic forces (in his case Luciferic vs. Ahrimanic) and the other hand Max Heindel
Both excellent sources but these days we might think some of their perceptions filtered through/for forms of Christianity.
See Sitchin for a reasonably clear account of the Prince of Peace and the Prince of Darkness - although he describes them historically rather than religiously.
Ahriman however is found in the intelligence structure of the standard human. Don Juan refers to it as "a foreign installation". It may be useful to think of Ahriman as the personal will - as compared with the transpersonal will.
The personal will has proper uses - firstly in forcing the human to get its act together, and later having been transformed at the first stage of enlightenment, providing a path for creative energies.
>I'd really love to get out past metaphysical speculations
One of the critical skills is being able to control one's consciousness precisely - to subplanes and sub-subplanes. This allows pairwise comparisons and thus is the foundation of a measurement system.
Traditionally the skill is called: rising on the planes.
Public domain versions are not suited to the experimental metaphysicist.
Post by Cybernetic_Jazz » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:25 am
Amor wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:30 pm >we should have equal left-hand and right-hand symmetries to space time and we don't, rather we have only one set.
Oh, I wouldn't claim that anything I'm saying is an origin story. I'm suggesting that, at least from what I'm experiencing, it feels more like something is doing something to me that it doesn't realize it's doing.
Admittedly it's still really tough to get a full, solid read on the situation because I'm dealing with all of the following:
- A lot of energy below my solar plexus, right now from by solar plexus it's vibrating pretty good, particularly in both of those end points. Normally I'm just getting warmth radiating from the base of my spine and up my spine, the last few days it's been something extra.
- There seems to be a willful pull on my character and choices, the given problem I've been grappling with since maybe 2019 is one where I don't feel like I have an answer I can trust as to what it's origin is. Side effects of something autonomic I set off during some of the hardest times in my life? Perhaps. Spirit guides and / or HGA trying to give me a prompting toward some given path? Perhaps. What some might call 'astral wildlife' or the daemonic using me as a fishing hook to get a meal or possibly trying to line me up as their next meal? Perhaps. I can't dismiss any of them and as you can see - all of them are disturbingly contradictory in their intention and/or lack thereof.
- The start of my kundalini rumblings, that I recall, came from a moment where I had just started really looking at new age, found that to my standards it was full of fraud, saw that a lot of the new age theodicy stories of us doing this to 'have fun and learn' got really depraved when I examined their implications, and at that moment of frustration I took it that I had a higher self and that I was willing to face off against it if I believed that it had glib or even capricious intentions. The wobble and warmth I felt in my spine was almost immediate.
Amor wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:30 pm It may be better to think in terms of the Hindu system: 7 planes interpenetrated by 5 electricities - making a 12 fold system. The electricities are alive, hence providing a cause for manifested existence.
It could be, just that this being far beyond my own range of experience I can neither confirm or deny that suggestion.
Amor wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:30 pm >Steiner's Luciferic forces (in his case Luciferic vs. Ahrimanic) and the other hand Max Heindel
The way I understood Steiner's use of the Luciferic vs. Ahrimanic seemed very kabbalistic in that either or would denote excesses of either the pillar of severity or the pillar of mercy, the pillar of severity excesses would be outright brutality and soul-stealing dryness which would be associated with the Ahrimanic where as the Luciferic, excess in the direction of the pillar of mercy, would be the fluff bunnies and the Coachman and Lampwick taking one to Pleasure island where they could start braying like asses.
Amor wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:30 pm >I'd really love to get out past metaphysical speculations
I think what at least stopped me with Raja and Gnana Yoga techniques, aside from working a heck of a lot, was doing the One Year Manual and not feeling like it did anything. I also read, against the author's directions admittedly (ie. that you're supposed to work through rather than read), Mouni Sadhu's Concentration and I see that later in his life he himself was disenchanted with the results and actually came to a particular philosopher, I believe it might have been Sri Maharshi, who was advocating something that seemed similar to Thales 'Know thyself and you will know the Universe and the Gods'. Self-examination is something I can do, in fact it's something I love to do. IMHO all of reality should either reconcile against itself and where it can't reconcile there should be at least be a certain pattern to that lack of reconciliation which would show deeper non-connected projections of something larger which would create coherent clusters.
That could just as easily be a neurological type issue where different people have different ways in - I simply don't know.
That's sort of where I'm at right now - ie. trying my level best to tighten down my discernment, for what I'd think of as imminently practical reasons like a) not f'ing up at life, b) doing what little I can to help other people not f' up at life and c) not get raped over a barrel by the powers that be for marching to beat of my own drum or doing my best to live in my own integrity. It seems like this plane is actually quite hostile to integrity, life feels like it's a tower defense game where most living organisms are trying to sell you BS and for good reason - in Darwinian evolution and game theory we're dealing with fitness payouts, one-down one-up games, and so grifting is as good a strategy for winning those games as any. That's also part of where I realize I shouldn't simply trust something because it feels good or feels love and light, mainly because I really can't understand what a metaphysical evil is but I can understand what something trying to get a meal is or a parasite finding a food source, and I can think of some very quick go-to scenarios, like toxoplasmosis, where parasites can not only effect animal behavior but they can effect human behavior as well (someone mentioned that a lot of the guys who wipe out on sport bikes while maxing out their governance at 187 mph, I have friends like this, actually have toxoplasmosis just that there's no predator of humans whose urine we can be aroused by - unless it's gamer girls selling it for $10K a cup).
Post by Amor » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:35 am
> it feels more like something is doing something to me that it doesn't realize it's doing.
Long ago I recall a friend telling me that he was having a shower when a very strong energy came on him. He thought it was going to kill him. So he shouted out: knock it off, guys. And they did.
I suspect that the intelligences involved did not know what energies could be handled by a human.
>A lot of energy below my solar plexus
This is personality type energy, both emotional and etheric
>a willful pull on my character
There are various intelligences attached to the human that are threatened by the human making contact with spiritual forces. These intelligences have many layers of defence and distraction - including faking spiritual experiences.
>Spirit guides and / or HGA trying to give me a prompting
Spirit guides are generally of a different character to the HGA. The HGA communicates most easily through higher mental and heart levels. I have never seen a HGA use the solar plexus (astral).
>using me as a fishing hook
Most humans are loaded up with hooks from other humans and lower grade spirits. Hooks disturb flows of light and eventually cause illness at the hooking place. A simple way to find them is to follow the flow of Light from the heart and look for when it suddenly gets darker. The transition will commonly mark a hook or other interference.
>Luciferic vs. Ahrimanic seemed very kabbalistic
Or not. Generally the kabbalistic material is embedded in the aura of a large entity. Personally I would not wish to exist within the aura of that entity. Its time is largely gone.
>reality should either reconcile against itself and where it can't reconcile there should be at least be a certain pattern to that lack of reconciliation which would show deeper non-connected projections of something larger which would create coherent clusters.
In my experience Reality is manifested Existence, but on occasion (pralaya) there is no manifested Existence but the unmanifest Beingness continues.
>life feels like it's a tower defense game where most living organisms are trying to sell you BS
On the other hand there are many that experience synchronicity. For example, long ago I lived in a spiritual community that had an weekly sharing - sort of show and tell. It was pretty awful so a group of us new members proposed to take it over.
I organized one night and decided to put personality events on first and then use a piece of music to clear the atmosphere before the transpersonal events. I chose a piece of solo violin music but did not tell anyone. That day at lunch a guest came up to me and wanted to play that piece. All went ahead just fine and the founder of the community told me it was the best sharing ever.
Later I discovered that the piece of music I had chosen was widely regarded as the most difficult in the Western repetoire. So how, when I had not told anyone what I wanted, had someone volunteered to play that very piece.
To be fair, when organizing that sharing I had a sensation like a strong wind in which if I held out my arms I would be blown along.
In some parts of the world synchronicities are positive and in other places negative. Be careful where you live and be careful of the humans with whom you engage.
>You don't have to do a thing perfect, just relentlessly.
Sometimes it is better to go with the flow.
Here is an important technique for increasing the flow.
https://www.occultforum.org/viewtopic.p ... 33#p526433
Post by Cybernetic_Jazz » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:43 am
Amor wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:35 am >A lot of energy below my solar plexus
TY for that info.
One of the stranger things I can even say about my heart chakra lighting up, it seems to happen either when I'm meeting people who'll be good for me in some particular way or people who are object lessons of why I don't want to be somewhere, and in the past few days I have had my heart light up but wow... I hate to say it but for as much as I've tried to read the implications of whatever it was that I was thinking when I did so, it hasn't been congruent. I'm starting to think I might have to actually start journaling these events and where the specific energy hit, when, what I was thinking and hope I can get enough out of it to connect the dots. Historically I haven't needed to do that but the timing and circumstances is really oblique.
On a side note with certain parts of the personality trying to prevent awakening, I can think of that interpret that perhaps in two ways (let me know if I'm missing anything). One would be that those layers have experiences they want to fulfill yet, the other would be the sense that awakening - like anything that can make you seem the slightest bit 'different' - can make you light up as prey to human predators, bullies, and all sorts of other people who'd look to make a target of you. In the later sense it's somewhat of an 'I live on earth and I have to be able to at least keep one foot here - otherwise I'm staring at the sky in wonder while I get mugged', the other part of it would be just that layer looking after itself.
Some of that flows into what I've really come to accept as the best granular model that I've heard so far, ie. Donald Hoffman and Chetan Prakash on the idea of the whole of reality being a social network of conscious agents, that we probably are made of as many one-bit agents as there are subatomic particles in us, and so it perhaps shouldn't be any surprise that there's heterogeneity, particularly considering that we come into life with a body given to us by a mother, father, and a whole ancestral stack of genetic and epigenetic information, particularly the later about their life experiences as well as met and unmet needs.
Also the reason I brought up HGA, the entity whose bringing me to the challenges I'm facing...erm... I don't know how to refuse that entity for very long, not because it's just that guileful but because it feels like it's the core of my own battery pack. That's where a lot of this gets complex and where I worry that I could also be significantly misinterpreting early murmurs of KnC. I don't know how much this suggestion will map on to anything your familiar with, so far most of the people I've run into who talk about KnC talk about their HGA as being of the opposite gender and quite often opposite personality, almost as if its something similar to anima or animus but bumped a few levels up.
That's where I might need to just say as observant as I can for the next few months, try not to make any more assumptions than I absolutely need to, and hope for the best.
>my heart chakra lighting up
Do you feel that physically in the center of the chest?
> journaling
Generally a good idea when starting to make soul contact as the mind wanders in and mainly out of the areas that the HGA can access easily.
> those layers have experiences they want to fulfill yet
The lower layers are often driven by elemental forces and when that happens they will never be fulfilled.
On a more profound level, humans that have not finished with the lessons of Pisces will normally be held by that energy being until they have.
>awakening ...can make you light up as prey
I am not sure awakening is a particularly good metaphor as it underplays the extensive work required, before and after.
Those beings posted into the human race from outside are particularly subject to predators over many lives. This is orchestrated to prevent the new human from carrying out allocated work.
I recall a woman. After knowing her for more than a decade I saw a concealed hook in her solar plexus. I could see the group of Lemurian dark magicians that were working to keep her disabled spiritually. I pointed out the group and she could see her best friend from university and also her first husband. I could also see her second husband but she did not mention him. A few weeks later she largely ceased contact, much later telling someone that it had become too traumatic.
Still, she may have chosen well as her current husband after decades on useless spiritual path is now showing signs of transcendental experience.
>whole of reality being a social network of conscious agents
This could be seen as a rather simple view. For example awareness has much greater scope than consciousness. Further, there are few humans that can claim a perception of the whole of reality. Then too, reality is the outer manifestation of beingness
>come into life with a body given to us by a mother, father, and a whole ancestral stack of genetic and epigenetic information
Those of us that reincarnate do not like to start from square one each time. Therefore we carry over patterns for bodies (physical, emotional, mental) of the same refinement as we had last time. Theosophists refer to the mechanism as seed atoms.
> HGA, the entity whose bringing me to the challenges
Perhaps, as seconded human, you also have a sponsor standing in the solar system, some Earth teachers from past lives, and some expectant entities awaiting your coherent attention.
>HGA... feels like it's the core of my own battery pack.
This is not strictly true. As you may have sensed if you tried the exercise I suggested in my previous post, the flow of Spirit (in some cases from outside the planet) anchors as a "flame" in the heart. That flow of Spirit manifests in the human as life force.
Humans that do not have a strong flow of Spirit run on their batteries and get run down. (There are additional flows that may be relevant, e.g. group gestalt)
The major connection of the HGA (solar/soul angel) is an anchoring of Spirit in the brain. That anchor is used to generate consciousness. Where the brain is contaminated (aluminum, lead etc) or damaged, the solar angel often finds the brain unsuitable for its use.
In severe cases the flow to the brain is displaced to the back of the heart and the human is barely functional e.g. severe autism.
The solar angel remains only as long as it is necessary to transform Spirit to the lower frequencies usable by the under-developed human. As the human reaches the second and then third level of enlightenment (control of the heart and spiritual will) the solar angel is no longer needed and the soul body (on the higher mental subplanes) disperses.
Then the human can say: When you have seen me you have seen the Father, for He lives in me and I in Him.
>significantly misinterpreting early murmurs of KnC
Keeping a diary is useful and perhaps embarrassing if shared with others.
> talk about their HGA as being of the opposite gender and quite often opposite personality
The HGA has little to do with the personality. It is up to the human to cleanse the personality so that it is transparent to Spirit.
I recall a woman who said she was Jesus come again. When I looked at her I could see the Christ energy hitting the edge of her aura and, as an interference pattern with her mental energies, generating a nice Jesus image. So I stopped that happening and she sat down for three days until she had rebuilt the image. Then she was up and about being Jesus.
> try not to make any more assumptions than I absolutely need to
For most humans the exercise I gave is sufficient for a long time. Eventually higher forces intervene to provide additional layers of technique.
Post by Cybernetic_Jazz » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:47 am
Amor wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:26 am >awakening ...can make you light up as prey
I really think this is my first time here. I was an incredibly sweet kid, the type of kid who had a way of walking into all sorts of things with sincerity and perhaps a bit often stating the obvious in places where people might not have needed it. Even having 'guiled up' a bit in my late teens and early 20's my intentions, even up through my early and mid 30's were reliably pretty pure and I noticed that generally yielded more punishment than good things (at best perhaps safety and autonomy). I was dx'd on the spectrum when I was 11, that was 1991, almost 30 years later I'm still unpacking what all of that means. My sense was that I was able to get a really fast running head-start into the intellectual aspects of esotericism but I realized quickly that this didn't have any particularly strong correlation with what you can do other than be glowingly armchair, and I'm hoping both to shift my frame of reference in what I wanted toward what my life path seems to be (I've been shifting from very RHP'ish AMORC, BOTA, etc., over towards TOAF and perhaps most recently taking an interest in exploring the Qliphoth for what I consider to be it's 'physics of reality' or the foundational forces of this plane that I see that representing).
Amor wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:26 am >whole of reality being a social network of conscious agents
I tend to like granular / reductionist models when I can find them because it gives me something foundational to work my way up from or nuance with emerging details. My long-study of consciousness has really pointed me toward funtionalism with multiple realizability, particularly such as upward and downward causation in the body or the ways in which it seems like tiny nanobot-like organelle in cells can behave as if by remote control from a higher layer. From that I see reality as something like a 'stack' of supervening layers, including egregores and other beings although I'm sure many of these aren't mass-mind oriented. This is where I chuckle at the 'China Brain' criticism of functionalism with multiple realizability - that's a strength in my mind, not a weakness.
What Hoffman and Prakash did, I think brilliantly, is map a mechanics of functionalism with multiple realizability by way of contract between conscious agents creating or abducting new conscious agents as the links between, each higher level contract experiencing itself as 'something that it's like to be' but a higher order aggregate.
I'm sure for all the empirical contact you have with the data you'd probably have plenty of criticisms and caveats to the above, it's just what I've been able to cobble together so far.
Amor wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:26 am >HGA... feels like it's the core of my own battery pack.
I did start into it today, I'd rather give it a few weeks before I say too much but I will say I had at least a good year to fifteen months just running the basic LAM-VAM-RAM-YAM-HAM-OM chakra meditation (did a higher count at the bottom and narrowed as I went up - for stability), been several months off of that now so it's probably a good time to pick up something new and try it out.
Amor wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:26 am > talk about their HGA as being of the opposite gender and quite often opposite personality
People are experiencing something like this though, and quite often with Book of Abermelain or there A.'.A.'. equivalent grade work toward dominus liminis / portal. I am curious as to what this is and why it would turn out that way for them, and similarly most of my own encounters tend to be feminine in nature with core attributes that tend to remind me of elements of my own shadow / anima.
I actually sometimes wonder if the diversity of people's experiences is a sign of the complexity of what we're in. That there seem to be clusters of different experience, form of contact, and another odd but interesting one are all the people who run into machine elves rather easily. Although this example I'm about to give probably isn't it I could picture us all climbing about different folds of something like the E8 Lie Group, ending up on the same planet, and trying to describe something way more complicated and strange than different parts of an elephant.
Post by Amor » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:44 am
>towards TOAF and perhaps most recently taking an interest in exploring the Qliphoth
It hardly needs saying that these energy systems are alive and intelligent. There are very few humans that can swim in these currents and keep their heads in the clear air. An obvious precondition is being able to control one's own thoughts.
Those that cannot control their thoughts are easy prey.
> upward and downward causation in the body
The physical plane/body is an effect and not a cause.
"RULE VIII
The Agnisuryans respond to the sound. The waters ebb and flow. Let the magician guard himself from drowning at the point where land and water meet. The midway spot which is neither dry nor wet must provide the standing place whereon his feet are set. When water, land and air meet there is the place for magic to be wrought."
http://www.light-weaver.com/LW-old/fire/fire1384.html
This refers to the highest mental subplane - difficult to access until after the first stage of enlightenment.
>reality as something like a 'stack' of supervening layers, including egregores and other beings
Fair enough, but where is the intelligence that operates our local reality? What are its agenda?
>I am curious as to what this is and why it would turn out that way for them,
I did give an example of that. Incoming energy streams (whether light or dark) interface with the human mental structure. Thus frequencies/qualities/intents that are not compatible with the mental structure are not anchored. Those that are partially compatible produce limited/distorted images in the human's mental system.
In short: humans see what they want to see.
>E8 Lie Group,
As I indicated. The physical plane (including quantum mechanics) is an effect and not a cause. Better to consider the intelligence that manifests the aether.
That way we can avoid the question : if reality does not manifest until an observer observes, why is this property restricted to humans?
Cannot dogs be observers? If not, we are in a religious framework where humans are the high point of Existence/Creation. I have found no evidence for the supremacy of humans in my travels.
Post by Cybernetic_Jazz » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:11 pm
Amor wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:44 am It hardly needs saying that these energy systems are alive and intelligent. There are very few humans that can swim in these currents and keep their heads in the clear air. An obvious precondition is being able to control one's own thoughts.
Yeah, and I'd say I'm not doing for fun - rather I have a sense from reading the flow of my life that it's work I have to do. I survived, when I was younger, what I'd have to call MasterClass gas-lighting from what some of the best human apes, narcissists, and psychopaths had to offer (think whole work places or portions of high schools organized against people who are politically inconvenient) - I did manage to get through it mainly by building so much self-reference that while they could send the BS pretty fast they couldn't do it fast enough to drive me crazy. Is that enough to prepare me for the above? I have to hope but I don't know for sure.
Amor wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:44 am >reality as something like a 'stack' of supervening layers, including egregores and other beings
That's just it - it's what I have. There are a couple logistical challenges we have in this conversation and primarily I'd describe it as the person whose trying to describe what they're getting flickers of (enough to know that reductive materialism is BS) but it's like the limit of feeling rain drops, snow flakes, or breeze on my skin but having no sight or hearing, a bit like I've graduated from being a rock with no perception to being more akin to Hellen Keller pre-sign language. I then use the sight and hearing I do have in the physical plane, read many different accounts from people about the cosmology, whose in charge, and where I'm forced to give up - they all differ, and I don't know what to do with that aside from listen cautiously but open-mindedly. I get that my side of the conversation can sound atheist or 'if I haven't experienced it yet it's not true' - which unfortunately a lot of people do, and I get that trying to talk to someone in my position would be difficult in that I'd underplay huge concepts or you could give me what you know to be a gem and I treat it like its anywhere else for the lack of a solid point of reference for being able to connect it to the rest of the structures I have to be able to make contact with its value.
The 'who or what's in charge' question is an interesting one and TBH I don't know. I do remember Mark Stavish posting a few thoughts, one from Jean Dubuis who was a bit of a mentor for him as far as I know, and then discussions of a guy named 'John' who lived in one of the desert western states and was in one of the inbetween states of development where, a bit like Vivikenanda, he was getting ready to leave human existence. They both said something about the force who 'runs things' being rather humorless, almost cold in its rationality. That's a story coming from at least two people (Mark and Jean) whose opinions I'd put high value on but at the same time the thing that makes me squirm with this story - sounds very Saturnian, and it sounds like it maps on beautifully to a Ptolemaic model of the universe where Saturn is the container of anything we can track with Jupiter, Mars, Sol, etc. below it. In a funny way the Ptolemaic model of the universe, measuring the first five other planets of the solar system as well as the sun and moon by the length of their cycle, may have hit some deeper truth almost by accident and with that accident Uranus and Neptune, one's Trans-Neptunian objects, the moons of the other planets, etc., might have less to do with it, but you can see where all of this can get really confusing for a person to track who doesn't have this sort of thing as a daily experience and really only has their reasoning faculties to try and sort out which people with second-sight are clearing / filtering their visions accurately, whose just getting unfiltered mass-mind, whose getting a bit of both and can't distinguish, or what distortions that a particular seer's system of development they followed might be distorting these things through a doctrinal lens (I can't help but think of Dion Fortune's Cosmic Doctrine here - really fascinating book, it also turns the whole universe into themes of the Hebrew alphabet and again - this coming from a historical magician and author who very few people would say stuttered).
What I would love to ask you though on the 'whose in charge question' - does humanity have hope for the future?
This is a terrifying century to be in. I think of the E.O. Wilson quote - paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions, godlike technology, I think of so many of Daniel Schmachtenberger's discussions on multipolar traps, the problems he and Jordan Hall/Greenhall bring up on the dilemmas we face based on 'Game A' (agricultural revolution forward) being a delegation scheme for zero-sum games, and then add that catastrophic species-ending, possibly Earth life-ending, capacities will be in more in more people's hands as technology increases and that power democratizes which means, when those capacities meet stochastic processes, a world of human beings who are largely in rivalry with each other for status, mating opportunities, and where arms races dominate the decision processes of those who lead in this world because power is the capacity not to be dominated by your competitor who has a little more power (whether another group or another country one's competing against economically, socially, informationally, militarily, etc.).
All of that has me somewhat afraid both that there's a real likelihood that we don't make it to the 22nd century, what's scarier to me than that even is the possibility that we - as eternally conscious being - might be living in a system of living mathematics that's exploring all of the patterns of something like what's come to be called Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. It would mean that not every world that's created is meant to evolve into some timeless future. It would mean that as many species would survive and succeed or not survive, as many worlds would end in triumph or comedy rather than tragedy, and said outcomes would be based on those worlds being something like living sketches of mathematical realities where their past, present, and future is set and stone (yes - I'm showing my hard determinism here) to, like the Mandelbrot set, either converge to zero or infinitely diverge. No matter how beautiful that larger structure is it's also terrifyingly nihilistic and especially if someone's going through absolutely terrible times in their lives it's the kind of vision that would make them stick their head in the toilet and heave their guts out for a while when the implications hit (not only they going through hell but - it's like the table robot on Rick and Morty whose sole purpose for existence is to 'get butter').
Amor wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:44 am >E8 Lie Group,
What I think would be super useful, whether or not you're up for it is another matter, is hearing something about the forces that are 'just behind' physics, ie. that generate the spinors, fibre bundles, lie groups, and other things that guys like Sir Roger Penrose and Eric Weinstein love sharing their excitement about.
One of my biggest challenges in dealing with these realms has been trying to shake off the reductive materialist indoctrination that it's 'all in your head' in the neurological sense. It was fascinating to see just what kinds of profound experiences of contact with non-human consciousness I could have, things I couldn't for a moment write off as 'psychological' (whether a sparkling light being beaming love at me and being able to sense everything about their shape or intent but not see them at all, or sensing a similar Mary-like figure approach, just about every cell or neuron in my body animalistically elated like it had seen it's mother that it had been separated from since birth - these are things I'd have no clue how to cognitively hyperventilate my way into experiencing, let alone orthogonally without having intended it). Israel Regardie said similar things on how interesting a problem it was that you could have those experiences, get sucked back into a brutally lawful world (my words), and what seemed obviously non-physical to you at the moment starts to fade in memory and you eventually get to the point of asking again... is there any 100% certain way of proving to myself that it wasn't just in my head?
That's a very difficult hurdle to clear, I feel like I've gotten around it more because I've had the luck of enough experiences that just break the model regardless of how thick a crowd of experiences that conform to reductive materialism that they might be sitting in with.
Getting a clear picture of what's just behind the spinors, fibre bundles, etc. might give me a lot of supporting 'context' for all of this where some of that crowding out has less of a negative impact. Or, if you know that what's there is just another layer that wouldn't seem to make sense feel free to say so as well, I'm just trying to figure out how to broaden my map.
Amor wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:44 am That way we can avoid the question : if reality does not manifest until an observer observes, why is this property restricted to humans?
So the kind of thinking you're talking about is the sort that I associate with people like Richard Dawkins or Massimo Piggliuci. They can think at doctorate level on some things and then have these notches where they dip down to kindergarden or primary school levels of sophistication, particularly on topics like we've been discussing.
I see so much of strident atheism and materialism as politics - just that. You see people just about foam at the mouth over Trump or Biden, or the latest dumb thing that AOC did or Tucker Carlson said, whoever the train wreck, politics is a domain that people don't seem to care at all about truth - they care about tribe and team. The only other topic that behaves quite like politics is either fundamentalist religion, escapist new age, or militant irrreligion.
I only take these views and at least this vector of these people's thinking seriously to the degree that their game theory is very well weaponized and it's the sort of thing where someone can say 'Oh yeah? You have facts and arguments? I can clinch your head, jam it into my knee, and we'll see how strong your arguments are when your jaw is in pieces'. That goes back to something I've seen time-in and time-out in my life, that violence beats the heck out of truth, at least in the short term, any day of the week and it's part of how it seems like we always end up with our lives being ruled by tyrannical children. It happens reliably because when it comes to politics 'my fist can make a pathetic joke of your nuance'.
I'll accept that most people seem to be on this planet to do the closest thing to mortal combat that the law of any given country will allow for the sake of getting their own genes into the next generation. From their POV it's also probably not good enough that their own children succeed, much better if their own children succeed and other people's children explicitly fail.
I suppose that circles right back to my concerns about this planet and its future. It's not just about bad actors, it's sure as heck not about people simply being 'ignorant' and not knowing better. It seems more like the very processes that pulled human beings out of apes and apes out of their ancestors, ie. the violence of Darwinian evolution and the way that whatever wins 'wins' regardless of whether it's an improvement or a deprecation, really forces humans to be something I'd have to call a daemon species in its priorities (eg. same core priority as spruce and squid - make successful copies of itself).
That's where I feel like people like us, who care at all about these things, not only are permanent outsiders who are completely outside the priorities of the human species, it's a bit like any notion that we'd be here to 'teach' assumes that there's something there to be educated. To so many humans any interest in anything that's not related to social climbing and getting your genes into the next generation or helping to stack the deck so your progeny wins and other progenies fail, isn't just 'weird' - it's a mode of failure or a sign that a person is a genetic copying error who has bad code and is to be ignored at all costs.
They're not just 'not playing our game well' and in need of instruction, they're not playing our game at all as far as I can tell.
Sorry for the long rant on that but - it's a topic that pushes a lot of buttons with me.
Post by Amor » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:57 pm
>force who 'runs things' being rather humorless
Others of course experience the opposite. The term "cosmic joke" is well known.
>think of Dion Fortune's Cosmic Doctrine
The other book of note written in the same years is "A Treatise on Cosmic Fire", according to the author, written for third degree initiates (first stage enlightenment) at the end of the 20th century.
I found it interesting that two profound books were written in the same years - with both authors claiming to be guided by a Master.
I met DF in a "dream". She is very impressive.
>on the 'whose in charge question' - does humanity have hope for the future
There are several dimensions for this:
- Is the Earth human race cosmically functional - designed for a cosmic purpose?
- Is the Earth human race operating in a linear time context as compared with parallel processing?
- What is the cosmic karma being out-worked in this solar system?
It is not possible to answer such questions based upon the perspective of the standard human living upon the surface of this planet.
Still humans get some useful thoughts from some friendly aliens and trans-humans including:
- There are galactic community rules about what happens on and near this planet. Apparently this solar system is under quarantine at present, with various carpet baggers unable to leave.
- Time path damage is actively being repaired as this 3D planet is sitting on a critical flow junction for many worlds
- The human does not need technology as the human is able to generate all that it needs using consciousness. (Hence the importance of controlling the knowledge available to Earth humans)
- The spirit standing behind a standard human may generate up to 12 souls and each soul may generate up to 12 personalities. This parallel processing with data exchange reduces the time it takes for the spirit to produce a transparent (enlightened) personality.
>living in a system of living mathematics that's exploring all of the patterns of something like what's come to be called Godel's Incompleteness Theorem.
The intelligence that uses this universe as a body of manifestation has strong purpose. Locally that purpose includes taking a firmer grip on dense matter, hence the mostly inappropriate enthusiasm of humans that practice dark magic. There are beings that properly deal with that firmer grip but none that I have seen is a genuine human.
The incompleteness theorem merely demonstrates that the physical world is an effect and not a cause.
> forces that are 'just behind' physics, ie. that generate the spinors, fibre bundles, lie groups
The Michelson-Morley experiment of 1887 assumed a non-entrained aether. And their experiment did not find it because it is not non-entrained but rather entrained by the planet.
Theosophical clairvoyants, in the 1890s, said that atoms (then believed to be like billiard balls) were actually whirlpools in the aether. Thus entanglement was solved before it was discovered.
As we know there is a song of creation. The song produces harmonics in the aether. As humans learn cosmic song, they too can produce harmonics in the aether - thus the importance of controlling what humans know.
>sparkling light being beaming love at me and being able to sense everything about their shape or intent but not see them at all
Just as shown in the old Superman comics, there is a beam of energy from the human eye. Look at a carpet then at a smooth flat surface. Notice how the eye feels a different sensation.
The eye beams work with eyes closed, backwards, through dense matter, through time, and into the worlds that interpenetrate this 3D world.
>concerns about this planet and its future
It seems that humans that have graduated from this place have been reborn in other systems, and only the laggards are here, with some helpers sent in. (According to Hindu tradition there were 64 billion human souls)
Although there has been at least one planet destroyed in this solar system (asteroid belt) and at least one planet devastated by humans (Mars), with Earth's moon being a very recent arrival (about 10 000 years), I have no fears for this planet.
https://www.historydisclosure.com/there ... not-exist/
Beings posted into this planet as humans to assist are usually subject to quite a lot of adverse influence, orchestrated over many lives. The key is to move the human substance to frequencies (planes/subplanes) that do not resonate with the adverse energies.
The Flame in the Heart is the core exercise. Those that practice spiritual science later find much value in rising on the planes as this forms the basis of precise energy work. Some posted beings operate primarily through relationship, using elementals, nature spirits and devas to do much of the technical work.
Post by Kath » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:12 pm
To think that shakti and the harsh reality of the material universe around us, are entirely "divergent" in nature, may be to some extent applying an undue level of romanticism to the one, and an undue level of pessimism to the other. That's not a concrete assertion, just the first thought that popped into my head.
A lot of people are super into the idea of being at one with the universe, and yet, they find much of the universe terrifying or alien. To me, this implies a kind of romanticism without realism. Or wanting to only eat the icing off the cake.
Put another way, to say that Shakti does not have this harsh side quality as well, is to say Shakti is Sati or Pavarti, but is not Durga or Kali. And lets be fair, the darwinian harsh material reality is not trying to cull you from the gene pool ALL of the time. There are roses to smell.
Cybernetic_Jazz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:25 am ...I'm suggesting that, at least from what I'm experiencing, it feels more like something is doing something to me that it doesn't realize it's doing.
ah, yeah
anything "really big" has a sort of uh... 'effect' on smaller things. For example if there's a sort of radiant transcendence just oozing off of a being with tremendous "scale" lets call it... then that can kinda blindside smaller beings, and have a profound effect on them. I have seen this effect cause spontaneous abject adoration. It's kinda the effect you'd be going for if you were deliberately glamoring. But for really big beings, it's just part of their existence, like a gravitational field.
It can have effects other than adoration, fear, sexual excitement, wonder, etc. all depends on context & subtle differences in tone.
According to the largest being I know, one of the 2 main reasons she decided to become as close with me as she did, is because I was in a place where I would not be swayed. In fact I was actually flippant with her initially. I had just quit a religion, and was not in the mood for deities. She wasn't really interested in getting intimately involved with someone if she couldn't "let her hair down" with them, without bruising their consciousness.
knowing of self, and empty of dogmatic preconception.
Anyways, yeah, with large fish, there's a slipstream of current around them which can toss you around if you aren't kinda anchored.
If you invoke the essence of something like that in yourself, you can yourself end up generating a somewhat weaker version of the same effect in those around you. Even without invoking, if you just... be "a large sort of self", you can effect the impressionable in unintended ways. Or if you're trying for the effect, to play with glamour, you can have "too much" effect by accident, depending on how well anchored others are in their self awareness.
None of which is meant to imply a lack of self awareness on your part. I think being influenced by things much larger than oneself is pretty natural. I was approached when my resistance to such was at an all time apex (up till that point in my life). And I could definitely feel the influence and pull, I just didn't allow it to internalize, and kept the sensation superficial. I don't think it would have gone like that at any earlier point in my life, and I only arrived at that point through a wide range of circumstances, some of which I wouldn't wish on anyone.
Post by Cybernetic_Jazz » Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:46 am
Kath wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:12 pm To think that shakti and the harsh reality of the material universe around us, are entirely "divergent" in nature, may be to some extent applying an undue level of romanticism to the one, and an undue level of pessimism to the other. That's not a concrete assertion, just the first thought that popped into my head.
In my case I don't think it's romanticism, it's much more an issue that anything leading from Shakti into its more destructive features and forming a more comprehensive system just isn't something I've directly experienced. I'm in a place where I don't mind experimenting with ideas to see what occult concept slots certain experiences fit into but I generally don't do it the other way around of having things other people have said then influence my expectations. I've found through the years that most of my mystical experiences were things that didn't have really direct correlates in other people's stories, I do love the few times where I had a subconscious opening and a particular experience and then found out about or discovered something later about that symbol set - it's a lot closer to knock-on solid because I had no reason to believe that I was making anything up to fit a narrative that doesn't match observation but 'should' be there based on doctrines I've been taught.
I'm sure that could sound sophomoric or like a bit of Dunning Kruger in it seeming like I'm claiming to be more steady than the experts - then again this is me managing my own mind and body and I have to be really careful in that sense, if I have no proof that something works or even it it's true but I can't make contact with it, whether it's just outside my current place or whether it's actually vaporware matters less in the practical sense than that it's trying to use something that can't be used yet or trying to sell myself a concept that I haven't seen any evidence for. I was willing to do that in BOTA with kabbalah and tarot on the authority of people like Manly P Hall and Eliphas Levi because I liked the idea that there was something very reduced or simplified in the kabbalah where you could examine different zones of manifestation and use that structure a bit like a pharmacy and balance / counterbalance things where you found imbalance, or with Eliphas Levi's claims about the tarot I got a fascinating idea that the 22 majors were like a set of lock picks for your psyche and I've come to see it more like a means of open-sourcing your brain's software, like switching from Microsoft or IOS to Linux at a user level.
Cybernetic_Jazz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:25 am None of which is meant to imply a lack of self awareness on your part. I think being influenced by things much larger than oneself is pretty natural. I was approached when my resistance to such was at an all time apex (up till that point in my life). And I could definitely feel the influence and pull, I just didn't allow it to internalize, and kept the sensation superficial. I don't think it would have gone like that at any earlier point in my life, and I only arrived at that point through a wide range of circumstances, some of which I wouldn't wish on anyone.
There's another factor that I'd have to bring up, again from the place of development I'm at where almost all of my contact with this stuff is tactile with maybe some small amount of minds-eye visual but no clear discussion with anything at length or no at-length inner-eye contact with things, it's a world where most of these phenomena are black-boxed for me. I can feel them making contact with me immediately but I can't see their origin most of the time and so when they do come they can blind side me, and then when that does happen I have to spend my time then for a minute trying to contextualize what's happening or find what seems to be the most accurate basket to put that experience, phenomena, or contact in based on what clues it might yield.
I haven't felt like things have overpowered or overtaken me too often but under times of deep stress, lack of sleep, etc. where I was already having trouble making ends meet hedonically (think extreme work schedules with equally inordinate consequences for less than perfect performance for example) I could find myself hit with glamours or being overshadowed, often along the lines of sexual energy. I think for a while what I grappled with was the question of whether that was really just my own subconscious trying to keep balance during those times by exerting an equal and opposite force to the stressor - which is still a reductive materialism-friendly story, one that can keep a person grounded of course when or if they feel like life is stretching their sanity into the red but it's also the kind of thing which can have errors in the direction of writing off various kinds of contact as psychological or simply your nervous system doing something that it has to do - which puts one back in that place of confusion where they're stuck constantly reevaluating their esoteric / mystical experiences to see if there's any proof that said things are actually real. I'm at the point where I'd say yes - many of them quite likely have been real in a way that's autonomous to my nervous system or needs to have... what I might be able to call sort of like an internal female doppleganger (perhaps I in part retrofitted this image from the subconscious in Rider Wait and Paul Foster Case's BOTA tarot) who plays the equal and opposite to keep equal pressure on the center point between us, and I'm in the process of trying to figure out a few things on that 1) what's a sign that something is autonomously external but hitting me from non-sensory levels, 2) what sharp peaks are simply a sort of physics reaction to internal imbalances of the moment where their presence is a call for counter-balance and 3) what does it even mean for something to be 'in my head', particularly if (going on Hoffman and Prakash as I would) there isn't a physical reality out there in the usual sense and since I've also had so many times where I've made contact with entities who were both internal to me and autonomous from my cognitive function - finding my own 'edges' on the subjective plane can be challenging and that's assuming such edges even exist.
Post by Kath » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:19 pm
Cybernetic_Jazz wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:46 am I've found through the years that most of my mystical experiences were things that didn't have really direct correlates in other people's stories,
Cybernetic_Jazz wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:46 am I do love the few times where I had a subconscious opening and a particular experience and then found out about or discovered something later about that symbol set - it's a lot closer to knock-on solid because I had no reason to believe that I was making anything up to fit a narrative that doesn't match observation but 'should' be there based on doctrines I've been taught.
Yeah, kinda the same thinking that goes into having a double-blind experiment in science, so as to remove a lot of subjectivity.
Definitely an analytical instinct I can appreciate.
Cybernetic_Jazz wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:46 am I'm sure that could sound sophomoric or like a bit of Dunning Kruger in it seeming like I'm claiming to be more steady than the experts..
I think exactly the opposite. I think self proclaimed experts sound the most sophomoric
Granted they may have experience which leads them to think that way. But I take note that when I'm talking to someone who claims to have all the answers, I'm talking to someone who has long since stopped learning and growing. And 'usually' not because they actually have all of the answers.
Cybernetic_Jazz wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:46 am then again this is me managing my own mind and body and I have to be really careful in that sense, if I have no proof that something works or even it it's true but I can't make contact with it, whether it's just outside my current place or whether it's actually vaporware matters less in the practical sense than that it's trying to use something that can't be used yet or trying to sell myself a concept that I haven't seen any evidence for.
I definitely resonate with that. Blind faith is not, in my view, a virtue.
It's virtue-ified in organized religions which rely on belief to self-sustain the group and it's dogma, but I don't think it's an actual virtue at all.
In cinema, they say "show, don't tell" (in the sense that one should use the visual medium to tell the story instead of narrating). I found that with my mentor a great deal was conveyed experientially or through object lessons. Touching, knowing, and viscerally understanding the subject matter, rather than learning by wrote.
Cybernetic_Jazz wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:46 am or with Eliphas Levi's claims about the tarot I got a fascinating idea that the 22 majors were like a set of lock picks for your psyche and I've come to see it more like a means of open-sourcing your brain's software, like switching from Microsoft or IOS to Linux at a user level.
That is an interesting take on it. I'd be curious on more detail about the idea.
Myself I've found that it could be a useful metaphor to say that in my spiritual path I've done some source code re-writing in myself. Some parts of the self, natural and valid parts of self, simply blocked progression, and had to be tamed or excised. While still other arenas of development required significantly loosening my uh... paradigmatic limitations.
Cybernetic_Jazz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:25 am There's another factor that I'd have to bring up, again from the place of development I'm at where almost all of my contact with this stuff is tactile with maybe some small amount of minds-eye visual but no clear discussion with anything at length or no at-length inner-eye contact with things, it's a world where most of these phenomena are black-boxed for me. I can feel them making contact with me immediately but I can't see their origin most of the time and so when they do come they can blind side me, and then when that does happen I have to spend my time then for a minute trying to contextualize what's happening or find what seems to be the most accurate basket to put that experience, phenomena, or contact in based on what clues it might yield.
That's a mighty big sandwich to digest all at once hehe. I've a near infinite appetite for knowledge and conception though, so 'yum' hehe.
I think being blind sided is pretty natural. I mean, sometimes you're just thinking about whether you have any mustard to put on the hot dogs, so you're not really focused on less material things at those times. This is kinda off topic, but one of the ways I discovered to become lucid during a dream, is that if a dream contained emotional reactions which I no longer actually have, but i'm more dreaming them out of memory, I'd very rapidly realize I was in a dream. That happens a lot less now though, since it's been a long time and such memories of ways of thinking/being are more distant.
The entity i call my mentor (which kinda on topic seems rather shaktic), always insisted that she did not like nor demand blind faith. But rather that whatever I needed to be shown to allay doubt, would be freely provided. Though not more than that (ie: to allay doubt? sure, but not for party tricks). For a while I needed a fair amount of reminding of proof. And eventually I didn't anymore, and I took the reality of her as a given.
I've also known entities who were internal to self but external to conscious awareness. Actually they painted a rather alarming picture of at least part of self, since typically such things would be more rooted in bits of self which I'd repressed.
One particular entity sticks out in my memory regarding this. An entity which seemed intent on showing me memories I did NOT want to revisit. At the time I took this to be a very hostile act, and responded with overwhelming force. I was in a gray area of knowing enough of self to be dangerous, without knowing all of self. In hindsight, I worry that I may have nuked the hell out of my emotional connection to certain memories. I suppose a valid question is whether my emotional connection to said memories is really destroyed (I actually think "yes", even though I know that may outwardly reek of seeming like rationalization). As well as the question of whether it's detrimental to do something like that. Which I don't really know the answer to. Life is change... perhaps I eviscerated a potential learning experience. Or badly navigated a portion of knowing self. Or perhaps I just moved on. I dunno. I did notice that the severity of my reaction intimidated numerous other entities (perhaps externalized internal beings?). Perhaps THAT was unhelpful too. Or maybe not. I'd handle it differently 'now', but I don't fret over the spilled milk.
I think it makes sense what you say about the body/mind/spirit just trying to balance things out somewhat with how you were pushing yourself so hard.
When I was young I feel like I had what I'd now call uncontrolled empathy, which made me extremely susceptible to glamours and influence. I was just extremely porous to outside influence. But that seems like almost a different person to who I am now. Not literally. It's just that I've changed soooo much, it's like describing someone else. I now think that being sensitive to things is just a matter of sense acuity, it doesn't really translate into being swayed at all anymore. Completely apart from the spiritual progression of gnothi se auton, and becoming just drastically more anchored... I spent a rather large amount of time & energy learning and understanding (and mastering) the subtleties of the unspoken communication between sentient beings. So for two completely separate reasons, independently of each other, I'm very very very difficult to sway.
In many ways I view consciousness as existing in a sort of interconnected web with all other consciousnesses, none really representing a fully autonomous state. But I've very little if anything remaining of unconscious thought, and I'm running on pretty thoroughly hacked software, so... I'm more concerned with accidentally exerting too much influence than I am with being influenced. To such an extent that I'm in a relationship with someone whom the state would call clinically difficult to get along with, to the point of being a disability. And I'm probably only still in the relationship because I appreciate that I can let my hair down without knocking him over.
Which isn't to say I'm not swayed by metaphysical glamour at all. It doesn't directly effect me (unless I willfully regress just for fun), but indirectly, it piques my interest. So it has a sort of effect, on a meta level. "Oh hello, that's interesting what you did there".
So anyway, if I were a figment in your head, and this universe was your imagined reality, then I'd have an X-mas list... hehe
Post by Cybernetic_Jazz » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:01 pm
A lot of good thoughts here, I was able to read it top to bottom but unfortunately am in the middle of a client inquiry (needing me to patch a program on the fly). Will try to get back to this later.
Post by Kath » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:44 am
Cybernetic_Jazz wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:01 pm A lot of good thoughts here, I was able to read it top to bottom but unfortunately am in the middle of a client inquiry (needing me to patch a program on the fly). Will try to get back to this later.
*poke*
(it's later )
Post by Cybernetic_Jazz » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:20 am
TY for the reminder. It is a Sunday and I finally stopped working so:
Kath wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:19 pm I definitely resonate with that. Blind faith is not, in my view, a virtue.
There's a Youtuber by the name of Theramin Trees that gets into the gnarlier aspects of human involvement with hierarchy and how people with personal needs for power and manipulation tend to fill certain slots (or how Nassim Taleb's minority rule seems to be something they use to condition the world around them). It's part of the problem with having too much murk in any area - the wrong people know exactly what to do with it, and they love child-like faith from others.
Kath wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:19 pm That is an interesting take on it. I'd be curious on more detail about the idea.
What's really the nexus of your being, your subconscious, runs on symbols. Symbols are a bit like logical operators and associations of logical operators don't just give you one answer, they give you the shape of the container for large sets of domains. With the tarot those symbol sets are given to a part of you that knows even better what to do with it because it's written in it's language.
Kath wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:19 pm Myself I've found that it could be a useful metaphor to say that in my spiritual path I've done some source code re-writing in myself. Some parts of the self, natural and valid parts of self, simply blocked progression, and had to be tamed or excised. While still other arenas of development required significantly loosening my uh... paradigmatic limitations.
Yeah, it seems like one of the ways of using the tarot key of Judgment is sniffing out what's not giving returns on investment in life and applying the sword, or transmuting one's relationship with it when separation isn't as practical.
Kath wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:19 pm I think being blind sided is pretty natural. I mean, sometimes you're just thinking about whether you have any mustard to put on the hot dogs, so you're not really focused on less material things at those times. This is kinda off topic, but one of the ways I discovered to become lucid during a dream, is that if a dream contained emotional reactions which I no longer actually have, but i'm more dreaming them out of memory, I'd very rapidly realize I was in a dream. That happens a lot less now though, since it's been a long time and such memories of ways of thinking/being are more distant.
My subconscious hasn't treated me to that yet. Might have to nudge her on it. For me it's almost like I'm too busy observing the content and interactions with it or its following the contours of where I'm going to such a degree that there's no friction to remind me that I'm dreaming.
Kath wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:19 pm The entity i call my mentor (which kinda on topic seems rather shaktic), always insisted that she did not like nor demand blind faith. But rather that whatever I needed to be shown to allay doubt, would be freely provided. Though not more than that (ie: to allay doubt? sure, but not for party tricks). For a while I needed a fair amount of reminding of proof. And eventually I didn't anymore, and I took the reality of her as a given.
That and I think many of those internal entities, when they dialog with you it's like 'Ah, yes, I know that gradient of emotion and thought' whereas with an external entity it really is as surprising and even orthogonal as talking to someone else in face-to-face life.
Kath wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:19 pm One particular entity sticks out in my memory regarding this. An entity which seemed intent on showing me memories I did NOT want to revisit. At the time I took this to be a very hostile act, and responded with overwhelming force. I was in a gray area of knowing enough of self to be dangerous, without knowing all of self. In hindsight, I worry that I may have nuked the hell out of my emotional connection to certain memories. I suppose a valid question is whether my emotional connection to said memories is really destroyed (I actually think "yes", even though I know that may outwardly reek of seeming like rationalization). As well as the question of whether it's detrimental to do something like that. Which I don't really know the answer to. Life is change... perhaps I eviscerated a potential learning experience. Or badly navigated a portion of knowing self. Or perhaps I just moved on. I dunno. I did notice that the severity of my reaction intimidated numerous other entities (perhaps externalized internal beings?). Perhaps THAT was unhelpful too. Or maybe not. I'd handle it differently 'now', but I don't fret over the spilled milk.
A lot of the contact I had was with an energy, and I really can't tell if it was internal or external fully - it may have been higher self being naughty. For better or worse I had to deal with some temptations that I never thought I'd have to deal with, on pretty high blast, and my various times of reflection, prayer, etc. that I got really suggested to me that this was something like my anima but perhaps even a rung or two higher. That and - I think this particular set of episodes, mostly lasting the course of a few years under quite traumatic work conditions, is wrapping up. I'm still not sure whether she was trying to show me a massive pool of repression that had developed on its own and was waiting for the right moment to try and hijack me, whether it was her trying to distract me with incredibly juicy and terrifying drama to get me through the drudgery of what I was doing (in which case it was quite a savage Mission Impossible sort of thing), or a bit of both. What I'm really interested in now though - what's next, now that I feel like I've just about rejected most if not all systems and really have no clue which entities I would, could, or should work with.
Kath wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:19 pm When I was young I feel like I had what I'd now call uncontrolled empathy, which made me extremely susceptible to glamours and influence. I was just extremely porous to outside influence. But that seems like almost a different person to who I am now. Not literally. It's just that I've changed soooo much, it's like describing someone else. I now think that being sensitive to things is just a matter of sense acuity, it doesn't really translate into being swayed at all anymore. Completely apart from the spiritual progression of gnothi se auton, and becoming just drastically more anchored... I spent a rather large amount of time & energy learning and understanding (and mastering) the subtleties of the unspoken communication between sentient beings. So for two completely separate reasons, independently of each other, I'm very very very difficult to sway.
I can relate to the first part of that. Strangeley I was diagnosed PDD-NOS when I was eleven and yet I felt like people could get in my head a bit too easily.
Kath wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:19 pm In many ways I view consciousness as existing in a sort of interconnected web with all other consciousnesses, none really representing a fully autonomous state. But I've very little if anything remaining of unconscious thought, and I'm running on pretty thoroughly hacked software, so... I'm more concerned with accidentally exerting too much influence than I am with being influenced. To such an extent that I'm in a relationship with someone whom the state would call clinically difficult to get along with, to the point of being a disability. And I'm probably only still in the relationship because I appreciate that I can let my hair down without knocking him over.
So the cool thing about this for me - I've really come to the sense that my anima is my house-keeper. It's a bit like she ballasts our counter-balances everything I do. I remember some of the times at a job, particularly professional ones, where it felt like everything was sinking beyond my capacity to control (which it was and they were terrible environments) or times where I was feeling profound doom about my future and I'd have experiences of either a female presence lovingly giggling at me or even sort of invading my internal visual space and singing songs to me flirtatiously. At times when I was suicidal, I mean truly at that point where logic wasn't turning up good fruit, it's like someone else in my own head would be trying to remind me of all the best times I'd had, all of the experiences of my childhood that were deep and meaningful, it's like there was something in me - even before I started on this work - that ran interference.
Kath wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:19 pm Which isn't to say I'm not swayed by metaphysical glamour at all. It doesn't directly effect me (unless I willfully regress just for fun), but indirectly, it piques my interest. So it has a sort of effect, on a meta level. "Oh hello, that's interesting what you did there".
That's sort of where, as I said earlier - if something is trying to seduce me into doing something that I don't want to do, it seems like the best way of handling it has been to say 'I'll take that seduction as something like gasoline, put it in my tank, burn it as fuel, and say 'thanks for that - I won't do what you want me to but keep sending it so I can use it''. Eventually that does tap out but it seems like it's one of the more powerful ways of dealing with over-influence, ie. showing the influencing entity or subpersonality that you know what your options are and can't easily be guiled into thinking you have fewer options than you do.
On a side note - I was watching a really good discussion on Tim Freke's 'What Is Life', he had John Vervaeke on, and John was talking about something that he's found as a byproduct of engaging so much with meaning and relevance realization, ie. the idea that as you go toward it information and wisdom itself isn't the answer so much as a kind of peace and joy that hits you without necessarily having be a result of a particular cognitive digestion or intellectual exercise that you wrapped your mind around. I think he has a point in that. Even though things aren't 'wildly' better in my outward life I do feel like the well of things that bothered me from within is depleting and after looking at what seemed like the bottomless horrors of being, such as the idea that the One Mind might make all sorts of divergent races set to accel or go extinct and it's not failure so much as triumph and tragedy being something like Godel's incompleteness theorem unpacking itself or life as these huge Julia sets and that our determinism is someone else's or something else's art - it seems like whatever was deeply disturbed is starting to find peace with the situation in ways I can't quite explain, even if I've worked straight through the weekend and stopped early today at 6:30 PM.
Post by Kath » Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:05 pm
Cybernetic_Jazz wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:20 am There's a Youtuber by the name of Theramin Trees that gets into the gnarlier aspects of human involvement with hierarchy and how people with personal needs for power and manipulation tend to fill certain slots (or how Nassim Taleb's minority rule seems to be something they use to condition the world around them). It's part of the problem with having too much murk in any area - the wrong people know exactly what to do with it, and they love child-like faith from others.
I had a long term relationship with another girl, long ago. She had a very low self esteem, lack of confidence, etc. I knew that (with her anyway) much of the reason she was in the relationship was born from her own weaknesses. I helped her become strong, and she went away. Painful, but I wouldn't change it.
Not everyone who's adept with the murk is full of ill intent. But there's definitely a tendency that way.
not completely sure that's enough elaboration for me hehe. sorry if i'm slow on the uptake here
hmmm, I'm pretty halfhazard with my path through life, in the ways that people tend to measure it. Was more referring to my path through enlightenment.
The biggest example for me, is the visceral experience of fear. Caution, thoughtfulness, I'm fine with those, but the visceral experience of fear was ...'unhelpful'. Anyway, if i feel fearful in a dream, it's like a huge tip-off that I'm in a non-lucid state. It really jumps out at me, a super-obvious tell.
Interesting how the realization of being non-lucid induces lucidity.
It depends on mutual focus, but I tend to think "ah yes, I know that gradient of emotion and thought" with other people or external entities. So it's not a very concrete example for me. But I get your meaning
I really only worked closely with one entity. But it was a very intensive 7 years.
I don't work with any entity now.
I kinda graduated the curriculum, so to speak. But unfortunately to get my degree I have to come up with the brilliant final thesis on my own, simply due to the intrinsic nature of the thing. That has proved more challenging.
I get in all of the heads, WAAAY too easily. This relates a bit to the first paragraph.
It's interesting that at one time I approached the issue of interacting with others more successfully in a rather mathematical fashion. I figured that if I didn't have social skill, I would compensate for it with gray matter. But the complexity of that system is vast, and the time constraints strict. Ultimately it becomes an art more than a math, as you have to kind of integrate complex ideas into a 'feel' for things. Like the difference between calculating a trajectory, and using hand-eye coordination, and synthesizing knowledge about trajectories and 'instinct' together, to actually catch a thrown ball in a timely manner.
It became a hobby. Something I made myself very good at. Over time I found many different fields merging and interlacing the subject. Psychology, energy manipulation, empathy, mesmerism, etc. Along with more mundane bits like body language, NLP, etc. I got perhaps too good at my hobby. To the point that it kinda took on that seductive aroma of power, which is all the more seductive if it's in an arena where you once felt powerless.
Monstrous capability can speak sweet nothings to the inner monster which all people have. But I put a lot of effort into exploring and unifying the whole of self too. And my inner monster and inner altruist know where each other sleeps, hehe. I've engendered a team spirit between the facets of self. So there's checks & balances. I am sometimes deliberately clumsy with interpersonal skills. It just seems more fair that way. And there's little point stroking a part of ego born of inadequacies which no longer exist.
there's a lot of facets of self.
I think I more just let a facet of self experience the craftsmanship of it.
It doesn't have any real influence at the larger round table of facets of self. Just fun exploring another being's art.
Post by Cybernetic_Jazz » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:35 am
I did some entheogen work Tuesday night and I think I had a bit more recognition added to this puzzle.
On one level this is actually the individual story of conscious and subconscious. I've come to realize that for most of my life when I'm well over the line of balance in some manner that I'll have subcurrents or pulls in the opposite direction. It's the sort of thing that saints or at least wannabe saints dealt with constantly as their minds constantly tempted them, and one mirror opposite manifestation might include certain sexual pathologies showing up at incredibly dark or difficult times in ones life.
Even though I don't think the scientific story is the only way to look at it there was a recent Royal Institute lecture by Mark Solms trying to pin the tail on consciousness - his suggestion was that it's actually back in the brainstem because he's had patients who exhibit it with either quite little cerebral cortex left or even none. The more important part though where his comments on emotion - that it's a homeostatic function, as the circling people in Silicon Valley would say that's 'alive' for me. I can think of a lot of the worst times in my life where something (pretty much my anima) popped through the veil and flirted with me. Extreme states seem to cause breaches of reality because they call for extreme measures with respect to retaining homeostasis.
The other thing that trips me out is remembering a map someone demonstrated of brain functioning and it wasn't just the usual knowledge that each hemisphere controls the opposite side of the body, the top of the brain controlled the feet and it seemed like a front-onward look at the brain mapped functioning in something like a mirror-inverse way to where whatever it was happened to be positioned in the body. That's a freaky analogy to run into when then comparing with the homeostatic balancing that the conscious and subconscious minds work out.
Also up late tonight because it's been happening a lot in the past few months - ie. waking up 90 minutes after I go to sleep with all sorts of instructions or communications from my subconscious, a bit like it's throwing me a rope every time and asking me to anchor it on my end.
Post by Kath » Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:12 pm
Subcurrents pulling in the opposite direction...
Temptation, repressed thoughts and impulses, and approach-avoidance conflict are the bane of the ascetic,
and the casual acquaintances of the tantric.
also though, you'll attract outside uh... influence, based on what you're radiating outward. And what you radiate outward is NOT limited to what you're willing to consciously admit to thinking. Repressed things, pent up and under pressure, can call out to currents of similar vibration, even if not consciously dwelt upon.
Not that everything always needs to be dealt with in the open. Sometimes there's a better time and place to deal with them. And sometimes memories are better to let die. Just be mindful that you don't bury anything which seems like it would fester, or grow.
On a side note, I think that having a lot of cross-purpose activity in the mind is very disempowering. Focus, Intent, and Will are all vastly stronger with a singular holistically-integrated cogitation. (sorry if that sounds like word salad hehe)
Post by Cybernetic_Jazz » Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:03 am
Thank you. That rings a lot of bells for me right now. What's there is under a bit less pressure lately, ie. it doesn't seem like its under psychotic break levels of pressure trying to get out but I definitely still wake up regularly between 1 and 2 AM lets just say laden with encouragement.
Post by Amor » Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:39 am
>I definitely still wake up regularly between 1 and 2 AM
In TCM this is a symptom of an over-heated liver.
Visualize the cloud of heat attached to the liver, draw up a tube from the Earth and ask the Earth to suck out the excess heat.
This works for excess of any element
Return to "Reason and Unreason"


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Spoken Word Poet Brandon Leake Just Won "America's Got Talent"—Does America Love Poetry?
Posted On : September 25, 2020 Published By : Evette Sarah Johnson
When you think of poetry, what comes to mind?
Maybe it's Robert Frost making trivial choices sound important, or Emily Dickinson giving voice to alienation, or Edgar Allan Poe writing his creepy love to his so-much-younger cousin/wife.
Generally speaking—to the extent we think about poetry at all—Americans tend to think of it as something a handful of dead people did in order to make our high school English classes slightly more dull and confusing. But there is another strain of poetry that doesn't feel so buried in the past–a form that was pioneered by people who are still alive and that's still thriving.
Golden Buzzer: Brandon Leake Makes AGT History With Powerful Poetry – America's Got Talent 2020
Spoken word poetry—also known as slam poetry—isn't written to be read alone in a quiet room, but to be performed. A compelling amalgam of rap, stand-up comedy, and personal essay that plays with rhyme, wordplay and poetic forms, spoken word found it's footing in the Lower East Side of New York City in the 1970s and '80s at the Nuyorican Poets Cafe; it was made famous in the early 2000s by HBO's Def Poetry Jam.
The form is still thriving on college campuses across the country, especially among young Black and Latinx poets who have found the emotive power of spoken word well-suited to expressing experiences of heritage, oppression, and triumph.
It's a form that lends itself to serious topics and deeply personal disclosure, which sounds at odds with the tone of a lighthearted show like America's Got Talent, which more often celebrates ventriloquists, magicians, dancers, singers, adorable children, and performing pets. It's not the kind of forum where you would typically expect to find—for instance—a moving perspective on the killings of Ahmaud Arbery, George Floyd, and Breonna Taylor. But 2020 has been anything but a typical year…
Brandon Leake Performs Heart-Wrenching Spoken Word to His Mother – America's Got Talent 2020
Back in June, Brandon Leake made his first appearance on the show, performed a moving tribute to his late sister, and received a rare golden buzzer from Howie Mandel—automatically sending him to the quarter finals.
As Mandel put it at the time, "It's amazing to me that on Season 15 it's the first time we're hearing … spoken word. There's something more raw … No music, no nothing. Just a raw heart beating in front of us. We feel your pain. We feel your love and you moved me to do this."
With each subsequent performance Leake proved his skill with words, and his ability to translate heavy subjects like the daunting task of fatherhood and the deadly reality of racism in America into compelling and uplifting performances.
Then, this week, Brandon Leake went up against two musical acts in the season finale, and the first spoken word artist to ever appear on the show became the season 15 winner. As Leake put it, "This is a huge win for the spoken-word community. For an art form that has not been on the mainstream ever to have a chance to win America's Got Talent is bigger than anything,"
And he's definitely right. But does this victory mean that spoken word is finally about to enter the mainstream? Does the fact that an audience of millions of AGT viewers voted for Brandon Leake mean that America loves poetry now?
There's no doubt that this has raised the profile of spoken word poetry, but anyone who's hoping that this points to a resurgence of interest in poetry in American culture should probably not hold their breath. While it may turn out that this is the start of a new American love affair with poetry, the only thing we know for sure is that America loves Brandon Leake.
Brandon Leake Delivers Emotional Spoken Word to His Daughter – America's Got Talent 2020
The 27-year-old is handsome, earnest, and upbeat, with an infectious smile and an approachable demeanor. His talent as a poet and a performer are undeniable, but he's also just about the best possible ambassador for the spoken word form. He's serious and political, weaving in touches of humor, powerful imagery, and surprising wordplay, and tying everything back to his Christian faith. Of course America loves him.
So, while it's hard to say whether this moment will lead to a broader renaissance of performance poetry, we can definitely expect to see more of Brandon Leake in the future.
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After a surprising approval, China has removed six different LGBTQ moments from Bohemian Rhapsody.
In total, the Chinese government removed two minutes of LGBTQ content from Bohemian Rhapsody in China.
Two minutes may not sound like a lot, but it scrubs six key moments from the Queen biopic, including one that results in a gaping plot hole for the Chinese audience.
The movie opened on March 22nd in China. The movie tells the story of Queen's frontman, Freddie Mercury, an icon important to both the music industry and the LGBTQ community.
Mercury died of AIDS-related illnesses at 45 years old.
Despite this censorship, many in the LGBTQ community have actually called the release a victory. Chinese censors banned the portrayal of any "abnormal sexual behavior" in 2016, so the fact that the movie was still released could be considered a win.
In the original film, Mercury was dating his manager, Paul Prenter, who roughly kisses him in a scene not shown in the version shown to the Chinese audience.
They removed these two important lines from the Chinese version.
In the version shown to the Chinese audience Roger Taylor gives the haircut a funny look, but the line is gone.
Freddie Mercury is drunk and gropes a server at his party. This is the first time we see the server, Jim. Later, Jim is around, but the Chinese audience doesn't know where he came from as their meeting isn't in the Chinese release. Later on, a kiss between Mercury and Jim is also gone.
At one point early in the movie Freddie Mercury is performing and a camera zooms in on his crotch as he moves his hips. His producer then gets angry about this, so it's an important part of the plot. The Chinese release doesn't exactly remove this moment entirely, but cuts it down to a split-second.
The Chinese version skips all of this. The movie jumps to show the band getting angry at MTV for banning the music video.