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Airline food service workers stage a die-in at Philadelphia International Airport. | UNITE HERE Philly
Working Stiff
Kim Kelly, November 1
From Boston to Wisconsin, vulnerable workers push back against impossible conditions
The U.S. working class is currently riding a mighty strike wave, the likes of which hasn't been seen since the height of Ronald Reagan's 1980s union-busting spree. The biggest stories have dominated the headlines for weeks, or—in the case of the ongoing #RedforEd movement within the education sector—even years, and their main characters have become folk heroes: The CTU and SEIU teachers and support staff of Chicago fighting for a better future for their coworkers, their students, and their city. The UAW factory workers of General Motors who left the line cold for almost six weeks to end discrimination and inequality at a company that had grown fat off of a government bailout and kept the spoils for itself. The Uber and Lyft drivers leading protests for the fair wages and safer working conditions that their Silicon Valley overlords will do anything to avoid paying for. The fast food workers of #Fightfor15 calling for basic dignity, a $15 minimum wage, and a union, who have forced the national conversation (and the current crop of presidential hopefuls) to catch up to their demands.
These and so very many other players are the driving force behind our current moment of widespread labor unrest, one that has seen almost half a million workers hit the bricks in pursuit of a better deal since 2018. The year's not over yet, and it's likely that those numbers will shoot even higher before 2020. While a bona fide general strike may still be a revolutionary's daydream (for now . . . ), one thing is certain: direct action gets the goods. More and more regular working people, union and otherwise, have realized that the only way to win anything resembling equity—let alone liberation—is through militant collective action, and they've shown that they are prepared to take that battle to the bargaining table, to the picket lines, and to the streets. The spirit of 1919 lives on a century later, even if it looks a little different.
Striking a Blow
By Kim Kelly
The trouble now is that there are so many campaigns, actions, and contract fights happening at any given moment that it can be difficult to keep up—even when it's your job to do so. I was recently commiserating over this very quandary with another labor reporter (one of the small but dedicated group of journalists covering this beat), lamenting the fact that we can't cover every story because of the dwindling number of publications to pitch, the bane of editorial indifference, and our own occasional need to sleep. Every strike or protest determines the well-being and livelihood of dozens if not hundreds of workers, but a cruel fact of our media ecosystem is that some strikes reap hundreds of headlines, while others languish in near-silence. Contrast the amount of (well-deserved!) press that the GM strike received with the coverage of the 1,800 Spectrum cable company workers of IBEW Local 3 who have been out on strike for over two and a half years. If a worker on the picket line cries out for justice and nobody hears it, what does that say about our movement? It must be emphasized: every strike matters, and every good contract won is a victory for workers everywhere.
The spirit of 1919 lives on a century later, even if it looks a little different.
It's true that the amount of labor reporting at various publications has rapidly increased over the past few years, due in no small part to digital media's post-2015 organizing wave led by the Writers Guild of America, East and the NewsGuild (as well as endless bloodletting in the form of recurring mass layoffs). The quickest way to change someone's opinion on unions is to drop them into a bargaining session with the boss to see exactly how the sausage is made; much like Soylent Green, the main ingredient is people. The fledgling organizing efforts in tech and ongoing student worker organizing campaigns at ivory towers like Harvard (whose grad student union just held a 90 percent pro-strike authorization vote!) have also attracted interest from a mainstream media who'd long ago written off the working class as a bunch of bigoted roughnecks in hard hats. Of course, movement publications like Labor Notes, The Nation, and In These Times have been chronicling these stories, big and small, for decades, and upstart newsletter Strikewave has done an admirable job following in their footsteps. No one can cover everything happening in this chaotic capitalist dystopia, but it's heartening that so many of us are trying. It is my intent with this monthly missive to shed light on those labor stories that may have gotten lost in the shuffle or taken place too far outside East Coast centers of power to have warranted closer inspection from establishment sources.
Take the hotel workers at Boston's Battery Wharf Hotel, who have been on strike since September 5. Represented by UNITE HERE—the food service staff and hospitality union whose members have made a name for themselves with their fearlessness—these seventy-five hotel workers walked following a year-long contract battle with the Ontario-based Westmont Hospitality Group, the hotel's operators. The main bones of contention were wages and pensions, as well as safeguarding job security, diversity, protections for immigrant workers, a union-provided healthcare plan, and strong sexual harassment protections. The latter are an absolute essential in an industry where women of color make up the majority of the workforce, and harassment and assault are common. Battery Wharf is the only hotel in Boston that has not agreed to UNITE HERE's terms; the union represents thirty-two hotels in the city and concluded a forty-six-day strike at the Boston Marriott in 2018.
The ever-dependable Teamsters, who handle deliveries and trash pick-ups at Battery Wharf, have refused to cross the picket line, and the strikers have also picked up support from several politicians, including Senator Elizabeth Warren. British folk singer and activist Billy Bragg played a few songs at a "massive" October 4th rally, which surely provided a morale boost for those who have been putting in twelve-hour days on the picket lines for nearly two months. As UNITE HERE's Nicki Morris told me, Strike leader Serandou Kamara is a former refugee from Sierra Leone who, in 2009, at seven months pregnant, was fired along with nearly a hundred other non-union Hyatt housekeepers in favor of lower-paid subcontractors. It was then that she secured a union job and rose to become a crucial voice in UNITE HERE Local 26. While the enthusiasm and energy among Kamara and the rest of the strikers is high, with no resolution in sight, the Battery Wharf workers still have their work cut out for them.
UNITE HERE's rallying cry of "One Job Should Be Enough!" also echoed through the halls of Philadelphia International Airport last week, when low-wage airline food workers (the majority of whom are immigrants from West Africa) employed by LSG Sky Chefs, an American Airlines contractor, staged a die-in by the ticket counters. American Airlines hubs have the lowest wage standards for subcontracted airline catering workers, and health care is a major issue for their employees; according to a recent UNITE HERE survey of 2,200 workers, many travel back and forth from different countries to access medical care because it ends up being cheaper than going through the company insurance. In a touching display of solidarity, Boston-based Local 26 members bussed down to Philly to support their union siblings. As UNITE HERE President D. Taylor told the New York Times earlier this month, "The government is not going to take care of us. Business is not going to take care of us. We've got to take care of ourselves."
According to a recent UNITE HERE survey of 2,200 workers, many travel back and forth from different countries to access medical care.
The choice of a die-in was a strategic one for the airline food workers, whose right to strike is not well-protected, thanks to the Railway Labor Act. The federal law, which was passed in 1926 and amended in 1934 and 1936, oversees unionization and collective bargaining for railways and airlines; it was created with the goal of keeping the nation's transportation infrastructure running smoothly even in the face of worker unrest. As a result, it discourages these workers from striking and requires that they receive approval from the National Mediation Board before they can legally hit the picket lines.
The Association of Flight Attendants (AFA), who are revered for their militant strike tactics—a profoundly destabilizing program known as CHAOS—have filed two separate release requests to the NMB on behalf of their members at the regional airline Air Wisconsin (operated by United Airlines) this year alone: one in May, and another in October. Workers at Air Wisconsin make as little as $15,000 per year, their wages have been frozen since 2007, and overall, they are compensated 45 percent less than flight attendants on mainline carriers. They've been stalled in contract negotiations with United for years, but have turned up the pressure with pickets at airports in in Milwaukee, Chicago, and Washington, D.C. With the support of the AFA-CWA and its firebrand president, Sara Nelson, Wisconsin Air's flight attendants are digging in for battle; last year, the result of their strike authorization vote was 99 percent in favor.
"We have been in mediation at Air Wisconsin for three years," says AFA-CWA President Sara Nelson. "The flight attendants live in poverty and the company's wage proposal is at 2 percent. They fly under the United brand and United needs to help out. . . . Now we're turning up the heat."
While airline workers remain hamstrung by early twentieth century labor law, more recent legislation in New York has worked to expand farmworkers' rights. The passage of the Farm Workers Bill and establishment of the Farm Laborers Fair Labor Practices Act will finally give them collective bargaining rights in the state and grant them the long-overdue basic worker protections they are currently denied under the 1935 National Labor Relations Act, which excludes several categories of vulnerable workers, including independent contractors—more on that later. The bill takes effect on January 1, 2020, and will enshrine farmworkers' right to overtime pay, a day of rest each week, disability and Paid Family Leave coverage, unemployment benefits, and other labor protections. While this law is certainly good news (provided that employers actually follow its letter), one beloved brand has already potentially run afoul of its mandate.
Chobani Yogurt prides itself on its progressive reputation. But its workers are concerned about the company's new partnership with Fair Trade USA, an organization with a long documented history of labor violations and worker exploitation. On October 10, a coalition of labor organizations including SEIU Local 32BJ, the Workers Center of Central New York, the Worker Justice Center of New York, and the Farm Worker Labor Organizing Committee, AFL-CIO penned an open letter to Chobani founder and CEO Hamdi Ulukaya. They called on the company to commit to respecting union organizing rights. So far, Chobani has made no public acknowledgement of its workers' demand to organize, even after one of the dairy farms that supplies Chobani, Mark's Farm, fired workers for trying to form a union. One former dairy worker published an impassioned op-ed in the New York Daily News detailing the grueling conditions and substandard wages that he and his coworkers endured to make Chobani's products—giving the lie once again to "compassionate" capitalism and demonstrating that in the wretched game of chance that is our current economic system, even the gentlest roll of the dice from a rich man's hands can spell misery for the working class.
Farmworkers aren't the only group of workers excluded from the NLRA who have been speaking up and making serious gains in various state legislatures. While the passage of Assembly Bill 5 in California remains controversial for a freelance journalist carve-out that limits writers to filing thirty-five pieces per year before a company must hire them as an employee—freelancers say that this will lead to publications simply hiring out-of-state writers instead—it will make a serious impact on the lot of ride-hail drivers who work for apps like Uber and Lyft by forcing the tech companies to reclassify these workers as employees, and thereby provide them with basic worker protections. Uber and Lyft, however, are fighting tooth and nail to avoid treating their employees like humans, or even acknowledging them as employees, so the ramifications of AB5 are hard to predict.
In the wretched game of chance that is our current economic system, even the gentlest roll of the dice from a rich man's hands can spell misery for the working class.
In New York, the Independent Driver Guild, a Machinists Union project to organize and support app-based drivers, has been organizing since 2016 around an extremely basic human need: for drivers to have access to restroom facilities at New York City-area airports. The campaign came out of an IDG women's meet-up and has been led by women drivers, though drivers of all genders are affected by the lack of facilities. When they began organizing, there wasn't so much as a port-a-potty in the JFK airport waiting lot. As the IDG pointed out, taxi drivers, travelers, and even pets had facilities at the airport—but there was no restroom for ride-hail drivers. In 2017, they were finally given port-a-potties; now, years later, drivers have won running water restroom trailers at Newark, La Guardia, and JFK. Port Authority has also passed a proposal to build permanent facilities, including a prayer/meditation area and washing station. According to the IDG, Uber agreed to contribute to the costs of the project by paying for the Port Authority trailer; Lyft declined. The guild's members are still waiting on improvements in Manhattan, though; as a guild representative said, "We submitted a proposal years ago [to the New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission and Department of Transportation] and it has been sitting in bureaucracy ever since."
"It should never have been this hard to get running water restroom facilities in the wealthiest metropolitan area on earth, but I am proud of our work to make this happen," says Uber driver and IDG steward Michele Dottin. "I am proud to be part of the sisterhood that improved working conditions for more than one hundred thousand for-hire drivers who serve our airports, our sisters and brothers behind the wheel."
The common thread uniting all of these struggles is that they're being spearheaded by some of the most marginalized and vulnerable workers in the movement, who are fighting from positions that have historically not been well-protected by labor law while also pushing against the yoke of systemic oppression. By facing down these seemingly insurmountable odds, they've made their mark on the current labor landscape—whether or not they made headlines along the way.
Kim Kelly is a freelance writer and labor organizer whose writing on labor, radical politics, and culture has appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Guardian, The New Republic, Teen Vogue, Pacific Standard, and many others. She is a proud member of and councilperson for the Writers Guild of America, East.
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December 25, 2007 October 10, 2013 Destiny All Articles, Free Speech, Politics, Law & War
Real-life miracles were the subject of Van Jones' keynote address at the Craigslist Foundation's "Nonprofit Boot Camp" last year.
He amused and inspired his audience with the story of his early days at the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights.
There's probably at least one person, and maybe more than one, who feels like their little not-for-profit just may not make it.
There may be somebody that feels like their cause is too marginal, their constituency is too desperate, their dreams are too big, their knowledge base is too small, and they just don't know if they're going to be able to pull this one off. If you're that person, I want to tell you a little bit about my story, my secret rules for success if you're doing tough things, and to remind you how important it is that you stick this out.
Ten years ago, all I had with my co-founder was a $10,000 grant and a scribble in my notebook, and we had a dream. We wanted to do something about police brutality. We wanted to do something about kids suffering in prison. We wanted to do something about the level of violence that was going on in our community. All we had was each other and that idea.
The very first champion that we got — the first person who was on our side, the chair of our advisory board who was our hero — told us "Frankly, man, you will never raise enough money to cover your own salary on this. I think you're great, I like what you're doing, but you will never raise enough money to actually have a full staff. But I like you, I like what you're doing, and I'm willing to lend my name." And that was our most enthusiastic supporter!
Eleven years later, we have a national organization. We have 24 people on staff, we occupy a two-story building, and we've won international awards and recognition for our human rights effort. We've stopped jails from being built, and we've been able to make a difference. In just ten years. I want you to know that looking back on it, you know what it looks like? It just looks like a series of miracles. Just miracle after miracle after miracle after miracle.
The only way we were able to get to those miracles was that we believed in what we were doing. When we first started out, we had a closet in the back of the Lawyer's Committee for Civil Rights. When I say closet, I'm not joking. It was literally a closet, that we took the shelves out of, wedged in a desk from my house, moved the tiles, dropped down wires so we could plug things in... That was our office for three years.
I'm thankful to Eva Patterson from the Lawyer's Committee for Civil Rights for giving us that opportunity. We took that closet and a Macintosh SE-30 from my house and our $10,000, and we started announcing that we had a hotline for survivors of police brutality and police misconduct. I think the first week we got one phone call. The second week we got two or three. Within about two months, we were getting three to four phone calls a day from people in the community who had no place else to turn... We were young lawyers and they were calling on us, and we were doing the best that we could.
But we were spending down that little $10,000 very quickly. We got to the place where we literally didn't have any more money. Diana and I looked at each other and we said, "You know what? We'll go on unemployment. We'll do whatever we have to do. We cannot let these people down."
I got on KPFA radio. I said "My name is Van Jones, and I'm working with Bay Area Police Watch. We're running into some trouble right now, but we want you to know, keep calling us. We're going to have to reduce our hours, but we're going to stick in there." The day before we spent our last dime — literally — we got a letter in the mail. An anonymous donation of $50,000.
"Hey! We might be able to keep going!" We took that $50,000, and we decided, you know what? We're going to go after the worst police officer in the Bay Area, a man named Mark Andaya. He had 27 formal complaints against him for racism and brutality. Remember this case? There were five lawsuits against him, and he was still on the police force. We took that money and launched a campaign to get him removed from the San Francisco police department.
Keeping On
We went through hell. We went through three hearings, we went through ups and downs, but at the end of that summer, the San Francisco police department fired Mark Andaya. It was a huge breakthrough. Suddenly we went from being these kids in the closet to being the people who'd really gotten something done in the community. And, we were broke again! Because we forgot to write grants. We're just fighting, just out there, just broke and ignorant — but passionate!
But we'd already had two miracles. We were still there, and we'd gotten this guy who had killed two people out of our community. There was an African-American woman at a prestigious local foundation who'd listened to us on the radio, had seen us on TV, had heard about what we were trying to do. I'd sent her a letter letting her know that we'd like to apply for a grant, but we didn't get a chance to, we'd missed the deadline, and please, please... "Mercy?"
This woman said "You know, I've been working at this foundation for a long time, and I've been waiting for someone to come out of the community, out of the neighborhood, who was really willing to do what it takes to make a difference. I don't have any more discretionary money. But I do have the $40,000 that we've always given to the symphony... And we're going to give it to you."
Miracles.
Now, she no longer works there. But she is well taken care of at another foundation...
We just kept on, and kept on, and kept on. If at any moment we had gotten too rational, if at any moment we'd actually done the math on how many foundations are committed to this thing and that thing, we wouldn't be here at all. You have a dream inside yourself, and it's an impossible dream. That's why the creator gave it to your crazy ass. If it was easy, She'd have given it to somebody else.
So let's talk about your impossible dream. You need some miracles. Good luck with that. But I can give you, as a 10-year veteran, my five counter-intuitive and probably immoral success secrets.
1. Self promote
2. Steal
3. Don't Lie
4. Hate your enemies, but love your rivals.
5. Do less.
Number One, Self Promotion. People say, "Van, you're a shameless self-promoter. We're disgusted with your shameless self-promotion!" And I say, "Au contraire, my friend. I am not a shameless self-promoter. I am a proud self promoter."
Because I'm proud of the work we're doing. I'm proud of the people on our team. I'm proud of the fights we take on. I'm proud there are still people coming out of law school who are willing to take on these crazy crusades. If I don't tell the story, if I don't share the victory, if I don't share the lessons — who will?
We have a simple theory about how we built this organization, and the only thing it requires is you've got to be willing. We call it the three-M conversion: Mobilization, Media, Money. If you're serious about scaling an organization that's small, with a marginal constituency, doing very difficult stuff, you've got to mobilize. You've got to do something! You've got to take on a fight, you've got to help somebody. You've got to get something done. But too many of us stop there, and then we wonder why the support that we need doesn't come.
We get bitter, and we get angry, and we look at the group over there that has two more dollars than we do, and we start making them the enemy, and start this whole competitive thing, and start in-fighting, and it just depresses everybody. Then some poor intern comes to work for you. They see all this drama and all this crazy stuff, and they say "I was just trying to help the poor! I didn't know I was joining an armed faction!"
So let's just de-mystify this whole thing. Do good stuff — mobilize resources, do something — and then, media. Write a press release, think about how to get some coverage. A lot of times, people don't want to cover our stuff? That's fine. Take the photo your damn self! Video cameras are small and cheap. Record your meeting, interview your people... Document your passion.
Document the people that you've helped. Document what you're doing so you can show it to somebody who wasn't there. That's a critical step, and we forget, don't we? We get so passionate about, "The meeting's going to be at 4:00, we've got to have the kids and the pizza..." When we get finished, we're so tired we go home... And there's not one single photograph.
You might've served 10,000 people and don't have one photograph, while the person next door served 20, and has a glossy manual. And you know who you're mad at? Them! You could've had a glossy manual... But you're mad at them, and now we've got drama. Document, and then take that documentation to people who have money.
People say, "Aw, I don't want to deal with the fund-raising. It's not about the money to me." Obviously it's not about the money for you, you're working for a non-profit! But people who have means and who have discretionary income and who have different types of financial instruments want to be helpful, and they want to be engaged — but they don't live in your neighborhood! By definition, they don't. They need some help understanding the situation. That's the media part, the documentation.
You have to get as passionate about talking to the people with as you are talking to the people without. Because we need each other, and you're the bridge person. If you were just desperate and needing of services and help, you wouldn't be working at a not-for-profit. If you were a gazillionaire, you probably also wouldn't be working at a non-profit. So you are the person whose job it is to bring the haves and the have-nots together. And you have to be passionate about that. Yeah, somebody will say "You self promote! You're self-promoting!" Fine, and proudly so! Get that out of your mind as a barrier, and look at the service you can provide by documenting your work.
Number Two, Steal. Steal! I don't mean steal money. Steal ideas! Talk to other people who don't work on your project. If you go to New York to see your friends or your parents, look up the other groups working in a similar area and say hello. If you can't meet with the executive director, that's good, because if the organization is more than five years old the executive director has no idea what's going on anyways.
Talk to the program officer, the deputy director, the receptionist — and steal ideas. And grab onto people that you stole the ideas from. If you go overseas, make sure to visit some of the non-governmental organizations in other countries. It's amazing how many problems have already been solved that you're still stewing in and suffering through.
Our first two years, 100% of all of the paperwork we had for checking in people and interviewing them we'd stolen from a similar project in Los Angeles. I went down there, I'd knocked on their door, I said hello, I told them what we were trying to do... They were very friendly, and said, "This is our paperwork," and I said "Thank you!" I got a Bic pen — remember, I told you we were broke? — and wrote on the top of it, "Bay Area Police Watch." And then we photocopied that thing for two years!
So you've got to be willing to steal. And people love it! People will brag about it, saying "Well you know, we're now the thought leaders in the field. Our model is being replicated." So it's good for them. So I'm not saying anything immoral yet.
Number Three, Don't Lie. This is for real. There is something about the relationship between the not-for-profit sector, the government, the foundations, and the donors that creates a massive incentive to lie — flagrantly, and often.
And it's not just a one-sided thing. The relationship between not-for-profits and foundations is like the relationship between teenagers and parents. You don't really want to tell them everything that's going on, and they don't really want to know. So there's this dance of deceit, shall we say.
"What'd you do this weekend?"
"Oh... Studied! With my friends."
And the parents say "Good! So glad to hear that!" Because they don't want to know. And so what do you say?
"How did the year go?"
"We had success after success! All goals were met, and a good time was had by all."
And what was there left to say? "Good! Good!" They don't want to know about the youth in your program that cussed you out and set the building on fire. They don't want to know that you hired somebody once again who was a complete idiot. They don't want to know, and you don't want to tell them, and therefore we all stay very ignorant. Then the actual innovation curve has flattened out, because nobody's telling the truth about what we're going through any more. We're all self-deceiving and trying to make it look good.
At the Ella Baker Center, we adopted a reporting form that freaked out our board and advisors. It was very simple: highlights, low lights, and lessons learned. We created a discipline in the organization that we would report out the bad stuff. First of all, everybody knows the bad stuff anyway, because the person you fired is talking right now, so it's not like it's not out there. But did you learn anything?
Program officers at foundations, donors, and philanthropists are just inundated with lying, false crap. And they know they're being lied to. If you took all your annual reports and just read them end to end, you'd have to conclude that we're now living in a socialist paradise. Everything's going well, people are being served, and all the children are happy. And then you look at any newspaper, and it's very clear that we might be fudging a bit.
So my experience has been that donors and program officers love to actually get the truth. They don't punish you for it if you learned something. I think if all of us started to confess a little bit more, we would learn a little bit faster.
Number Four: Hate Your Enemies, if you must, but love your rivals — and know the difference. Your enemies are people like Nazis, okay? Your enemies are people who want to do you bodily harm, who hate you, and who are actively plotting your demise, with weapons. Just about everybody else that you don't get along with is probably a rival. They run an organization and you run an organization, or they have a department and you have a department. Or they have a cubicle, and you have a cubicle. And you just don't get along. You don't see eye to eye, there's some jealousy, you have different communication patterns. Their mom was this way, your dad was that way — you're working it out.
But we turn those minor differences into adversarial wars. It's fine to hate your enemies if you must. Jesus, Gandhi, other people would argue with you, but if you insist, fine. Hate your enemies. But most of the people you see every day are not your enemy. I've got emotional scars and damage from being in this work, and I've never even met a Republican! Even with people who fundamentally agree with everything I think, we just fight and hurt each other and say mean things, and think mean thoughts. All the time! That's called the movement. That's called the progressive community, right?
I want to make the case that we should actually love our rivals, and we should develop a discipline about bragging on our rivals. One group doesn't like us very much at all. I started talking about them first at every funder meeting. "I'm so happy to be here. Before I tell you about our work, have you heard about X group? They're doing extraordinary work. They did this last year, they did this this year. If you don't know about them, I want to make sure you know about them before the meeting's over. Now let me tell you about what we're doing..."
I developed the discipline in my own mind that I was going to brag on my rivals. I was going to love them, I was going to learn from them. I was going to try to figure out what it was that I could do differently in the relationship. I want to report that it has made no difference, at all, in the way they treat me. But it's made a tremendous difference in the way that other people view our organization and the way that we view ourselves. We're lighter. Love your rivals.
Number Five, Do Less. When I first came into this movement, we named the organization after a woman named Ella Baker, a civil rights heroine from the sixties. Ella Baker said many, many wise things. One of the things that caught on was something she said in a moment of frustration. Some civil rights workers had been murdered — two Jews and a black — and while they were trying to find these civil rights workers, they kept coming up with body after body after body of black men that had been lynched and drowned down through the ages. The media kept saying, "Well, that's interesting but what about the two white kids?" She got frustrated, and she said in that moment of frustration — and it didn't represent her life, but she said "We who believe in freedom cannot rest. We who believe in freedom cannot rest until all mothers' children are honored."
It's rung down through the decades since she said that. I just drank the Kool-Aid on that. "We who believe in freedom cannot rest. We cannot rest. We cannot rest. We cannot..." And I hurt myself. Physically, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually. I really hurt myself.
July 17, 2000, I had a complete emotional, physical, psychological breakdown. I literally could not get out of bed. I'd gone for years without — I would sleep with my clothes on, and the lights on, books all around me on the bed. I never took a vacation. For years it never occurred to me to take a vacation. Something just popped in my brain. It was almost audible. I was in deep trouble.
I'd been in all these coalition meetings, and it occurred to me that over the past couple years, in every meeting I'd been surrounded by idiots. I had to deal with them, and point out their flaws, and stop them from wreaking havoc, and... I was burning out, and I didn't know it. I had to take about two years of counseling, therapy, learning to go to the gym — things I'd just never done — just to be able to get back to doing this work.
My dad was an alcoholic, so I'd said, "Well I'm not going to do that," but then I was into this workaholism thing. I pulled out of it, and when I came back I saw that it was just everywhere. So what I want to say to you, very clearly, is that you have emotional needs. You have physical needs. You need to get them taken care of outside of this work.
You need to have something outside of this work where you go for re-charging, where you talk to people who don't do this kind of work, so you can keep it in perspective. So when you go into those board meetings and you go into those coalition things, you're coming with something. We who believe in freedom have to rest. We have to rest.
Our country is in a difficult situation now. We're facing difficult days. You're the people who are the reserve strength of the country. You're this nascent, pro-democracy movement trying to revive the best in the United States. It's important that you see yourselves in that way.
We tend in our movement to forget who we are. The legacy that we're carrying out, the shoes that we're standing in, the call that we're answering. Dr. Martin Luther King never gave a speech called "I Have...A Complaint." That wasn't his speech. The brother had a dream. And you have dreams. You have big, beautiful dreams. You will not be able to meet them alone. You need friends, you need solidarity, you need partnership, you need a movement.
But in a difficult period like the one that we're in right now, that's when there's opportunities for she-roes and heroes to step forward. People remember Roosevelt and Churchill and those guys because Hitler made it an awful, hard decade for them, and they rose to that. It's the same with every other hero and she-ro. This is a time for heroes. This is a time for she-ros. I want you to be the people who in the difficult times stood up for the best in this country, who said "We are willing to say that we'll defend America's freedoms." Who will say that the people who want to tear up the Constitution at the first opportunity are not the patriots. The patriots are the people who are willing to defend America's freedoms, the people who are willing to defend people's freedom to marry who they want to, and divorce who they want to.
We're the people who are willing to say America should be number one in the world. But not in war. Not in pollution. Not in incarceration rates. America should be number one in the world in green and clean technology, in solar power, in bio-diesel, in sharing those beautiful things with the world. We should be number one in showing how a rainbow nation — multi-colored, multi-class, multi-hued, multi-language — can come together and fix real problems, and show a rainbow planet how it's done. That's who we should be.
I believe if we do our work in that spirit, with that knowledge, with that commitment, we will build the kind of pro-democracy movement that will get past left and right, past black and white and yellow and every other color, and get back down to the very basics of who we are as people. People who believe, people who stand for something.
People who understand that at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, our love, our hope, our faith, and our commitment, is stronger than a bomb from anybody.
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She-ro? I believe the word is heroine, though at this point 'hero' is essentially gender-neutral in common usage. Sorry to focus on a triviality – it just bugged me a bit – otherwise, an interesting article.
The audio of this is available at http://sic.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail3167.html – it is absolutely fantastic.
Interesting article? I say brilliant. What a call to arms, man. I love it. Makes my grizzled old ass feel good about the future, dammit!
alex gong says:
Thanks for this article, I think it's directly applicable to anyone who has an idea, a dream, or passion that they truly believe will change the world for the better. Good ideas and wisdom.
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dave cake says:
For some reason, a lot of this article doesn't show up for me using Safari 3 as a browser (though it works fine with firefox). Same occurs with other articles on this blog.
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Inspiring and Useful! Except for the cheeky barb on executive directors. I'm a founding executive director – 18 years on the very real ground of our poor community in NYC and still running full steam (not to be confused w/hot flashes).
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Green4Good says:
Brilliant, and what a call to attention! As someone involved in NGOs for 15 years at all sorts of levels, wish a movement of activists on this same page could communicate and implement a cohesive agenda of collaboration. Hey, we all have dreams… Thanks for posting this!
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I believe that one day, all the children who have suffered the neglect, abuse, and assaults by their caregiver, will speak out loudly. I believe in miracles. I believe in truth. I have seen the lies.The Child Protection Services in all states have serious issues, but in Indiana, children and women are in the greatest danger and are ignored.
Governor of Indiana, Mitch Daniels, who campaigned to have an open door policy, fails and ignores to do so, regarding the crimes and negligence of Child Protection Services, now called Dept of Children, of which is a large money making business of human trafficking and literally defaming parents without regards for the Constitutional, Civil, or Human Rights.
Be cautious of what any Child Protection Agency says in any state, as what the Child Protections Agency, DCS of Indiana says and does, it not what is really happening, as they function in secrecy and conspire with each other to hide the truth. The compaign promise of Mitch Daniels, "I will have an open door policy regarding Child Protection Services". That is a laugh. When an agency of the government is given full reign without over sight, human trafficking, child laundrying business, and money laudrying, will become the only factor of the focus, not to protect. Mitch Daniels has failed to respond to many Indiana Citizens with his 'open door'. We, the citizens of Indiana and the United States know the truth of corruption, violation of Civil, Constitutional, and Human Rights, as we have be terrorized and victimized by the largest terrorist group in the world, The U.S. Child Protection Services, government agency.
How can democracy be upheld in the United States of America, when complaints against judges are reviewed by their own friend peers, Child Protection Services, investigated by their own department agency, or the Attorney General for the state to be the legal counsel for all government agencies, to deliberately ignore the crimes the state workers commit against citizens?
Who is legal counsel for the citizens?
We pay for the government to function, and we have to pay again with a private attorney to have our rights up-held!! In Indiana, the political figures function on their own agenda, not the needs of the citizens. Just like the attorney for Child Protection Services, as he threatens all who attempt to recite the laws, statutes, Civil, Constitutional, and Human Rights. When citizens inquire for information regarding the use of funds and the amount of federal re-inbursement given to the government agency, CPS, they refuse to honor the Freedom of Information Act and Open Access Indiana.
When citizens file complaints to the federal government, the feds just send a letter that they can not do anything, so take the complaints back to the state officials that are committing the crimes and victimization. Have we lost all our rights in the United States?
The fact that women and children are in much "lack of" protection in the United States, and ignored when cries for help is screamed out. I find it hard to believe, Republican President Bush, cares anymore for the victimizaiton of women and children in Indiana or elsewhere in the nation, as it IS the government agency that is allowed to perform in the horrific manner of harming more children than helping, defaming and financially burdening innocent parents, and allowing the states to use Magic words, to de-fraud the federal government pockets.
The Governor of Indiana, Mitch Daniels: After many letters, calls, and walk in visits to the State House, our Governor, Mitch Daniels, refuses to listen and failed to build that "Open door policy" he stated as a promise during his campaign. Indiana Representative, Evan Bayh, stated the "Governor is ultimately responsible for the actions or lack of actions of CPS". Two employees under Mitch Daniels, were very well aware of what was happening to us and still happening to many others. Neither seem to be concerned. Though, Scott Zarazee, did write 2 years ago, he would look into the concern, but nothing more done or said.
The Attorney General, Steve Carter' office response: …"the Attorney General acts as legal counsel for the State of Indiana . We do not have jurisdiction in issues such as yours." This means, the Attorney General will do nothing to protect the citizens, parents, or children! It is okay for Dept of Children to commit perjury and falsification of court records. It is not about protection, it is about getting children in the system to waste money. Also, this also means, that a large hospital can overdose infants, doctors can refuse a patient the right to choose their own trusted doctor, CPS can allow an overdose of medication to be administered, that is highly neurotoxin and nephrotoxin to a 5 day old infant, and allow the hospital staff to refuse to identify who they were. This is the same response from the Indiana Health Department. "There was not enough documentation in the medical record to make a judgment". Well, duh, like the staff and doctors are going to document what they did? Furthermore, the response from the Indiana Attorney General is no surprise, as the Attorney Generals Office will always deny claims against CPS, as the Attorney General will protect CPS, regardless of the cries. Unfortunately, citizens believe the falsehood regarding the Attorney General protects Indiana citizens. Quite similar, as citizens also believe the facade that CPS actually "protects" children or "preserves" families! Are we, the citizens of Indiana , so naive that we are simply paying an enormous amount of taxes without concern for any true necessary services to be rendered from our political leaders?
The Attorney General Inspector, David Thomas, response: "" .. Do as you are told … or loose…" He has known for over 14 years of the CPS crimes done to children, parents, and the mockery of the judicial system, but he ignores the crimes done by CPS. This means, the Attorney General Inspector is aware of the crimes and victimization of innocent citizens and harm to children, but no investigation will take place, citizens have no rights. But, isn't't investigation his job? He does get paid, right? For what?
The Head of Department of Children Services, James Payne, response: ""… I concur with the agency's action in this matter." This means that even though the CPS workers committed perjury, falsification of court records, and gave an infant to a man, not known to be the father, for him the bash in her head, beat her fragile body, then DCF staff refuse medical treatment, and then the staff to hand walk the abuser into court, and refuse to tell the judge of his cocaine, and THC use, Bi-polar and Manic Depression, multiple arrests for battery, theft, robbery, and more. Even though this agency knew their allegations were all false, they still say they "substantiated" the allegations. By what you may ask. By perjury and falsification of documentation, of the social workers and case managers, employees paid for by the state. Doesn't substantiated mean valid factual evidence? Not when it comes to CPS. They are not held accountable or responsible for the lives of any child. They willingly defamed an innocent mother, kept her new born child from her for 7 months, then CPS acted like nothing happened. This is NOT an isolated case, this is the norm. Child Protection Service staff are liars.
The Indiana Ethics Office: "We have received your complaints against FSSA and/or DCS. The Investigator General has already reviewed your complaint and determined that neither the Inspector General nor the Ethics Commission has jurisdiction over this case. Thank you for contacting us,…." This means that there is not one person in the state that will help a parent or child that is victimized by Child Protection Services. Not one. Not your Federal, State, or Local Representative, nor your City Council, Prosecutor, Police, not one person is willing to step in to stop the crimes of CPS toward innocent parents, children, and families as a whole. The Marion County Prosecutors office: " ….. We cannot help … our hands are tied….." , REFUSED TO ALLOW THE VICTIM TO FILE AGAINST HER ATTACKER, REFUSED TO ALLOW A PROTECTIVE ORDER TO BE SERVED. This means that regardless of the crimes of the agency, CPS and their affiliates, their crimes go un-punished. They walk about as a god.
The former Director of Prevent Child Abuse Indiana, Andie Marshall, response: "……..we advocate for systems that protect and support children. It is not an excuse but the sad reality is that Indiana has for too long allocated too little to meet the growing needs of families and people in stressful situations. We continually work to advocate for changes….(Editorial Indianapolis Indiana Star, by Tim Evans)….. It was about the children under state' care. Not parents. It was the total of children under state' care each year with a 25-30% of the annual total of children under the state' care to die at the hands under the state providers, state fosters, ect…..and has been for over the past decade…" Over the past decade 25-30% of the annual total of children under the state' care, DIE at the hands under the state!!! Doesn't't this scare anyone? This means that even though it is known children are seriously abused and killed at the hands of strangers, placed into harms way by the care of this agency, CPS, which is costing Indiana tax payers over 1 billion dollars a year, but they still get paid to cause more harm to our innocent and precious children!!! Why not pump gas into a tank with a large hole in it, the effectiveness would be the same.
The State Representative for my area; David Frizzell response: There was no response given to us as we sent hundreds of letters to all government officials begging for help from 4/20/05 through 12/05. No responses in return. But when we noted that the Attorney General does no more than to claim and deny any fault regarding the actions of all government agencies, big businesses, or big political supporters, David Frizzell responded 06/19/07 when I commented against Steve Carter' office, IAG, quickly saying: "…… I am making serious accusations….." So, the life of a child or the defaming hardship of an innocent young woman is unworthy to be concerned about and not important enough to respond to the constituent, but the statement of concern regarding the Attorney General' lack of concern or lack of action of the harm being done to the citizens by government, Big businesses, and Big political supporters, are worthy to immediately respond to safeguard his fellow politician?
So, who is our elected officials to be the stewardship of service too? It is not, the citizens, at least, not in Indiana. NOW I AM IMFORMED THAT ALL THE CLAIMS MADE TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WILL BE DENIED BY AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, BUT THE INVESTIGATION IS NOT COMPLETED AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN INFORMED THE CASES WHERE CLOSED AND DENIED. BUT THIS IS THE WAY STEVE CARTER' OFFICE RUNS, IT DENIES AND CLOSES CASES WITHOUT ANY INVESTIGATIONS, AS ONLY TO PROTECT GOVERNMENT, BIG BUSINESSES, AND BIG CAMPAIGN DONATORS, NOT THE PEOPLE!!!
The Villages, who locate foster homes for the children CPS snatch from their homes, makes a financial fortune from the corruption of Child Protection Services. The Villages are finding foster homes for children that most likely had safe homes, but due to the ability to make false reports by CPS without any question for validity, children are forced to suffer, parents lives come to an end with a broken heart, destroyed family, publicly defamed, and forced to loose every penny they have or ever will have, in attempt to get back their children. Once children are removed from their parents, by CPS, chances are they are seriously abused or killed before they reach the age of 18 years old.
Parents loose parental rights without a fair legal hearing. Hearsay is all that is used. Regardless of the facts, the truth, any and all evidence a parent has, the judge ignores the information, and the hearsay is rubber stamped as valid, false claims are documented as substantiated without evidence, and goodbye children!! Please, please, Don't laugh, this is a reality. Governor, Mitch Daniels, Attorney Generals Office, Steve Carter, Attorney Generals Investigator, David Thomas, Head of Department of Children, James Payne, Indiana State Police, Marion County Prosecutor, Carl Brizzi, Local Police, and both CPS Attorneys and judges, are all aware of the fraudulent criminal actions of social workers and case managers, of CPS. However, it appears that no one has the integrity or ethical morals to do anything about it.
How many babies are stolen all over the state by a government agency, called CPS, that is no more than an agency that claims to "protect", but they make large amounts of money from the tax payers and the federal bonuses and grants? {Human Marketing & Human Trafficking} How many children are alienated from the parents and siblings without true cause? The greatest risk factors for children to be removed from their home has nothing to do with abuse or neglect, as single women, low income, battered and abused, or uneducated, are the targets to loose their children.
The Constitution is supposed to protect us. Our elected Politicians are supposed to support the written law, protect the citizens, and both listen and act up the concerns and needs of the people!! How corrupt can a state be? The Federal Government ignores the complaints and request complaints to be re-submitted to the people of the state who are committing the crimes and violations.
The rights of citizens are stomped on when CPS states, "Sign this paper or you will never see your child again". Or when a doctor forces un-necessary, very expensive, and very harmful medications, to an infant, with the aide of CPS placing the infant under state care without a court order, just because the mother wants to request her own, well know and trusted Pediatrician, to take over the health care needs of her infant. Many can testify to this bulling tactic.
Many children are removed from their parents and siblings, not because they needed to be protected, but because, the state needs children in the system to make a federal re-reimbursement profit. Doesn't this make anyone sick? Does it surprise anyone that none of our government officials believe the issue of children wrongfully removed from their home to be placed into harms way or for the state workers to lie and make a mockery of the courts, is worthy to be dealt with in a more vigorous manner? Indiana ' political official are more concerned for their political party issues, not the citizens!! It is the money, power, control to gain more money, at the expense of family unity and the children's well-being. How many citizens are being abused by our own government? MILLIONS!!
Who can or will investigate? NO ONE IN OUR OWN GOVERNMENT FROM THE GOVERNOR DOWN TO THE POLICE Detective or Investigators! Child Protection Services, walk as a god, with disregard to all laws.
For it is written: "Lord, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilts prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear: To judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress" Psalm 10:17 – 18.
Do not the words, "One nation, under God, indefensible, with liberty, and justice for all", mean anything? Does it? What liberty, what justice, what rights in the Constitution, does CPS follow, honor, cherish, or give respect to? NONE! Again, the new age Hitler Dictatorship of CPS is real and stealing the rights of parents to be parents and children to bear the right to have heritage of their own family. What a shame, a criminal act towards all citizens in this state of Indiana , and of the nation!! We do not need more state workers in Indiana .
We need state workers that know the difference from truth and fiction, honesty and perjury, and skilled with the ability to assess all situations objectively rather than personally biased values to project their own subjective issues onto the families encountered. We need judges that have the desire to be involved with the families and the issues that can be managed as a family unit, to ask for evidence rather than accepting hearsay, and if the case has no basis, the judge should drop the case immediately! When a young mother fled an abusive man, to protect herself and infant from domestic abuse, CPS made sure the abuser could abuse the infant, and he did, CPS handed the infant to the man without any proof of being the father, allowed he to bash her skull in, then CPS workers, refused medical treatment for the infant.
Many pleads and begging for help at the Prosecutor's Office were made, in person many times, phone calls, black and white evidence handed, 911 calls, and letters, to no avail, as Myron Hockman, Community Prosecutor, Linda Majors, Stacy Hawk, Lisa Borges, then Chief of Staff for Prosecutor' Office, refused to care, listen or act. Myron Hockman, laughed at the 911 tape of the mother being battered, and the courts refused to serve a protective order filed by an attorney, 11/08/05. "Shatter the Silence" is ignored by the political figures in the state of Indiana , as women and children are meaningless. (Keep in mind this young woman fled with infant for safety from the abuse of this man that has been in mental institutional care, leaving AMA, ect. and every agency in the state of Indiana ignored the woman's cry for protection, safety, and having her right to be heard. But in Indiana, women and children have no rights, and every agency that is to help the vicitm, only victimized the victim over and over again. What kind of emotional well-being does anyone think this woman could be in??? No where to go, no one to listen, no one in Indiana felt it important enough to lift a finger. From Mitch Daniels, Governor, to Carl Brizzi, Marion Co. Prosecutor. ) Is this an isolated case? No, this is the norm, in Indiana. Just what do any government workers do for the people in Indiana ? We pay for what? Victimization, ignored, lied to, terrorized, and oppressed. Why do we even have an election? Campaign promises are lies.
Perpetrators of Maltreatment is: Child Protection "Predator" Services CPS commits un-punished crimes against innocent parents and children and destroy families for Federal $$$Funds
Physical Abuse – 59 by parents 160 by CPS
Sexual Abuse – 13 by parents 112 by CPS
Neglect – 241 by parents 410 by CPS
Medical Neglect – 12 by parents 14 by CPS
Fatalities – 1.5 by parents 6.4 by CPS
FACT: Number of Cases per 100,000 children in the United States . These numbers come from The National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect (NCCAN) in Washington .
One in four children, under state care WILL die.
This is an issue all over the nation!!!!
For it is written: "Woe to those who make unjust laws, and those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people." Isaiah 10:1
I am a child of God, wife for 29 years to my high school sweetheart, mother of three grown children, grandmother of 4 precious children, and a Registered Nurse, BSN, a professional woman, that has witnessed how Methodist Hospital violated the right of a mother to choose her own well known and trusted doctor, as a Methodist doctor, who refused to sign off and give the case to the parent's selected doctor, and directed the violation of activity toward the patient, and all other hospital staff refused to allow the patient a Patient Advocate, professionals re-wrote the medical chart, forced the mother to sign a waiver for a second opinion on the legal document of Methodist Hospital as mother was threatened to never see her baby again it she refused to sign, forced the mother to also sign a CHINS paper for CPS, overdosed a 5 day old infant with a highly toxic medications without any rationale, signs or symptoms to pursue to do so, and CPS staff defamed an innocent mother, by perjury, falsification of documentation, and violating their own policies and procedures. CPS continued to hand an infant to a man that bashed in her skull concave, but the CPS workers refused to allow the infant medical care. My family' life and belief with NEVER be the same. This is how women and children are treated in Indiana . May God help us all who suffer? A lengthy horrific 911 tape of my daughter being attacked in her own car, as the man lounged through the driver' window, I sat paralyzed in the passenger' seat. The prosecutor's office, laughed. Pretend this is your daughter on the 911 tape, you sit in the passenger' seat, you know the man attacking your daughter is high on cocaine, you have in hand a court order to pick up the 10 month old baby girl, who is sitting in the man' back seat of his car, as his car is running, driver door open, parked in the middle of the street, the police refuse to honor the court order, allow the man to leave with the infant, and the prosecutor's office laughs at the 911 tape, and courts refused to serve a protective order. How you would feel? What would you do? The state of Indiana, especially, Marion County, allows this to happen to innocent women and children. This is a small amount of hell, we have suffered, and nothing was or is done. Women and children mean nothing in Indiana. How can the US help stop the citizens from being harmed in Iraq or teach the leaders in Iraq to care for their citizens, when innocent women and children are being victimized right here in the US, by our own government, and our elected officials ignore the issues? Since the government promoted bonuses to each state for adoptions, more and more children are being "stolen" from their loving and safe homes, CPS workers will commit perjury to use the "Magic Words" just to gain custody of a child without allowing parents due process, to be sold.
When did Indiana become a state of dictatorship? Who made Child Protection Agency above the Constitutional, Human, and Civil Rights in America?
*** Children's Bureau Express Nov 2004 http://cbexpress.acf.hhs.gov HHS Awards Adoption Bonuses to States On October 14, 2004, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Tommy G. Thompson announced the awarding of $17,896,000 in adoption bonuses to 31 States and Puerto Rico. The funding comes from the Adoption Incentives Program and is given to States that were successful in increasing the number of adoptions from the public child welfare system over the number of adoptions in 2002. ….The threshold to receive incentives has been reset based on the number of adoptions in FY 2002, making States that reached their highest number of adoptions in the earlier years of the program more likely to qualify for a bonus. …" (THIS IS WHEN THE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF CHILDREN BEGAN TO BE REMOVED BY MERE FALSE ALLEGATIONS, parents defamed, families destroyed, AND CHILDREN SOLD LIKE CATTLE!)
Children, do not have to be abused, raped, or mistreated, or murdered, please, their voices must be heard!!!! Many children are being abused under state care, parents are being defamed, and families are being destroyed, needlessly. This must stop!! Please, help our leaders to see what is happening to the people they have been blessed by God, to serve for His Sake! My heart is full of sorrow, like never felt before, and tears flow without dryness near. Precious, innocent, unborn children, are slaughtered, not be cave men, but be educated professionals, and our leaders, turn their heads of the blood shed.
May the suffering and blood of every child, parent, and entire families, be on the hands of every politicial figure that has turned away to ignore the suffering of the cries of the US citizens. They all need our prayer for mercy to be given to them.
I am a professional woman that has witnessed first hand the lies and crimes of CPS and how there is no where to go for protection of this government agency that walks as a god, but does evil to destroy the innocent. Citizens have no avenue for protection against this government agency that causes more harm than good, and "protection" is the least of the motivation, as money is the controlling factor. Interesting web page of victimized parents who have choosen to speak the truth of the crimes of the US government agency, Child Protection Services, and the violation of Human Rights, and the US Constitution.
http://www.honkforkids.com or http://www.honkforkids.com/videoindex.htm
Thank you for reading this, I sincerely mean every word written from the depths of my heart and soul, shall I continue to pray for the Hand of God to reveal the truth about the crimes, of Child Protection Services.
The truth of what is happening is that CPS violates the rights of all citizens, not held accountable, responsible, or punished, and ignore and fail to 'protect'. Don't let this happen to your citizens, please.
Just one testimony for the millions of citizens that is being terrorized by their own county. Didn't the US sign a treaty to up-hold the Human Rights, at the United Nations? Well, they lied about that too! Be cautious regarding what this government agency says, as they lie.
Our family will never be the same, and our faith of what true liberty, justice, and democracy, stood for, has been forever stomped to non-existence.
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Space Heater says:
Too long and not funny.
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Alvin and the Chipmunks launch iMunks.com
2007 Re-Mixed

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


Margaret River Winery & Brewery Tours are a unique 'must do' in the Margare River region! Enjoy 40 tastings of Margaret River Wines Boutique Beers and Wild Foods! Daily10am to 5pm! Bushtucker CaveCanoe tours from Surfers beach are a fun day of adventure! Daily 10am to 2pm on the crystal Margaret River! Tours depart daily at 10am and offer a see more do more taste more approach! These State Awarded Tours, have been locally owned and operated since 1990. The business is run by Helen Lee, the inaugural Best Tour Guide in Western Australia, 1999.
Bushtucker Tours offers three exceptional tours of the Margaret River region. From quiet paddling down the majestic Margaret River to Wine and Beer tasting, with Wildfoods hand made in Margaret River.
River, Winery & Brewery and Deluxe Tours all operate Daily 10am!
Tours can be altered to suit all guests needs and requirements to make their trip to Margaret River even more memorable.
Our tours run, all year, daily!
Ask about our Maxi Deal Mondays!
Only $85 per person for the whole day all day! (conditions apply).
Also if you do both tours get $40 off per couple for the second tour!
Family deal! $220 for 2 adults, up to 3 children!
Telstra Innovative Business Award! Winner three State Tourism Awards 1996 and 1999, 2002.
Best Tour Guide Western Australia.
Best Heritage and Cultural Tour Western Australia.
Best Tour guide 2007, Gold award.
After a sold-out opening show COMEDY@SETTLERS returns this Thursday!
Vulture Culture, the organisers of Rottofest and some of Perth's best Stand-Up Comedy rooms are bringing the best International, National and local acts to Margaret River for a special showcase of laugh out loud Comedy.
With a career that has spanned three decades, Garry has worked in all facets of show business, Television, Radio, Movies, Voice-over and is one of the most sort after corporate comedians both nationally and internationally.
Tickets $10 + b/f or $15 at the door. Seated show …get in quick as seating is limited!
Lake Cave is, to put it simply, a mirrored wonderland. Home to the "suspended table" which weighs several tonnes and is one of the only formations of its kind in the world, Lake is the most active cave in the south west. It is the only cave on the Leeuwin-Naturaliste Ridge that has a permanent lake. Entry access is through a spectacular doline – a large hole in the earth's surface. It is the deepest of the three show caves run by the Augusta Margaret River Tourism Association. It is home to Caveworks, a world-class eco interpretative centre designed to help you learn about the formation and history of caves within the region, throughout Australia and around the world.
Leeuwin Estate, one of the founding wineries of the now famous Margaret River district, consistently produces wines that rank with the world's finest.
In 1972, following an extensive search for the area most suitable to produce the best varietal wines in Australia, legendary American winemaker, Robert Mondavi, identified the future site of the Leeuwin vineyard.
Originally a cattle farm, Leeuwin Estate evolved, under the direction of Denis and Tricia Horgan, with Robert Mondavi acting as consultant and mentor.
A nursery was planted in 1974 and the initial vineyards were deep-ploughed, deep-ripped, emptied of stone, planned, pegged, measured, marked and eventually planted by hand over a five year period from 1975.
Featuring state-of-the art facilities, the winery building was opened in 1978, celebrating with a trial vintage. Leeuwin enjoyed its first commercial vintage in 1979, and was thrust into the international spotlight when Decanter Magazine gave its highest recommendation to the 1980 "Art Series" Chardonnay in an international blind tasting.
Maintaining a team of highly skilled and dedicated winemakers, and now under the direction of two generations of the founding family, Leeuwin now exports to over 30 countries.
CinéfestOZ has unveiled its biggest program to date with more than 60 films on offer at this year's festival, which starts on August 20th.
The 2014 program will feature 14 Australian, 10 French and one "Aussies Abroad" feature-length films, 13 community screenings and 29 short films over the five day event in the South West of Western Australia.
Among the list of Australian films are the six finalists for CinéfestOZ's inaugural $100,000 Film Prize – Felony, Son of a Gun, The Reckoning, The Waler: Australia's Great War Horse and MIFF@CinéfestOZ films My Mistress and Paper Planes.
Easing SW swell with E/NE tending N/NE winds.
Moderate SW swell with W'ly tending S/SE winds.
Large increase in W/SW groundswell through the afternoon with E/NE tending variable winds.
Margaret River Farmers' Market • Now Every Saturday! • Think Seasonal, Think Fresh, Think Local!
At the Shire Building Grounds, 41 Wallcliffe Road, Margaret River.


The City of Gwangju will reduce the number of intra-city buses during the summer vacation period from next Monday, July 23rd to August 19th.
119 buses on 66 routes will be taken out of operation to save energy and money. The city expects to reserve some 1.4 billion won by the reduction.
Travel intervals will be extended by 1 to 9 minutes on mainlines and 5 to 15 minutes on branch lines.
Temporary bus schedules are available on the city's website.
A city official said on Thursday that the decision was made based on the usual drop in bus users during the vacation period and the city will minimize inconveniences for bus users by concentrating buses in peak commute hours.
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For the National Science Foundation CAREER program, a funding opportunity from NSF for un-tenured assistant professors.
At this workshop faculty mentors (past awardees of NSF CAREER grants) and Contract and Grant specialists from the Office of Sponsored Research present information on the NSF CAREER program. This includes their experience with this program relevant to proposal development, submission, and review. Time is also provided for networking with the mentors.
Eligible junior faculty who are interested in finding out about the CAREER program at NSF are invited to participate along with faculty mentors.


text:
"This I beleive"
By GMichael1230,
August 10, 2007 in DCI (All) Corps Show & Event Reviews
prodigal bari 0
prodigal bari
When a review contains personal elements that have nothing to do with the actual thing they are reviewing (if you hate the narration you get it, if you like it you're drinking kool-aid. . .paraphrasing) then you invite some criticism back. If you don't like it, hit that ignore button.
As opposed to rebutting you?
LAMystreaux 3 posts
alto92 2 posts
deftguy 2 posts
prodigal bari 1 post
euponitone 270
euponitone
Your Drum Corps Experience:Cadets 2003, 2005, 2006
Your Favorite All Time Corps Performance (Any):Cadets 2000, SCV 89- sorry to be predictable :)
Location:Downingtown, PA
either way would be fine :P
alto92 10
alto92
What a shame Cadets have to have a disclaimer "Once you get past that....." Its uttered by every fan, used as a tool of reason by every "honk" ,and needed as a set-up for the average fan to "get it". ThankGod, in the "real world" the majority get it, and realize the narration is a major design flaw, isnt fun, groundbreaking, or inovative, and is just plain silly, a distraction, a nuisance and yet another cross to bear for those presenting this show. Its what you will take away the most from this show, and thats just sad as there is a geat show behind it.
George Hopkins, the controversy, the outcome, I will not comment. Holy crowd not happy, booing en masse, louder and more vocal than any other time ever in the history of me and DCI (going back to 1979) Was it right ? was it wrong ? was it all on Hopkins ??
Three things...
First, thanks for the review. I was there and agreed with most of your points.
Second, before the Cadets went on the hashes were barely there from 30 to 30. Sure, you can probably get by, but the Cavies were dirty...could this have contributed at least a little bit to that? I don't blame Hopkins at all for his decision, and I think the audience vociferously voicing its displeasure on the matter in the form of booing the Cadets was pretty messed up, particularly noting some Div II kids associated with a closely competing corps.
Third, I couldn't disagree more when you say the narration isn't innovative. Sure I have limited experience in corps, but having been to 11 years worth of shows now, I can honestly say that the narration brings the audience into the show IN A DIFFERENT WAY more than any other way I've seen. I guess the issue comes down to what you think drum corps is or should be, but forgetting all that and watching a show for what it is and not what its not or should be, I found that it very literally created a dialog between corps and audience. Language makes people react, and using it to stir emotion is probably intended.
Were Cadets my fav show of the night? Nope. That'd go to Crown or SCV. But I appreciate the corps that get booed or yelled at because they go against the grain, and I think drum corps needs that. So much so that I stood in line with my SCV jacket and bought a Cadets hat. Much respect from this alum...
Edited August 10, 2007 by alto92
LAMystreaux 2
LAMystreaux
Your Drum Corps Experience:None. . .just a fan.
Your Favorite Corps:Cadets 98, 2000, and 2007.
Your Favorite All Time Corps Performance (Any):Cadets 98 Finals
Location:Leesville, LA
Interests:I am a band director in the state of LA.
You can go for that also. Obviously it matters not to me. But please don't tell me I don't have the right to criticize or question things.
George 0
wow - I think I disagree with practically every point the OP made
that may be a first!
still - thanks for taking the time to do the review
pags 15
pags
Your Favorite Corps:Blue Devils, Cadets, Carolina Crown
Your Favorite All Time Corps Performance (Any):Blue Devils 2014
Your Favorite Drum Corps Season:1995, 2014
Location:Lewisville, TX
George? Disagree with a point of view that doesn't favor The Cadets??? NAAAWWWWW!!!!!
deftguy 101
deftguy
Couple of things. . .
Completely agree on Academy.
Cadets-you could have found a better way to compare those who are cool with the narration in the show and those who aren't. But, far be it from me to expect anything more from you than put downs.
Devils-Will be interesting tonight if they will stay on top, and if the crowd acts like idiots again when and if they don't.
This is G's review, not yours. He expressed what he thought about the Cadets in his own words. If this was your review, then you would have gotten a chance to express YOUR views in your own words. If you didn't like what he said, then ignore it. He doesn't need to be critisized because he didn't express himself as you would. Everyone is different, uses different expressions to express themselves.
Should you be critisized for saying the crowd was acting like idiots?
Narration is not innovative at all. It has been used by marching bands for years, which is why drum corps fans have such an negative reation to its overuse. While I hate any form of the amped voice in a drum corps show, I realize that drum corps is becoming marching band and narration is going nowhere(I think it will be used more and more in the future). But to say its innovative, ahhhhhh no!
BklynMario 23
BklynMario
DCP Rookie
Your Drum Corps Experience:OLMC(Pepe's corps), Skyliners, Our Lady of Loretto, Cabs. Write for Masters of the Marching Arts mag, Heritage mag, contributor DCW.
Your Favorite Corps:Loretto(Of course!) Cabs, Sky
Your Favorite All Time Corps Performance (Any):Cabs, Miami, AL, 1963
Your Favorite Drum Corps Season:Every!
Location:Fords, NJ
Interests: Let me see...drum corps, writing, film, reading, and....
What a shame Cadets have to have a disclaimer "Once you goguset past that....." Its uttered by eery fan, used as a tool of reason by ever "honk" ,and needed as a set-up for the average fan to "get it". ThankGod, in the "real world" the majority get it, and realize the narration is a major design flaw, isnt fun, groundbreaking, or inovative, and is just plain silly, a distraction, a nuisance and yet another cross to bear for those presenting this show. Its what you will take away the most from this show, and thats just sad as there is a geat show behind it.
George Hopkins, the controversy, the outcome, I will not comment. Holy crowd not happy, booing en masse, louder and more vocal than any other time ever in the history of me and DCI (going back to 1979) Was it right ? was it wrong ? was it all on Hopkins ?? GO BD !
~G~
No real argument....however, from a somewhat simplistic point of view, it's analogous to saying that Atlanta has a "great" team, except for their terrible bullpen. In either context, (IMVHO, of course!) it just isn't so.
As for BD, I don't especially love what they're doing, but they do it so *%#@^ well. In fact, I've decided that when I'm resurrected, I will devote my entire life to becoming an incredibly accomplished horn(not trumpet)player, and become a star soloist with BD. I fully realize that this might mean abandoning my Brooklyn, Italian-American heritage in exchange for California tall, blonde, blue eyed-ness, but I think that it will be worth it...........mario
It's new to the activity and is being received as such. The whole notion about drum corps being SO different from marching band on the level of on-the-field-product and that this is a recent trend due to the G/Bb debate, amps, and narration, I think is a bit overstated. The two have gone hand in hand for a few decades now, with the main differences lying in things that have little to do with an audience member's perspective (other than obvious things like instrumentation). There are HUGE differences in approach to rehearsals and overall educational philosophies, but I attribute that to the age group and the competitive nature of drum corps, where as the focus in high school SHOULD BE music education. Of course there are other differences, such as show design due to a more physically and musically able membership, but that's a different discussion.
I think the fact that a drum corps audience is largely opposed to its use is due to the fact that is IS new to the activity, and corps are just now figuring out how to use it - therefore the quality of narration and its use is in its infantile stages. Like it or not, it IS innovative, even if marching bands have been using it for years: drum corps have always done things at a different level than marching bands. Here, the main difference between band and corps is the disposition of the audience.
Corps is what it is. For me, I saw plenty of fantastic shows with narration, and plenty of fantastic shows without. I, for one, welcome variety.


text:
NASA EagleWorks futuristic EM Drive vehicles can reach moon's surface within 4 hours
NASA is constantly pushing the envelope when it comes to changing people's perceptions of space and space travel. That's why it wouldn't be a surprise to anyone if NASA announced today that they found an improved method of space travel that would make it safer, faster, and more human-friendly. The benefits would be resounding, and virtually all of humanity would benefit from such a technology. That's where EM Drive comes into the equation.
This modified method of space travel would put older, and traditional methods of technology in the rearview mirror, and give entities like NASA the ability to truly experience space travel, as it should be at this stage.
EM Drive is what many scientists and researchers believe is at the absolute fringe of possibility, in terms of making it work. However, the teams involved have proven with ease that it's entirely possible. The notion of bringing technology like this, that doesn't use traditional propulsion methods, is entirely possible and something that will actually help change the way space aviation is not only executed but how its built and designed.
The first thing that should be noted is that EM Drive doesn't coincide with traditional methods of propulsion. Specifically, it doesn't align with Newton's law, which is somewhat surprising given the fact that it's the fundamental building block of basic travel. Essentially, that is to say that if you use energy to push in one direction, you'll move the other direction. However, this method of propulsion bounces molecules around a chamber that ultimately end in the same result. Tests have been conducted on this method, and it has been proven effective.
To give people an idea of just how much faster this would make space travel, they have to look no further than the moon. Specifically, it would take roughly 4 hours of travel time to actually arrive at the moon when coming from Earth. The travel time that this type of method would reduce is simply something that cannot be spoken highly enough of. It will reduce the length of travel, cost, and even the human cost for those who decide to travel like this.
Organizations like NASA need to focus on these types of methods of travel, simply given the fact that NASA is facing increasing funding issues. Correcting these issues with more efficient methods of travel will prove not only to be cost-effective, but also "effective," from top-to-bottom. This is something that will definitely see more energy and more fight from the science and space aviation community, as they pursue more effective ways to learn about outer space.
SOURCENASA Spaceflight
Ingolf Stern 04/05/2015 at 5:45 PM
what the hell are you talking about? do you imagine they would let that genie out of the bottle and kill the petro-dollar cycle? lame. go back to work on your novel.
Dave Acklam 04/05/2015 at 5:51 PM
They are talking about a means of moving spaceships, not an energy source.
The notion that there is some sort of conspiracy keeping oil as our primary energy source on earth is flat-out insane… It's not a conspiracy, it's just that nothing else (beyond nuclear and hydroelectric) work, and the same morons who want to ditch oil hate those 2 alternatives too….
Carlos Long 04/05/2015 at 8:05 PM
There is a "conspiracy" concerning fossil fuels because there is no profit margin in renewable energy sources like solar, fusion, hydro etc.
The status quo like the Koch Bros wouldn't spend 350 million a year to sustain their political agenda if they wanted us to exploit alternate technologies.
Charliemopps 10/05/2015 at 1:13 PM
Right, because the Koch brothers would be totally uninterested in finding a way to stop paying for oil extraction. No overhead at all? That sounds terrible!
There is no profit margin in solar & wind because they do not actually work as well as other sources… This is why massive government subsidies are required to get people to use them.
Everything else is tremendously profitable, but also hated by the green luddites who want to drag us back to 1899 technologically in the name of their precious earth-goddess…
Sorry, no conspiracy there… Just a bunch of fanatics trying to foist junk technology & a massively lowered standard of living on the rest of us…
Screw them & their primitive neo-pagan religion…
Sean Cleary 04/05/2015 at 5:52 PM
Space travel right now doesn't use fossil based fuels and the new drive only works in a vacuum.
actually, it doesn't work at all. The engineers involved are all free energy cooks and this isn't even a Nasa project.
Wall 04/05/2015 at 6:57 PM
No, it works. Nasa, the chinese, and several independent scientists have all tested it. Nasa even tested it in a vacuum. It doesn't violate newtons law, it actually spits out energy to move forward instead of mass, in the form of "virtual particals". In other words, it moves by distorting space… That is why everyone is so excited about it.
There is no reason why this technology would not work. This is not a violation of the known laws of physics and electromagnetism is one of the 4 forces of nature that we have exploited for the past 250 years.
The estimates of velocity are dramatically overstated and I'm sure you realize this article is quoting a speed of 60,000 miles per hour.
You are not getting very far in this vast solar system much less this galaxy or universe at a snails pace!
Charliemopps 04/05/2015 at 11:09 PM
Yes, it does violate the laws of physics. The device is basically a reflection chamber with strange geometry. According to the authors the radiation never leaves the chamber. Energy supposedly bounces off one side of the chamber "harder" than it does the other side. So the device moves in the direction its pointed as a result. This would be equivalent to you moving a spaceship by throwing a baseball against the inside wall. If such a thing were possible it means the universe has an Aether, which was proven impossible over 100 years ago.
Moron! We have no evidence of any violation of the laws of physics in any locations in space and for all of time. This is not a violation of the laws of physics and we have never seen evidence of a violation in the history of the universe.
If you don't know anything about physics, don't make comments that prove your ignorance.
You've no idea what you're talking about. Stop making a fool of yourself. You're not even making complete sentences. It says that it defies the laws of physics in the FIRST paragraph of the original article on NasaSpaceflight. You can't have propulsion without propellent. You either need to be throwing mater or energy out the back of the device. According to the authors this device does neither. Basic physics says that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Where is the reaction in this device? If it works as they say it does, the laws of physics have to be re-written and all of our science is out the window.
You have proven that you know absolutely nothing about sentence construction, linguistics, punctuation and your remarks show you have no understanding of physics.
A violation of a fundamental law of physics has never been detected and proof of a breach would be world news.
The laws of physics that underpin our understanding of the universe allow us to describe the universe as we know it. Any breach of these tenets would cause a cascade effect changing our understanding of our reality.
This has not happened and it never will!
Read up on physics 101 so that you come to understand that just like there is no "god", there are no violations of the fundamental laws of nature!
You are a fucking moron. Get your facts straight! I stated that Em drive is not a violation of the laws of physics and therefore can't be excluded from being valid.
You fucking poseurs tried to suggest that this was somehow some kind of violation of the laws of physics when in fact classical physics like the laws of motion are not relevant with quantum mechanical phenomena.
I have stated that this Em drive just like the Alcubrierre warp drive is fantasy and propaganda. Unlike the warp drive theory, we know how to manipulate electromagnetism whereas we have yet to detect nor exploit "negative energy.
If you knew anything about physics you would be able to discern these subtleties, but since you are a fucking moron, you fail to comprehend!
Charliemopps 14/05/2015 at 11:45 AM
NASA disagrees with you. You're nothing more than an angry crackpot.
PS: A "crackpot" would be the delusional idiot like yourself who subscribes to notions that are not supported by science and the laws of physics.
You have yet to refute a single statement of fact that I have posted on this thread. How could you anyway, you lack a basic understanding of physics!
Of course idiots like you "believed" that neutrinos exceeded the speed of light in the infamous Opera experiment a few years ago.
The difference between my level of comprehension and yours is the fact that I knew that particles of mass are prohibited from traveling through space at super luminal speeds and since neutrinos are predicted to be slightly massive, the experiment was flawed. Of course, an error in calibration proved that I was correct just like I am on target with this nonsense.
You have no understanding of the fundamental laws of nature and thus are a pawn in the propaganda game.
This experiment has not broken the laws of physics and we have no evidence of any breach in the history of mankind.
When we see a major news story conveyed around the world that our view of our fundamental laws has changed, as an empiricist I will change my view.
Charliemopps 13/05/2015 at 4:25 AM
WTF are you talking about? You're the one supporting the impossible EM drive. After even Nasa, the agency you're claiming tested this, says they didn't. Go back to your roswell convention.
Since you know nothing about physics you have no clue about what I have stated.
What I said was "Emdrive is not a violation of the laws of physics{" Quantum mechanics allows for electrons and photons to travel all paths, be in different locations at the same time, change to different quantum states and assume both particle and wave forms.
Electromagnetism is the movement of electrons and photons and these particles convey energy.
You clowns have mistaken the notions of classical physics like the laws of motion with the quantum mechanics of electromagnetism. Classical physics has no relevance to quantum mechanical phenomena
The Em drive is not prohibited by the law of physics, does not require the use of exotic matter and can't be excluded from viability.
A moron like you does not understand the distinction between "classical" laws of physics and "quantum mechanical" laws.
In the quantum realm all of your classical notions of motion, cause and effect and time are irrelevant. If you knew anything about the motion of particles and waves within the quantum realm then you would realize this. Since particles can take on all paths in travel, can be in multiple places at one time, and are not prohibited from reversing the arrow of time, no violations of quantum laws were exhibited in this experiment.
Electromagnetism is the movement of electrons and photons. These quantum particles exhibit both particle and wave behaviors and are subject to quantum physical laws, not your ignorant notion of "classical" laws of physics.
Like I said, this experiment does not violate what we know about the laws that describe the universe.
3 teams, NONE doing work for Nasa at the time, did 3 completely different tests and got 3 completely different results. All 3 teams are well known for making previously debunked "free-energy" claims, this is not their first rodeo. One guy, on one of the teams, Sonny White does work for NASA as an engineer during his day job, but the experiment was not part of a NASA project and he was doing it independently. Sonny White has made numerous claims in the past about this same sort of thing and all have later turned out to be false. NASA does now have the experiment in their hands, but haven't completed testing yet. The test results that have been gathered are only a tiny fraction outside of expected equipment error, even if they are accurate. And yes, it completely violates the laws of physics. COMPLETELY. If it does work, not only does modern physics have to be re-written but so does Newtonian physics. They might have well have claimed to have found ghosts or Sasquatches. Actually, I take that back, Sasquatches are more plausible than this claim.
every engine of space travel is constructed using fossil fuels and as such is a fossil-fueled engine.
So by your reasoning a nuclear plant is fossil fueled because the cement trucks that poured the concrete burned fossil fuels? Get a new brain with some common sense troll and an alarm clock so you can climb out from under your rock in a timely manner. Seriously, trolling comments 3 months after they're posted?
Robert 04/05/2015 at 6:44 PM
If true, this means we can travel at 1/240 the speed of light. We'd get to Alpha Centauri in 1000 years.
markp 04/05/2015 at 6:56 PM
Estimates for the EM drive are closer to 135 years to Alpha Centauri, actually.
Try a trip in 90,000 years based upon the speeds they are talking about!
You have no technology that would allow for speeds a tenth of the speed of light . At that speed you have no materials nor shields to withstand the ionized cosmic radiation.
At those speeds a one kilogram space rock conveys the kinetic energy of a 10 kiloton thermonuclear bomb.
This EM drive is a big a farce same as the Nasa notions of Alcubrierre's warp drive. We have no detection of negative energy, it is allowed by physics to exist for trillionths of a second and we have no mechanism to harness it!
The DS4G ion engine already exists and could do it easily. Power source is the only questionable factor. Strap one onto a nuclear reactor, put it inside an iron asteroid… viola. It would cost a fortune though.
Conveniently omitted any type of response to the reality of space debris and ionized cosmic radiation.
Proving of course that you know nothing about science.
I said put it in an iron asteroid you fucking moron.
Only a fucking idiot and a gullible poseur would suggest that the laws of physics have been violated.
You can't compete on positions of fact , don't understand physics and I have clowned you for all of the world to see.
Good luck with your notions of ion drives and work hard on your electromagnetic shields for your Starship Enterprise.
Light travels at 186,000 miles per second and this technology looks like 60,000 miles per second (237,000 / 4 hours = 59,250 miles per hour)
How is that 240th the speed of light? Where can you even get within this solar system at such pedestrian speeds?
237,000 miles traveled in 4 hours is 59,250 miles per hour. The nearest star is 4.21 light years away. At those speeds it would only take 90,000 years to there.
This is in no way a violation of the laws of physics and even traveling at the speed of light would not allow us to venture very far into our own galaxy much less other galaxies.
I'm trying to determine why NASA is sending out this propaganda on EM drives that are not very fast and Alcubriere Warp Drives that they claim are possible yet require "NEGATIVE ENERGY" a substance that we have yet to observe and a substance that the laws of physics don't allow to exist but for picoseconds of time.
Those of us who understand the underlying physics are laughing out loud that many of you subscribe to such nonsensical notions.
I know that NASA needs some positive exposure but this is not the way to achieve it.
Rico 04/05/2015 at 9:37 PM
That's not a legitimate NASA website, just a forum. These EM drive garbage articles comes from that one forum and questionable Chinese paper and its sad that its spreading like legitimate news when its more of intellectual herpes
Kenny Chaffin 04/05/2015 at 7:17 PM
Yah, that about summurizes the arguments against it. 100 percent emotional, 0 percent actual testing. This isn't a crackpot theory, it is a working device, vacuume tested, and duplicated by multiple people and labs.
Only way to disprove something like that is to build one yourself, and test it with proper instruments.
IgnoranceBeater 29/07/2015 at 10:31 PM
That makes no sense at all. There is no such thing as a 'virtual plasma' where one can 'push' against, as the Eagleworks claims, and virtual particles have no net-energy; they are in the lowest energy state possible, so you can't derive any energy from that neither.
This is what some people fail to realise. 'Explaining' it in such a manner, isn't better than explaining it with saying 'it's magic': you have not explained anything at all, then, and hence the violation of conservation of momentum is still there.
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