Previous lessons summarized the way in which Proverbs characterized various types of people. The wisdom of the sages included a keen awareness of the patterns of behavior that led to successful relationships and those patterns that were destructive. Another way of collecting proverbial wisdom is by the contexts with which the sages were concerned. One of their obvious concerns was the home. Almost all human beings are the product of a home and family and most then have their own home and family. This means that the observations of Proverbs on home life are of universal human interest. Throughout Christian history believers have turned to Proverbs as a major resource for instruction in the structure of the Christian home.
The initial impression that comes from reading these verses on parental discipline is that beating was the only resource considered worthwhile by the sages. Some parents feel vindicated by these proverbs and others are repulsed by the negative and potentially abusive nature of the advice of Proverbs. However, to read Proverbs simply as approving or demanding physical whipping of children is misses the point. Proverbs was written in the context of the other Old Testament passages that deal with child rearing. The positive and supportive aspects of caring for children that was present in Israelite society is assumed in Proverbs more often than it is stated.
The birth of a child was regarded as a mark of blessing from God. One of the persistent themes in the Bible is the cry of the infertile couple to God for children. Since the primitive medical understanding of the Ancient Near East believed childlessness to be the fault of the woman, most of the prayers on infertility recorded in Scripture come from famous wives. Sarah, Rachel, Hannah, and Elizabeth provide major examples of God's response to the shame and disappointment of childlessness. There was great joy that attended the birth of a child and deep sorrow experienced at a child's death (see David in 2 Samuel 12:16-23 praying for the life of his first son from Bathsheba and in 2 Samuel 18:33 grieving for Absalom). These verses show a strong affection for children that the proverbs about using the rod fail to reflect.
A second fact is that Proverbs 22:6 provides a positive statement that can well function as the guiding principle and context for interpreting the passages about beating and discipline. This proverb urges parents to train their children in the right way with the promise that the children will not depart from that way when they are old. This proverb offers a positive command of training given in a way that is appropriate for children and it holds forth the promise of fidelity and continuity to a way of life. For that reason it is an appropriate proverb to state the general assumptions of child-rearing in Proverbs.
The command of Proverbs 22:6 to train a child reflects an unusual Hebrew verb. The verb is hanak, which normally means "to initiate" or "to dedicate." It was most often used of the dedication of a house, including the temple as house of God, to its intended purpose. (The Jewish Festival of Hanukkah uses the same word and it celebrates the re-dedication of the temple during the Maccabean era.) The point of Proverbs 22:6, however, is not a dedication service for an infant as is often done in some evangelical denominations instead of infant baptism. The word hanak means "to begin" or "to inaugurate." The point is that childhood provides a context in which people can be set on the right path. If that is done correctly, the proverb promises that the child will adhere to the same way of life when he or she is old and ready to instruct the next generation (perhaps the text actually has grandparents in mind). The point is to get a child started in the right direction while they are still children.
The word translated "child" comes from a Hebrew word that can refer to the whole age range of children from infancy to young adulthood. The translation of the second phrase of verse 6 has fallen into one of two patterns. The first, represented by the King James Version and traditional interpretation, translates, "Train a child in the way he should go." The New Revised Standard Version adopts this interpretation when it translates, Train children in the right way.
However, the Hebrew construction can also be interpreted to mean, "Train a child according to the way he goes." This has been interpreted to mean that parents should "encourage a child to pursue the things he's most interested in, then he will really excel in them later in life" (Alden, p. 161). The most natural way to understand the Hebrew expression is, "Train a child in a manner befitting a child." Garrett (p. 188) declares, "One should train a child using vocabulary, concepts, and illustrations a child can understand. It does not mean that instruction should be tailor-made for each individual child (however valid that concept may be) but that one should begin instructing a child in elementary principles of right and wrong as soon as possible."
One must remember the nature of a proverb when interpreting the final phrase of this verse, the promise that the child will not depart from correct teaching when he or she is old. Hubbard (p. 304) states, "This proverb states an accurate principle; it does not offer an absolute promise." It is not difficult to find examples of children who were taught well and then lived in rebellion against the teaching for the totality of their lives. It is not difficult to discover brothers and sisters who received virtually the same parenting who make completely different life decisions that they pursue with conviction in their lives. Hubbard wisely points out that the pastoral purpose of the proverb is to instruct young parents in their responsibility for providing strong moral foundation for the lives of their children. It is not a guarantee that churched children who stray in their teen and young adult years will eventually find their way back to faith. The very structure of Proverbs denies such a predestination view. The whole appeal of the first nine chapters is to the reader as a child hearing a father's instructions. The child is free to choose right or wrong, but the parent is obligated to use every resource to persuade the child to make the right choice.
Obviously Proverbs regards the rod as a significant resource in persuading the child to take the right path in life. Proverbs 29:15 declares that the rod and reproof provide wisdom. The word translated reproof comes from a Hebrew root meaning argument. Logical argument and reasons were viewed by the Old Testament as an important resource for bringing wisdom to a child. However, almost every parent has discovered that there are moments when cool reasons are not adequate for persuading children bent on doing what they want. In that case the proverb recommends the rod. One of the proverbs from Egyptian wisdom literature observed, "Boys have ears on their backsides." The sting of spanking also can motivate proper behavior.
However, the second part of the verse places important qualification on the use of the rod. A child left to himself brings shame to his mother. The instruction to parents is clear: a child must not be left to himself or herself. Parents are responsible to be involved in life of their children. The first translation from Hebrew to Greek puts the matter rather poignantly. The Greek text literally speaks of a child left to wander shaming its parent. The rod is no substitute for parental presence, parental guidance, parental modeling, and parental participation in the life of the child.
One of the issues in the proverbs on the use of the rod is the role it can play in positively shaping a child's character. Proverbs 20:30 makes the boldest claim in this area. Though the proverb does not directly mention children it states that a severe beating cleanses evil and makes one's inner being clean. Proverbs 22:15 credits the rod of discipline with driving folly out of the heart of a child. Proverbs 19:18 implies that failure to discipline a child is to set one's heart on the child's destruction. Proverbs 23:13-14 points out that children act as if corporal punishment is killing them, when in fact it may accomplish the very opposite. A correctly administered beating will not kill a child, but it could save well save the child from Sheol. Sheol was the Hebrew term for the place of the dead. The two verses belong together for their implied contrasts. Sinful choices are often fatal, while punishment is not. A person is far better off to endure the pain of punishment, learn the appropriate lessons, and make the right choices than to be spared pain early and suffer the consequences of wrong decisions later in life.
Proverbs 13:24 brings several important elements of discipline together. Parents who spare the rod hate their children, but those who love them are diligent to discipline them. For the use of physical punishment to meet the biblical standard it must be an expression of love. While it is easy for parents to give lip service to this affirmation theoretically, it is much more difficult to put into practice. Too often corporal punishment is, in fact, an expression of parental frustration. Spankings given out of anger, impatience, or frustration do not carry the sanction and blessing of Scripture. Only spankings motivated by love are covered by this proverb. Parents who lack the integrity honestly to evaluate the real reasons behind any physical punishment of a child stand in need of discipline themselves.
Proverbs 13:24 also provides an important principle for discipline. It is to be administered promptly. The Hebrew word is often translated "diligent [ly]" or careful [ly]." However, the word means "early" or "quickly" and the timing of discipline is critical. Hubbard (p. 305) wisely notes, "The time for correction is when the wrong deed is discovered. Then the situation is clear, the feelings intense, and the opportunity for learning is most available. Withholding needed punishment is a sign of hate not love; bad behavior is rewarded by neglect, the opportunity of teaching an important lesson is lost, and the dignity of both child and parent is tarnished."
The challenges of parental discipline are overwhelming and the Biblical expectations are high. However, the Scripture assumes that parents can be successful and so instructs children in their responsibility to honor the efforts of their parents in the task of child raising.
The fifth commandment (Exodus 20:12 and Deuteronomy 5:16) demands that children honor their parents. Proverbs provides specific examples of how that may be done. The opening verse in the section of individual proverbs, 10:1, declares that a wise child makes a glad father. Proverbs 15:20; 17:21, 25; 23:15 and 27:11 echo this theme. Wise choices, commitment to wisdom, and a life in pursuit of understanding produces joy and honor for parents. The opposite is also true. Foolish choices, the pursuit of folly, and a lifetime of refusing wisdom bring shame, grief, and dishonor to parents. One conclusion of the sages is that the pursuit of wisdom is an important way to honor one's parents.
This means that all the expressions of wisdom described in Proverbs are ways of honoring one's parents. Proverbs 23:24 specifically mentions righteousness as a source of joy to one's father. Proverbs 23:16 notes that when a child's lips speak what is right it brings rejoicing to a parent. The importance of words in reflecting the life of wisdom is an important principle of Proverbs.
However, Proverbs 20:20 and 30:11 both mention the dangers of cursing one's parents. This is a more wide ranging issue than the use of profanity against one's parents. The Hebrew word translated "curse" in these verses literally means to speak lightly of, to trifle with, or to treat as of no account. One of the unfortunate results of our media culture is the debasement of words. When so many words are spoken and printed for public consumption the ability to comprehend them is surpassed. There are so many words that we cannot give serious attention to all of them so we often give no attention to any of them. In contrast, words were extremely important in Hebrew culture. They were considered the carriers of reality. To speak of one's parents (or anyone else for that matter) as worthless is to actually treat them or even make them of no value. Since God has already spoken a word of value into the reality of one's parents, cursing or speaking lightly of them contradicts God and rebels against the very structure of creation.
Proverbs 30:17 rather graphically portrays the punishment coming to persons who so disregard their parents. This proverb must be recognized as using figurative language. Few children who have mocked their parents end up with their eyes pecked out by ravens and eaten by the vultures. Proverbs 20:20 also puts the matter picturesquely. If you curse father or mother, your lamp will go out in utter darkness. One's lamp symbolizes one's life. The point is that one's life will be snuffed out. This figure of speech is declared in a straight forward manner in Exodus 21:17, Whoever curses his father or mother shall be put to death.
Proverbs also addresses child-crime against their parents. As is normally the case now,these crimes would have been committed by adult children against their aged parents. In Old Testament culture a father ruled his household until death. The demands of providing for aged parents who demanded the right of ruling the household sometimes placed adult children in a difficult position. However, violence, rejection, and robbery were not options allowed by the sages according to Proverbs 19:26 and 28:24. Regardless of the attitude or behavior of aged parents, such criminal actions toward them brought dishonor and shame to the adult child.
The most positive thing a child could (and can) do to honor parents is to listen to them and to obey them. The most common appeal in Proverbs 1-9 was for the son/reader to hear the teachings of the father/author. There and in Proverbs 23:22 the verb means both to hear and to obey. Such listening obedience demonstrates wisdom according to Proverbs 13:1. The listening and obedient child will be industrious rather than lazy, bringing honor rather than shame to the father according to Proverbs 10:5. The listening and obedient child will avoid gluttony and sexual promiscuity according to Proverbs 28:7 and 29:3. The chaste and moderate life will bring gladness and honor to the parents while refusing to obey these injunctions will yield a harvest of shame for the parents.
It is clear that the sages of Israel had observed carefully the ways in which children brought honor, fulfillment, and meaning to their parents. As has happened so often in Proverbs obedience to the commandments and practical wisdom come together and each is interpreted by the other.
Old Testament culture did not reflect directly on the qualities of a good marriage. However, that is the basic issue behind the proverbs that deal with the qualities of a good wife. Though the treatment is rather one-sided – after all there are no specific proverbs on the qualities of a good husband – these proverbs reflect a yearning for the values of a good marriage and an admiration for a strong woman that surprises many readers.
Proverbs 19:13 and 27:15 compare a quarrelsome or contentious wife with the dripping of rain. Garrett (p. 170) points out that there is more at stake here than a husband's sense of irritation at a nagging wife. Irritation that simply arises from the never ending nagging is one thing. It may be as maddening as a dripping faucet, but a dripping faucet can be fixed. The dripping of rain through the roof can be fixed also, but more is at stake than just irritation. Damage to the house, expensive repairs, and the potential ruin of a building are at stake when one deals with the dripping of a leaking roof.
Further, the Hebrew word translated "quarreling," or "contentious" in these verses and in Proverbs 21:9, 19, and 25:24 is more serious than pestering a husband. The word refers to legal proceedings. The warning of these verses is not against the whining wife, but against the wife whose talk creates such dissension in the neighborhood that lawsuits result. The idolizing of privacy in modern society leads us to interpret these passages in the context of the husband-wife relationship because most of us experience marriage (as we define it) in the privacy of our homes. In the Ancient Near East – as in many cultures still – all the extended family lived under one roof. Villages were clusters of extended families with some relationship with each other living in close proximity to the water supply. In such a culture one's performance in private was of much less concern than the ability to get along with the group. A wife who constantly stirred up the village or even the extended family placed her husband and her marriage in jeopardy.
A wife who is a quarrelsome troublemaker in the community is not likely to be a peacemaker at home either. Proverbs 21:9 and 25:24 observe that it is better to live in a corner of the housetop than in a house shared with such a woman. The most literal parallel in suburban culture would be to live in the garage in peace rather than in the house with such a woman. The proverbial wisdom of our culture speaks of "being in the doghouse" to express a similar thought. Proverbs 21:19 even states that it is better to head for the desert than to remain trapped in a marriage in which the quarrelsome wife makes it so difficult for the husband to live in peace with either his wife or his community.
On the other hand a good wife is a gift from God as Proverbs 18:22 and 19:14 affirm. Proverbs 31:10-31 provides the most extensive treatment on the ideal wife to be found in all of Scripture. While the content of these verses has elicited much interest in the debates of contemporary evangelicalism over the proper role of women these verses are an astounding literary effort also. This is an acrostic and chiastic poem on the subject on the ideal wife. There are 22 verses; as an acrostic each verse begins with the next letter of the Hebrew alphabet. Garrett (p.248) has identified this as a chiastic poem. The poem begins with the subject of the high value of a good wife in verse 10, moves toward a center concept in verse 23 of public respect for the husband, and then moves back in reverse order to the original subject of the value of a good wife in verses 30-31. The concept of a wife who works hard in verses 13-19 is mirrored in verse 27. No fear of snow in verse 21 is mirrored by no fear of the future in verse 25.
Garrett develops many more steps in the chiasm but these will illustrate the point. Not all scholars agree with him that the poem is chiastic and not all his steps are equally convincing. However, two of his basic points are valid. First, the author of these verses put an immense amount of creativity and skill into the construction of these verses. Second, the structure points to verse 23 as the key point of the verse. The lady's husband is known in the city gates, which is a way to say that he is respected in the community.
This poem is not written for young women, instructing them in the kind of wife to be, though that is an appropriate use of it. Rather, the poem was written to young men instructing them in the kind of wife they should desire. That does not make the poem a description of the kind of wife a Hebrew young man would try to select. In that culture the parents arranged marriages without consultation with the children. The way a young man can have a wife like that described in Proverbs 31:10-31 is to create a marriage relationship in which the traits described are nurtured and allowed to flourish. When that cultural background is understood these verses become more than a checklist for an ideal wife. These verses become the guiding principles for constructing a marriage relationship.
The content of Proverbs 31:10-31 is also astounding. This ideal wife is the trusted partner of her husband (verse 11). She has servants to manage (verse 15) and money to invest in the acquisition of real estate for the expansion of the family farm (verse 16). She is a shrewd buyer (verses 13-14) and seller (verses 11, 18, 24). She provides leadership in the home (verse 27-28) because she is a disciplined and tireless worker (verses 15 and 19). Her industry profits her family (verses 14, 15, 21, and 24), herself (verse 22), and provides enough to serve the poor (verse 20). However, her economic abilities are matched by moral excellence (verse 25), wisdom (verse 26a), kindness (verse 26b), and by significant spiritual qualities (verse 30).
This is no ordinary woman. Verse 30 demands that no ordinary standards be applied to her. Charm and beauty, so often admired by men who want female playthings, are of little consequence for this woman. Charm and beauty are temporary assets quickly lost to passing time and changing circumstances. The abiding values of thrift, leadership, industry, and trustworthiness characterize the lady idealized in these verses. It is no wonder that her husband and children praise her. Everyone praises her!
The spiritual thrust of the passage comes to light in verse 30 where her fear of the Lord is presented as the underlying reason for all her success. At this point we must remember the nature of proverbs. "Fear of the Lord" – a right perspective on God – will not automatically produce all the amazing characteristics of the ideal wife of Proverbs 31:10-31. For one thing, this lady was obviously very much a part of Israel's upper class society. Most Israelite families did not have servants or the money to invest in fields and to import goods from afar (verses 13-14). However, the fact that these verses are part of Proverbs means that all Israel saw them as instructive and applicable regardless of income and social standing. The fact that they are part of the Biblical canon means that Christianity today can find instruction and meaning from this description of the upper class ideal wife. The construction of a marriage in which such mutual trust and working together was no easy matter in ancient Israel regardless of a family's wealth. Mutual trust and cooperation for the good of the family is not easy today, but still of greatest value for both wives and husbands.
First Day: Read the notes on Proverbs 10-31 – Wisdom in the Home. Look up the Scripture references given.
1. Identify one or two new concepts that were important to you. Describe why these ideas are important for your life.
2. Select one or two insights that have significant spiritual meaning for you. How do those insights apply to your life?
3. Write a brief prayer asking the Lord to use you to strengthen the homes of families that are near to you.
Second Day: Read Proverbs 30. Now focus in on Proverbs 18:24; 17:17; 27:6, 9, 10, 14, 17; 26:18-19; 25:8-10, 17; 17:9; 19:22; 20:6; 25:19; 14:22; and 11:17.
1. What benefits from friendship do these focus verse identify? Can you name friends from whom you have received these blessings?
2. What requirements to be a friend can you discover in these verses? Which characteristics of being a true friend are most important to you? Why? Which is most difficult for you? Why?
3. What do these verses teach about loyalty, faithfulness, and trust? What can you do to strengthen those character traits in your own life?
Third Day: Read Proverbs 31. Now focus on Proverbs 20:22; 17:13; 24:17-18; 25:21-22; 16:7; 26:24-26; 10:12; 15:17; 17:1; 26:17, 21; 17:14, 19; and 18:19.
1. What attitude toward enemies and revenge is reflected in these verses? Is this the attitude you expected from the Old Testament? Why or why not?
2. What view of hatred and strife appears in these focus verses? In your own words summarize the harm done by hatred and strife. Is hatred ever justified? Why or why not?
3. Read Matthew 5:38-48. How do these teachings of Jesus relate to the focus verses? Does the teaching of Jesus move beyond that of Proverbs? If so, how?
Fourth Day: Read Proverbs 22-23. Focus on Proverbs 17:5; 14:21, 31; 22:9, 16, 22-23, 28; 23:10-11; 30:14; 15:25; 28:3, 27; 19:17; and 21:13.
1. What view of the poor do these verses take? How does this view fit with the idea from Proverbs that is one works hard he or she will not suffer want?
2. What attitude toward the poor does the Lord have according to these verses? Are you aware of other passages in the Bible that show God with the same attitude toward the poor?
3. Read Matthew 26:11 and I Corinthians 13:3. These verses do not seem sympathetic to the needs of the poor. How do you explain them in relationship to the proverbs you have read as focus verses?
Fifth Day: Read Proverbs 16 and 18. Now focus on Proverbs 18:4, 13, 20-21; 12:14, 18; 20:15; 13:3; 21:23; 10:19; 29:20; 24:26; 25:11; 15:4, 23; 12:25; 16:21-24; 27:5, 12, 27; s7:2; 28:23; and 10:10.
1. How important are a person's words according to these verses? Which verse made the biggest impact on you personally as you studied them? What message did that verse convey to you?
2. What benefits or blessings can arise from words well spoken? Write a brief prayer asking the Lord to train you in speaking words of blessing and grace into other people's lives.
3. What view of reproof or rebuke comes from the focus verses? Is this view different from what you would expect from the Bible? Why or why not?
Sixth Day: Read Proverbs 21. Now focus on Proverbs 21:5; 15:22; 11:14; 20:18; 21:22; 24:5-6; 24:27; 16:1, 9; 19:21; 20:24; 21:30-31; 16:3; and 27:1.
1. What do these verses say about the importance of planning? What help from God do you need for the proper planning in your life?
2. What do these verses say about God's purpose in the unfolding of people's lives? How do you fit together what these verses day about human planning and God's purpose?
3. Write a brief prayer asking God to direct your plans and the unfolding of your life to bring glory and honor to himself.
18:24 There are friends who pretend to be friends, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.
27:10 Your friend, and your father's friend, do not forsake; and do not go to your brother's house in the day of your calamity. Better is a neighbor who is near than a brother who is far away.
27:9 Oil and perfume make the heart glad, but the soul is torn by trouble.
27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy.
27:17 Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another.
26:19 is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, "I am only joking!"
25:17 Let your foot be seldom in your neighbor's house, lest he become weary of you and hate you.
27:14 He who blesses his neighbor with a loud voice, rising early in the morning, will be counted as cursing.
17:9 He who forgives and offense seeks love, but he who repeats a matter alienates a friend.
25:8 do not hastily bring into court; for what will you do in the end, when your neighbor puts you to shame?
25:10 lest he who hears you bring shame upon you, and your ill repute have no end.
19:22 What is desired in a man is loyalty, and a poor man is better than a liar.
20:6 Many a man proclaims his own loyalty, but a faithful man who can find?
25:19 Trust in a faithless man in time of trouble is like a bad tooth or a foot that slips.
14:22 Do they not err that devise evil? Those who devise good meet loyalty and faithfulness.
11:17 A man who is kind benefits himself, but a cruel man hurts himself.
20:22 Do not say, "I will repay evil"; wait for the LORD, and he will help you.
17:13 If a man returns evil for good, evil will not depart from his house.
24:18 lest the LORD see it, and be displeased, and turn away his anger from him.
16:7 When a man's ways please the LORD, he makes even his enemies to be at peace with him.
26:26 though his hatred be covered with guile, his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly.
10:12 Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.
15:17 Better is a dinner of herbs where love is than a fatted ox and hatred with it.
17:1 Better is a dry morsel with quiet than a house full of feasting with strife.
26:21 As charcoal to hot embers and wood to fire, so is a quarrelsome man for kindling strife.
17:19 He who loves transgression loves strife; he who makes his door high seeks destruction.
26:17 He who meddles in a quarrel not his own is like one who takes a passing dog by the ears.
17:14 The beginning of strife is like letting out water; so quit before the quarrel breaks out.
18:19 A brother helped is like a strong city, but quarreling is like the bars of a castle.
17:5 He who mocks the poor insults his Maker; he who is glad at calamity will not go unpunished.
14:21 He who despises his neighbor is a sinner, but happy is he who is kind to the poor.
14:31 He who oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is kind to the needy honors him.
22:16 He who oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to want.
30:14 There are those whose teeth are swords, whose teeth are knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, the needy from among men.
28:3 A poor man who oppresses the poor is a beating rain that leaves no food.
22:23 for the LORD will plead their cause and despoil of life those who despoil them.
15:25 The LORD tears down the house of the proud, but maintains the widows boundaries.
22:28 Remove not the ancient landmark which your fathers have set.
23:11 for their Redeemer is strong; he will plead their cause against you.
22:9 He who has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor.
19:17 He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will repay him for his deed.
28:27 He who gives to the poor will not want, but he who hides his eyes will get many a curse.
21:13 He who closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself cry out and not be heard.
18:20 From the fruit of his mouth a man is satisfied; he is satisfied by the yield of his lips.
12:14 From the fruit of his words a man is satisfied with good, and the work of a man's hand comes back to him.
18:4 The words of a man's mouth are deep waters; the fountain of wisdom is a gushing stream.
20:15 There is gold, and abundance of costly stones; but the lips of knowledge are a precious jewel.
13:3 He who guards his mouth preserves his life; he who opens wide his lips comes to ruin.
21:23 He who keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps himself out of trouble.
10:19 When words are many, transgression is not lacking, but he who restrains his lips is prudent.
18:13 If one gives answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame.
24:26 He who gives a right answer kisses the lips.
25:11 A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in a setting of silver.
15:23 To make an apt answer is a joy to a man, and a word in season, how good it is!
12:25 Anxiety in a man's heart weighs him down, but a good word makes him glad.
16:24 Pleasant words are like a honeycomb, sweetness to the soul and health to the body.
16:21 The wise of heart is called a man of discernment, and pleasant speech increases persuasiveness.
16:23 The mind of the wise makes his speech judicious, and adds persuasiveness to his lips.
27:2 Let another praise you, and not your own mouth; a stranger, and not your own lips.
25:27 It is not good to eat much honey, so be sparing of complimentary words.
25:12 Like a gold ring or an ornament of gold is a wise rebuke to a listening ear.
28:23 He who rebukes a man will afterward find more favor than he who flatters with his tongue.
10:10 He who winks the eye causes trouble, but he who boldly reproves makes peace.


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As heart disease is the number-one killer of men and women in the United States, and stroke is number three, learning to eat a heart-healthy diet is an essential part of both preventing and attaining good health and well-being.
Eating a heart-healthy diet can be achieved through many approaches. To start, consider what key factors contribute to prevention. To follow your heart-healthy diet, make small changes over time, rather than several changes at once.
Everybody can benefit from making dietary habit changes to prevent heart disease, but particularly those who are at high risk for the disease. For example, individuals with Down syndrome may have heart defects that are exacerbated with age, but by limiting salt (sodium) intake, decreasing dietary fat (saturated and trans), and participating in regular physical activity, heart disease may be prevented.
Developing a personal way of eating to match a lifestyle is a major key to reducing risk of disease. Making choices that are low in saturated and trans fats, as well as sugar can reduce risk of heart disease. Discuss with your medical doctor how these guidelines best apply to you.
Start your heart-healthy diet by switching to complex carbohydrates instead of refined carbohydrates, reduce sodium intake, and limit saturated and trans fats. In general, a heart-healthy diet should include a variety of foods and controlled portion sizes. Food choices should include carbohydrates, proteins, and fats, and the key is to reduce intake of high-saturated-fat foods, and to choose complex carbohydrates and low-fat protein sources. For example, complex carbohydrates provide many positive benefits, such as being low in fat and high in fiber. Consider whole wheat, whole grains, legumes, vegetables, and fruit when choosing complex carbohydrate foods. You may also find this NCHPAD factsheet helpful when trying to reduce sodium intake: Nutrition Spotlight: Salt and More Salt.
Lean protein options can include meat as well as meat substitutes. Lean/low-fat meat choices include tuna packed in water, herring, fresh ham, select beef labels (choose 'choice' and 'select'), lean roast beef, turkey burgers, and skinless grilled chicken. Meat substitutes include peanut butter, cheese, egg whites, beans, lentils, tofu, and tempeh (www.tempeh.info). Lean meat substitutes include cheese with less than 3 grams of fat per serving, egg whites or egg substitute products, as well as lentil and bean dishes. Low-fat dairy products are a healthy means of ingesting calcium and protein. When preparing protein, roast, bake, broil, grill, steam, poach, or even use the microwave, instead of frying. Use nonstick vegetable cooking sprays and taste foods without added sauces and salt: the flavor might surprise you. Place meat on a rack so that the extra fat will drain off during the cooking process, and trim off visible fat or skin before or after cooking.
Low-density lipoproteins (LDL) cholesterol is responsible for carrying cholesterol from the liver to the rest of the body, and when there is too much LDL cholesterol in the blood, it can be deposited into the artery walls. High-density lipoproteins (HDL) carry cholesterol back to the liver, where the cholesterol is processed for elimination from the body. HDL makes it less likely that excess cholesterol in the blood will be deposited in the coronary arteries. The bottom line is that to improve your heart-healthy diet, choose monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats to assist in reducing the 'lousy' LDL cholesterol levels while increasing the 'happy' HDL.
Reducing saturated fat intake begins with reading labels and learning where saturated fats are usually hidden. Saturated fat is found in animal products (i.e., bacon grease, butter, shortening, sour cream, coconut, and cream) and processed foods. Fat can be a healthy part of a diet, but it is critical to know what types of fat to avoid. The key is to substitute better fat choices (mono and polyunsaturated fats) for the saturated fats. Fat used for baking or cooking that is solid at room temperature is considered saturated fat. The healthier choice to reduce saturated fat is to use olive or canola oil, or try baking with applesauce, for items that remain liquid at room temperature. Reducing fat intake from animal products (meat, butter, and whole milk) may assist in reducing overall intake of saturated fat. Choose fat wisely, and aim for a majority of fat intake from monounsaturated fats (i.e., olive oil, avocado, almonds, sesame seeds, and peanut butter). When adding fat to meals, make heart-healthy choices, such as cooking with olive oil, and pay attention to the amount added during preparation and service.
Lifestyle balance includes making healthy food choices day by day. Consume more and more vegetables and fruits, whole grains, and legumes; engage in regular physical activity; and balance calories consumed with calories expended. Begin to take care of your heart for the rest of your life starting this month.
Enjoy a heart-healthy bowl of stew to warm the body during this winter season.
Heat water and bouillon in a large stock pot and bring to a boil.
Add the remaining ingredients except for the tomatoes and broccoli, and continue cooking for 25 minutes over medium heat.
Add tomatoes and broccoli and cook for another 5 minutes.
Remove from heat source and let site for 10 minutes to allow stew to thicken.
Puree all ingredients in food processor on high speed until smooth.
Cover and refrigerate for 1 hour or more. Serve with baked tortilla chips.


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7 Reasons Aung San Suu Kyi Should Definitely Be On Your Radar
ROMEO GACAD/AFP/Getty Images
History in Myanmar was made on Friday when it was announced that the country's National League for Democracy opposition party had won enough seats in Parliament to be able to choose the next president. The victory in the nation's most credible election in 25 years marks a significant turn from isolated military rule to a more democratic system and a freer society open to international investors and tourists. But there is one integral person behind the party who much of this watershed moment should be attributed to. NLD founder Aung San Suu Kyi has brought democracy to Myanmar, but not after a long and tough battle that has made her a national icon.
On Friday, Myanmar's election committee announced that Suu Kyi's NLD party had won 348 seats in Parliament as a result of Sunday's election. This gives her party the majority rule and the power to choose the country's next president. Although Suu Kyi, who is widely regarded as the most popular politician in Myanmar, cannot become president herself, due to a provision in the country's Constitution, she will choose a proxy president when the new Parliament convenes in March.
Though the military will still have substantial power in government, Suu Kyi's party victory will mark the first end to Myanmar's military dictatorship since 1962. As the nation transitions into its new era of democracy, get to know all the reasons why you should know Aung San Suu Kyi, whose lifelong activism led to this historic day.
She Has Been A Long Proponent Of Democracy In Myanmar
Lauren DeCicca/Getty Images News/Getty Images
In 1988, Suu Kyi founded the NLD party, which calls for a multi-party democracy in Myanmar, also known as Burma, through non-violent means. The party also advocates for human rights, particularly free speech, the rule of law, and increased social benefits.
She's A Fearless Leader
NICOLAS ASFOURI/AFP/Getty Images
The daughter of Myanmar's independence hero, General Aung San, Suu Kyi was born to be a leader and freedom fighter. When she returned to Yangon, Myanmar in 1988, she witnessed her country in total upheaval against General Ne Win's dictatorial government. Like father, like daughter, she spearheaded a revolution against General Ne Win and became a key player in the 8888 Uprising.
She's Always Been Loved By The People Of Myanmar
In the 1990 election, Suu Kyi's NLD won 59 percent of the vote, which would have given them 80 percent of the seats in Parliament. However, the military junta refused to give her power and instead nullified the election results. Over the years, she's become affectionately known as "The Lady" to the Burmese people.
She's A Firm Believer And Practitioner Of Non-Violence
Suu Kyi is heavily influenced by Mahatma Gandhi's philosophy of non-violence, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s civil rights movement, and Buddhist teachings, all of which have helped shape her own non-violent movement toward democratic reform.
She Was Placed Under House Arrest For Her Beliefs
Suu Kyi's NLD and demonstrations were met with opposition from the army, and she was placed under house arrest in 1989. She would go on to live 15 of the previous 21 years under house arrest. When the government offered her freedom in exchange for leaving the country, she refused, vowing to keep fighting until the military junta released government control to the people.
She Survived An Attack
In 1996, during a brief period when she was not under house arrest, Suu Kyi was riding in a motorcade with two other NLD leaders when roughly 200 men ambushed them and started beating on the cars with chains, metal batons, and other weapons. The attackers were allegedly members of the military junta's Union Solidarity and Development Association. The NLD filed a police report, but no official action was taken.
She Won The Nobel Peace Prize And Many Other Accolades
In 1991, Suu Kyi received the Nobel Prize for Peace for her political activism. The Nobel Prize committee chairman called her "an outstanding example of the power of the powerless." Some other accolades she's received for her work include the Rafto prize in 1990, the International Simón Bolívar Prize in 1992, and the Jawaharlal Nehru Award in 1993.

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FINALLY… Maxine Waters Hit With DEVASTATING News…
BREAKING: Andrew Lincoln Confesses The First Episode Of Season 8 Is…
Ethics Violations
Photo Credit: businessinsider.com Another day, another instance of liberal hypocrisy. Rep. Maxine Waters, has been heralded as the "new face" of the Democratic party. A fitting replacement for the failed Hillary Clinton. And, it appears Waters is following in Clinton's footsteps rather nicely considering she too has been accused of ethical violations.
Ironically, while President Trump has consistently been criticized for his so-called nepotism for having his daughter, Ivanka, as an adviser, leftists like Waters are touted as "dedicated to family." Apparently she is, as Waters has dedicated a great deal of taxpayer money to financing her daughter's lifestyle.
The Washington Free Beacon reported:
The daughter of Rep. Maxine Waters (D., Calif.) was paid nearly $70,000 by her mother's campaign during the 2016 election cycle. Karen Waters has been on the payroll of her mother's campaign committee, Citizens for Waters, since 2006. She has pulled in more than $600,000 for her services since that time.
Essentially, Waters' daughter is a glorified mail clerk for her mother's campaign, as she oversees endorsement mailers. The mailers typically consist of a sample ballot and some well-placed quotes on issues they hope will sway voters her way. For her efforts (and I use that word loosely) she raked in $65, 287 in 2016 making her the third…
Highest Paid Worker
Photo Credit: ijr.com
Rep. Waters has often touted her commitment to ending the plight of poor people and minorities. She has also proudly bashed Trump supporters as being "unpatriotic" and unfairly wealthy. Which is funny considering a great number of Trump voters don't make $60,000 a year. They work hard every day and pray they can afford to send their children to college.
It is important to note that this isn't the first-time Waters has been investigated for ethics violations. In 2010, the House Ethics committee charged Waters with three counts of violating House rules and the federal ethics code. The charges stemmed from her effort to arrange a 2008 meeting between Treasury officials and representatives with OneUnited bank.
Looks like Democrats' new icon is just as corrupt as the last one.
And these are the people who consider President Trump to be immoral and unethical, and have repeatedly called for him to be impeached? They truly have perfected the art of "calling the kettle black."
Trump Has a Problem with Women? Let's Talk About Bill and Hillary for a Minute
Everyone is pointing fingers at Trump. They say he doesn't respect women.…
This Muslim Teenager Is Under Fire For Lying About Being Attacked By Trump Supporters
A New York City Police Department spokesperson told Business Insider that a…
WOW: Trump Has Private "Call" With CEO Of Biggest Company In U.S… Then DECLARES This…
Big companies like Apple, Google, and HP are looking for a way…
DISGUSTING: Barron Trump Under Slanderous Attack… No Child Deserves This
SNL writer, Katy Rich, just crossed a line. Her disgusting tweet about Barron Trump, son of President Donald Trump, has people outraged.


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Fabrial Metals
Started by LiquidBlue, August 11, 2020
fabrial
allomancy
roshar
scadrial
Innovation Misting
Artifabrian
4 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:
Sounds like Lightning Redirection from Avatar then.
You could maybe even use augmenting Fabrials to generate lightening, if they do more than just augment. Kind of like the offensive Painrial.
Karger Dawnshard
Idealist and Theory Collector
Dawnshard
52 minutes ago, Innovation said:
Yeah, then a repulsion Fabrial to shoot it away.
Oh I did not even consider that step necessary(or safe really). Attraction will draw lightning out of the area around it. Aim correctly and you have a fairly good short range blast as it will move through whoever is right in front of you. However if you release it the lightning could be drawn to almost anything in the area.
Halyo_Alex Shade
Fateweaver
1 hour ago, Innovation said:
A Lightningspren with a Pewter cage ought to produce lightning if Pewter makes a Flamespren produce heat.
Realmatic Shadow Hazekiller
Not Quite Human
Hazekiller
Stormlight to electricity conversion anyone? A way for them to kick-start some research into electricity and its applications?
Gilphon Lord Prelan
Lord Prelan
I don't think an attractor is gonna get you the kind of weapon you want here, unless you happen to already be in middle of a thunderstorm. Like it won't create lightning, just pull in any that happens to be nearby.
So really what you want is an Augmenter to create lightning and a repulser to shoot it.
But, I mean, all of this sounds ridiculously unsafe to me. Using an attractor means getting hit by lightning and hoping it all flows into the gem instead of killing you. Using an augmenter means creating a lightning bolt and hoping you can shoot it faster than it would take to kill you. And the repulser would have to be rigged to hit a precise target instead of just diffusing it into the general area, which sounds like a lot of dangerous trial and error.
But @Realmatic Shadow is here bringing up a much more practical idea. Though really I don't know how much they need electricity; stormlight is almost as good or better for most the immediate applications of electricity, and cleverly applied heatrials gets you a lot more.
48 minutes ago, Gilphon said:
Physically lightning is called a discharge. It happens when too many electrons are concentrated in one place. An attractor should cause electrons to move to one place creating lightning.
I really don't think the realmatics are gonna work out that way. Like, spren are defined by perception. Surely a culture that hasn't discovered elections is not going to mentally define lightning as 'a bunch of electrons in a single place', and therefore that's not how a lightningspren-powered attractor would work.
You'd need to skip far enough down the road for there to be an Electricityspren rather than a Lightningspren for stuff like that to be feasible.
StanLemon Envisager
Envisager
Except in some way physics does play a part with Spren. This can be seen with the observations of the flamespren. So while perception does have importance, natural physics do too. Remember, perception in the Cognitive Realm isn't just how Sapiant beings perceive them but also how objects and people perceive themselves.
5 minutes ago, StanLemon said:
Well, yes, technically, but the way objects see themselves is defined by the way people think about them over time. Like the temple Dalinar repaired saw itself as a beautiful work of art because of the way people had admired it over the centuries.
And, no, that's the opposite of what the flamespren scene was showing. It was saying that once you obverse how long a flamespren is; once you decide in your head that this particular flamespren is this long, then that flamespren is defined as being that long and can no longer change length. The point of the scene was to show just how defined by perception they are.
@Gilphon except Brandon explicitly states that scene was a nod to properties of the natural world.
I'm a physical chemist and I'm reading your book [The Way of Kings] right now and at some point you have someone studying flamespren and what they saw, that's one of the fundamental tenets of quantum mechanics--
So you got that from quantum mechanics?
I did get that from quantum mechanics.
How did you come across that and decide to incorporate that into your epic fantasy?
Well The Way of Kings' magic systems are based on the fundamental forces. That was the original idea and the extrapolation from them. I'm fascinated by quantum mechanics and I have worked them into the way that-- Remember in my worlds, my books, the magics are a new branch of physics, in these worlds. And so they interact with our normal physics, it's not like they are ignoring them, so they obey the laws of thermodynamics, even when they appear to be breaking them, and they interact with quantum and all the stuff. It's just very natural that they are going to, to me if that makes sense? It would be weird if they didn't interact with them.
Edit: An example is Pattern, most Rosharans (if any) wouldn't have any understanding or concept of fractals and the complicated mathematical concepts that he represents
Edited September 3, 2020 by StanLemon
SpeakoftheDeval Cobalt Guard
17 bugs in a trenchcoat
Cobalt Guard
Wait I'm new to this topic-have people talked about the potential effects of singers undergoing surgery and having metal wiring placed around their gemhearts? How would this alter their forms?
4 hours ago, SpeakoftheDeval said:
Um wow. You would need to do some pretty severe stuff for that to work but It should work. I don't know if it would alter their forms although now that you mention it I think it odd that singers drink water that has metals in it without harm.
9 hours ago, StanLemon said:
An example is Pattern, most Rosharans (if any) wouldn't have any understanding or concept of fractals and the complicated mathematical concepts that he represents
What makes you say that? A fractal isn't exactly a hard concept to arrive at, and Roshar's society isn't particularly primitive. Like, they've developed a theory of particle physics. A fairly rudimentary one by our standards, but one advanced enough that you'd need fairly complicated mathematics to makes senses of it.
Like, they clearly have a concept of fundamental forces, and have scientists working on figuring out how they interact. Once you start asking questions like 'how does gravity interact with friction', the kind of math that Pattern represents is right around the corner.
As for that WoB- well, first of all, that scene is not how actual quantum physics works. It's a scene designed to invoke the idea of quantum physics in the reader's mind, and get them thinking about this kind of thing in the context real world physics- and, indeed, it is in fact a nod to the fact that quantum physics is a thing that exists in Cosmere- but quantum physics is not why that flamespren lost the ability to change its length.
To apply all this to the specific example that sparked this- if you used a Lightningspren augmenter to create lightning, said lightning would probably be made of electrons, or something very similar to electrons. But a lightningspren is made of the idea of lightning, not the idea of electrons, and so a lightningspren attractor wouldn't be able to pull in electrons. For the same reasons that a Diamondspren attractor would only be able to pull in diamonds, not graphite or coal or exhaled breath, even though all of those things are made of Carbon.
The problem with your argument, and why it being in this thread really doesn't help is that it is clear that there are Realmantic physics involved and that the concept and perception of something isn't the end all be all. The WoB I posted clearly has Brandon saying that Realmatic physics are involved.
By your logic a Flamespren wouldn't be able to be used in Fabrials to heat a room if they were just the idea of flame. They would need to use a Heatspren to heat a room. A Flamespren would only create fire. But that isn't the case. There are clearly physical interactions by which the Flamespren converts Stormlight to heat
Everybody knows that fire gives off heat, so the ideas of heat and fire are gonna be closely linked. Possibly there isn't even a Heatspren that's different enough from a Flamespren for people to notice a difference.
And, no, that's not what the WoB says. First he says that he got the idea of the scene from quantum physics, and then he moves on to talking in more general terms about he likes his magic system to interact with real world physics rather than ignore them outright.
And, well Here's a WoB where he talking about that scene being a perception-based 'fantastical quantum physics' rather than real quantum physics:
manugutito
Just remembered another physics-related question that has been in the back of my mind since forever! (And this one is no RAFO-candidate, in my mind at least)
The scene in question is that interlude on SA where two scholars measure the size of spren, and they find that the size oscillates until measured, and then it remains fixed at the measured value. This is totally equivalent to projective measurements in quantum physics, was that your inspiration on this one?
Yes, quantum physics plays a role in the way the cosmere works, and this was partially intended to display that. However, we do take a different route, as thinking about something can directly influence it in the cosmere. So it's more a fantastical version of quantum physics.
And here's another one where he admits that he's going for with a 'pop culture version' of quantum physics than the real thing. More like the idea of quantum physics than how it actually works in the real world:
So, there's a line in Elantris that has always fascinated me. Raoden is reading really old books, and he says that some of these books mention words such as "frequency" and "pulse length." I'm a physics major, this reminds me a lot of quantum physics.
Yes, it does!
So, my question is, how much is quantum physics a part of the magic in the cosmere?
Here's the thing. I don't know quantum physics well enough. That's a rabbit hole; I am an armchair scientist, I do not have a degree in physics. And so, while I really like it, I build it in... When I'm doing this, what I usually do is I build in cosmere versions, so I can't be held accountable to getting some little thing wrong. So, yes, quantum physics is important. But, in some ways, some of the things in the cosmere are more like the pop science version of quantum physics, what everyone thinks quantum physics is but really isn't, are actually some of the things in the cosmere. The fun, awesome version of quantum physics. I try to make some of it as accurate as I can, not having a physics degree. But I have to be aware that... I am not writing science fiction, I'm writing fantasy, so there will be things that you're like, "That's not quite right," but it works in the cosmere.
Anywhere I should keep my eye out for more stuff like that.
In Words of Radiance... when was the interlude, is it in the first book? The spren, they took their measurements. That's part of it. We're gonna have, just, little things like that around that are relevant, but I'm not gonna dig into it deeply until [Mistborn] Era 4, probably.
And static electricity exists. It's a know thing that "lightning" isn't limited to storms. That on some level it exists in the environment.
and these help your argument how? They basically are Brandon does care for physics he just doesn't know enough to go deep into it. And fantastical science is a theme in the Cosmere.
The presence of Investiture and the three Realms give fantastical aspects to it but Brandon has repeatedly shown that even his fantastical elements work with physics. If a lightningspren generates lightning for instance, it's still lightning and therefore electricity. I think the attractor idea is impractical but it isn't outside the realm of possibility. Spren while being living concepts still will retain properties the concept is of. Back to Cryptids, they are viewed as liespren but that isn't all they are and are tied to patterns and the underlying aspects of those patterns
So I had thought it would be clear, but apparently it wasn't. Let me clarify, then. This bit, specially:
Is my entire point. This is perception-based stuff that (not coincidentally, from Brandon's perspective) happens to resemble the pop culture version of quantum physics, but isn't actually quantum physics. One of the reasons that's true is because doing it like that allows Brandon to hand-wave away anything that doesn't match how quantum physics are supposed to work in the real world, so he can write it without a physics degree.
Therefore, it should not be taken as a sign that particle physics matter more than perception for spren. It is, in fact, doing the opposite; it's showing that Brandon fully intends to use perception to paper over any physics-based plot holes with how the magic works. It's showing that for spren, perception matters more than physics.
Which means that using a Lightningspren to pull random electrons out of the air in order to create lightning isn't going to work if you don't know that electrons exist. However, using Lightningspren augmenter-generated lightning to power an electronic machine probably would work, assuming you could figure out a way to make that design safe, because what's generated is gonna be close enough to lightning that Rosharan scholars can't tell the difference, and if you enough of concept of electricity advanced enough to think of building a device like that, it's probably close enough to function identically for the machine.
I have not said that physics are more important, however you do downplay their importance. While Brandon does use the Cognitive to gloss over, he has consistently in his writing and comments that he does care about physics interactions with his magic systems even if it isn't perfect *cough*Feruchemy*cough. I agree that an augmenter is both more practical and likely to be done, but that doesn't mean that people's perceptions are everything. I have given examples with the Cryptids on how despite them being Cognitive beings they are more tied to the math underlying their patterns than people's perceptions and beliefs would say of them. This likely applies to all or at least most spren that are built on natural forces. The attractor for instance, no one would likely even try that unless they have at least a simple underlying understanding of how electricity works but that doesn't mean it isn't part of the spren's nature.
Bzhydack Silent Gatherer
Hemalurgic Android
+Patrons
Silent Gatherer
On 2.09.2020 at 6:28 PM, StanLemon said:
Of all the metals, Iron and Steel seem the most likely to me for Conjoiners and Reversers respectively
Conjoiners and Reversers are wierd fabrials. Maybe because how popular they are, noone looks at the difference between them and "normal" fabrials.
They dont need cages. Navani in new chapter just casualy pick up ruby and place it on reed. Also, this ruby was active alone, without reed (or anything). Earlier, we have mention that gems have to be split from one and two halves move as one (in same direction rubys, in opposite direction amethysts). Only gems. Without metal cages. They always behave the same way, they dont have modificators of mouvment (if one move, other half move with the same speed, with respective direction - same or opposite).
So no metal is needet to make conjoiners and reversers. Its all precisely cuted gem and spren. I think in fact, pair of conjoiners (or reversers) are not two fabrials, but ONE fabrial. They contain only one spren in two gems - and this is why they move as one. Because they ARE one.
And now starts the funny part.
Because spren need to be physicly (or cognitivly) split to be in two pieces, but also need to be one spiritualy. And this will be not nice. Spliting process is probably very painfull for spren, because of perception (is one entity, should be in one place, but now is in two places! Error).
This explains also, why Navani had this wierd message in last chapter. Technology was available earlier, but spanreeds, even now more popular, are still not as popular as they could be. Also, once reed is made, can last very long (we dont know about cracked gems in spanreed), so spren is in wierd state, but not in pain. On the other hand, to move airship, is needet thousands gems. this meen thousands spren splited. Also, we know that gems can crack. When gem crack, crew need to replace it with new pair. This mean, more and more suffering spren. And will be only worse, because we all know that it not ends on one ship.
Well this was a pleasant surprise. Asked Brandon a couple of questions via Reddit PM and he answered within a couple days. One of those questions is of relevance to this topic, so I'll transcribe it here for y'all and include a screenshot of the original PMs for proof.
Halyo_Alex
Greetings! I just have one or two little questions I thought of after reading some of the RoW preview chapters and their epigraphs on fabrials.
Firstly, you've said before that Soulcasting can't create Atium or Lerasium ( https://wob.coppermind.net/events/136/#e2661 ) which makes sense since they're made of Investiture from other Shards. But could a Soulcaster, perhaps in the proximity of Dalinar's perpendicularity, provide enough Stormlight to Soulcast something into Honor's Godmetal (Tanavastium)? What about Cultivation's metal, or an alloy of both, like Shardblade metal?
And secondly, on the topic of Shardblade metal, could that be used as the metal cage for a Fabrial with an actual effect like the mundane metals we've seen so far?
Thanks so much for taking the time to read this!
What excellent questions.
So, creating a God Metal is not something that's done easily in the Cosmere. HOWEVER, it is possible. You'd need a ton of Investiture, and being near Dalinar's perpendicularity is unlikely to be enough. I'd say Soulcasting, or something akin to it, has the means to do this if it could obtain the proper power charge.
Shardblade metal could be used in a cage, if you could figure out how to do it, and it would have an effect--though I won't say what.
Thanks for reading! And for your interest.
LiquidBlue House Lord
House Lord
Thanks for the unique WOBs. It is not terribly surprising, but nice to know that god metals are viable metals for fabrial construction.
3 minutes ago, LiquidBlue said:
Agreed. I am curious about the specifics of it though. Maybe at some point we'll see Navani ask someone from bridge 4 at the third ideal to try it out.
4 hours ago, Bzhydack said:
This makes a lot of sense. I was wondering if this was the case after I was reminded that attractors existed.
On 9/3/2020 at 10:02 AM, Gilphon said:
But cognitively diamonds and coal have nothing to do with each other. Otherwise you could soulcast with charcoal.
On 9/3/2020 at 1:22 PM, Gilphon said:
Which means that using a Lightningspren to pull random electrons out of the air in order to create lightning isn't going to work if you don't know that electrons exist.
In that case what will happen? Lets say the someone wants to protect their home from lightning so they make a fabrail that will draw it away from their home to a safe area. If they leave it on what will happen? You say nothing as there is no lightning in the area. However heat lightning should be attracted. So should static electrisity. No one actually knows where either of those come from. Also if it is a cloudy day couldn't lightning be pulled from the clouds even if no storm is going on?
They dont need cages. Navani in new chapter just casualy pick up ruby and place it on reed
Presumably the reed was made of metal.
2 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:
Great job. Make sure those go to the arcanum!
26 minutes ago, Karger said:
Honestly, these kinds of questions are the point where my intuition fails me and I have to go 'we'll have to wait until somebody in-universe tries it and tells us what happens'. Like, do Rosharans consider static electricity to be close enough to lightning that a Lightningspren could affect both? Maybe, maybe not! I would consider one to be a scaled-down version of the other, so if it was going off of my cognition, that would work; but I don't know if Rosharan scholars have made that connection, or if that perception has affected that general populace enough to make the two cognitively close.
Although I will say that pulling lightning from a cloud without a storm strikes me as something that would require the Fabrial to have a longer range than your average attractor seems to.
Go To Topic Listing RoW Lore, Magic, and Cosmere Discussion


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JOGS hosts a major international exhibition of gems each February.
This annual show takes place at the beginning of February.
Buffalo Exchange lets people buy and sell vintage used clothing.
The Tanque Verde Swap Meet offers buying and selling opportunities along with entertainment.
The Freecycle Network is an international network promoting recycling through gifting used goods.
Woodnotch is creating designer pens and pen sets. The review has an October 2017 Kickstarter campaign for pens made from circuit boards.
TEC Accessories designs stylish items including pens, fobs and keychains. The review shows a 6/18 kickstarter campaign for a travel canister.


The key ingredient to any farmer's market is the vendors! Connect with the people who grow your food, it's the best way to learn where your food comes from and how it's grown.
The Historic Roanoke City Market has 40 contract-holding vendors, and about 10 daily vendors. We invite you to meet some of our contract-holding vendors here!
We currently are looking for Farmers/Growers.
Complete the Vendor Interest Form.
Download the Vendor's Handbook for the Historic Roanoke City Market.
Products: Original jewelry handcrafted in our studio with quality components. Our limited & unique designs are always changing!
Products: From a land grant to the Thrash family, then to the Conners, the Angles, and now the Kings, six generations have provided farm fresh, Bent Mountain grown fruits and vegetables to the Roanoke Valley.