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Laura PourMeADrink (40,703 posts)
Don't believe the bullshit that people who are vaccinated aren't getting really sick
Because they are. And if you are unlucky, you are sick in a a highly infected state and there are no beds. Be sick enough to be on a ventilator and you get a bed, for now.
In my county, 8% percent of the hospitalizations are vaccinated people. But 100% are still human beings who are getting sick alone andvare scared and may be dying.. I don't wish that in anybody.
126 replies, 5950 views
126 replies Author Time Post
Don't believe the bullshit that people who are vaccinated aren't getting really sick (Original post)
Laura PourMeADrink Aug 2021 OP
That's incredibly high compared to everywhere else.
Phoenix61 Aug 2021 #1
Thank you! It's 8% of hospitalizations are vaccinated. nt
Laura PourMeADrink Aug 2021 #4
LisaL Aug 2021 #12
The original OP had it at 8% of deaths were vaccinated.
Phoenix61 Aug 2021 #14
Yes I corrected
Laura PourMeADrink Aug 2021 #120
No one has ever said that the vaccinated aren't at risk of dying
NickB79 Aug 2021 #2
The chances are quite small ... IF
KentuckyWoman Aug 2021 #3
Of course. But if you Google it, it is bullshit because it says
0.003% risk of hospitalization or dying.
KentuckyWoman Aug 2021 #11
Ya, I think it's in red rural areas where the people who
Laura PourMeADrink Aug 2021 #18
That is untrue...people were warned and if stupid governors with political ambitions lie then
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #57
I'm sure you could find something hidden & obscure
I only just started wearing a mask again...and I have been fine. The stores are insisting upon it
Sorry, I know I am over the top with this.
This message was self-deleted by its author
Celerity Aug 2021 #44
link for that figure please
Here's the link.
Two different things. The poster I replied to overstated the protection
Since there is constant evolution and poor data overall, I think every conclusion should
Yes, still in it. All metrics (Antibodies,T helper, T killer, and B cells) still ultra high
Celerity Aug 2021 #105
No. It is not the risk of hospitalization or dying.
Ms. Toad Aug 2021 #92
KentuckyWoman Aug 2021 #116
It's not local v. national
Ms. Toad Aug 2021 #118
Rather, that is Not 100% true. However, it is mostly true.
DemocraticPatriot Aug 2021 #31
Can I steal that line??? "I don't play the vaccinated covid lottery"
Sure lol nt
DemocraticPatriot Aug 2021 #117
We'll, it is 92% true, But the 8% of hospitalized vaccinated people aren't the only ones infected
Fiendish Thingy Aug 2021 #32
Thank you for this rational post. I refuse to be hysterical about this. I have done everything
It is often true. My sister lives in Georgia. There are many cases. Her grandson brought it
In red Texas you can't even get in a hospital unless you
That is sad...the only folks I know who have died were those who refused to get vaccinated...
Please don't keep believing it is only trumpeters/unvaccinated who are
Please stop misusing statistics.
GusBob Aug 2021 #5
I know! It's like instead of listening to a clarion cry
I think the main problem with breakthrough
wnylib Aug 2021 #36
The other problem is that, by and large, people who are vaccinated believe that whatever they have -
I read the same information, trying to figure out infectious period since both
The person managing contact tracing where I work -
Is that requirement or lack thereof for a vaccinated
So what it really boils down to is how, if you contracted it during your
Unfortunately, people who have been vaccinated are really reluctant
That's amazing. But, even if we are midpoint on intelligence curve, there are 49% lower:)
I think it's dangerous to push this thinking.
Treefrog Aug 2021 #65
Yes it is a dilemma... On one hand we have to get more people
CDC study of Los Angeles data showed that you're 29 times more likely to wind up
Hugh_Lebowski Aug 2021 #6
Vaxxed and Unvaxxed are taking in the same amount of viral load
Confident in the vaccine some vaccinated unmasked and went among
pwb Aug 2021 #8
As was recently encouraged by the CDC.
Crunchy Frog Aug 2021 #10
Bingo! What's really ironic is that their tendency to
That is EXACTLY what is happening.
I do indeed, and sincerely, wish that karma kicks the willfully unvaxxed in the ass
Tarc Aug 2021 #13
I am. Like that doc in Alabama said, it's the most miserable
Check this out, if you're into that.
Thanks. I needed another rabbit hole to go down LOL
After reading this entire post, I must ask
Ferrets are Cool Aug 2021 #17
Perhaps it's a warning... If you are vaccinated DO NOT
Well, it wasn't snark and if you had stated that in your first post
Whatever. Reread just for you... And said the same thing.
I agree with you, it took me reading down the thread to figure out
OnDoutside Aug 2021 #38
Wow didn't know there was thread police now
Well, it wouldn't hurt if you want a positive response, otherwise have at it.
Good advise. My husband reminds me a lot that
And don't go around unvaccinated people AT ALL,
I still don't understand the point of the thread.
CrackityJones75 Aug 2021 #23
No? Well, surely there are other threads to go to where
I mean I guess.
Those of us who have been urging caution get tackled here, a lot, by people pushing the idea
I think caution is a good idea.
I don't put my faith in people - I put my faith in science.
But how many people on DU today are saying that?
CrackityJones75 Aug 2021 #111
Gosh I hope I'm not like you describe there.
I don't think anyone does anything on purpose really.
Could not have stated it better!!! And I often
Here's where people pretend
iemanja Aug 2021 #85
But I thought the CDC said that vaccinated people could safely take off their masks!
liberal_mama Aug 2021 #24
You know, if we give them a break for then, what about now???
hamsterjill Aug 2021 #28
This is a horrific situation. Almost 200,000 cases today and 1800 deaths. I don't know how they will
We are completely fucked.
Bear in mind there is added danger being in a heavily red county,
Well, Provincetown, MA is about as blue as you can get.
That's really surprising, I wonder what the dynamic was there ? What is
OnDoutside Aug 2021 #106
Much of the US has been back in school for a while
obamanut2012 Aug 2021 #71
+1 Can't believe the director hasn't been fired
leftstreet Aug 2021 #67
Critical and lethal cases ARE rare with any vaxed, I'll trust the world worse data
uponit7771 Aug 2021 #112
One of my law partners and his wife had a breakthrough infection
LetMyPeopleVote Aug 2021 #30
I went to a family funeral two weeks ago. My Dad's cousin died - of Covid.
Rhiannon12866 Aug 2021 #37
Message auto-removed
Name removed Aug 2021 #41
Sorry For Your Loss
Jim G. Aug 2021 #42
I did wonder if that was it, I actually checked just to see...
This Is Certainly Not How I Planned My Retirement
None of ever imagined that this would go on for so long
Sorry for your loss, Rhiannon.
brer cat Aug 2021 #48
I missed the actual message, but I got the reference
But I'm not a stranger
I'm Rhiannon
uppityperson Aug 2021 #61
I'm so sorry about your cousin.
greatauntoftriplets Aug 2021 #60
I don't believe the breakthrough infections are as rare as they claim
helpisontheway Aug 2021 #40
No one picking up the stats
I would bet
TheFarseer Aug 2021 #47
That is the whole point... I am challenging that they are
Most breakthrough cases are mild.
Elessar Zappa Aug 2021 #55
Where'd you get that? It's like very few in the big scheme
World wide data, critical and lethal vax cases are rare even with Delta
Misses the point but thanks
Those most vulnerable to COVID who are vaccinated can still die of covid
ColinC Aug 2021 #62
No one should be saying the unvaccinated never get seriously ill with Covid
dsc Aug 2021 #76
Yup! Not helping some people but 100% we HAVE to vaccinate l
I've never once read that vaccinated people are not getting sick.
GulfCoast66 Aug 2021 #80
Oops. Exact opposite
Perhaps I made my point poorly. Because miscommunication is on the communicator.
As per protection, think there's definitely a distinction between
*****BINGO!!!!!!*******
Well said, Laura!
kentuck Aug 2021 #83
Latest CDC data show vaccination effective but breakthrough cases at a non-trivial rate
andym Aug 2021 #93
" Hey, LFR! Why are you still wearing a mask and Social Distancing?"
Lady Freedom Returns Aug 2021 #102
I think that really plays a behind-the-scenes factor. We know this couple
Locally in Sarasota Memorial Hospital Report...on FB
Sancho Aug 2021 #103
that's very interesting. Thanks for posting.
Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)
Phoenix61 (14,813 posts)
1. That's incredibly high compared to everywhere else.
Many places the percent hospitalized isn't that high.
Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #1)
4. Thank you! It's 8% of hospitalizations are vaccinated. nt
LisaL (44,672 posts)
12. Not really.
In July and August, number of vaccinated people who end up infected/hospitalized has gone up.
Response to LisaL (Reply #12)
14. The original OP had it at 8% of deaths were vaccinated.
8% of hospitalized are vaccinated is in range.
Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #14)
Sun Aug 29, 2021, 10:59 PM
120. Yes I corrected
NickB79 (17,592 posts)
2. No one has ever said that the vaccinated aren't at risk of dying
They ARE at a substantially lower risk of dying, as your own numbers prove.
You're making a straw man argument.
KentuckyWoman (6,115 posts)
3. The chances are quite small ... IF
if you are fully vaxxed, have a generally healthy body that can fight off a viral load before it gets the best of you. If you use all the other tools like masks, good ventilation, hand washing and keep them out of your face etc to limit how much virus to get from a carrier.
If you do all the things. Use all the tools, your risk is about 0.003%. However, if you are higher risk due to other illnesses, or let your guard down with the other protocols, or close to that 7-8 month window, then your risk factor goes up.
I have a friend who recently died from a breakthrough infection. She had some other issues, age, heart failure etc. They think grandson passed it to her at an outdoor family picnic when he napped in her lap, no masks.
Vaccines are absolutely the best tool we have but they aren't 100% for anyone, especially higher risk people or behaviors. Use all the tools.
Response to KentuckyWoman (Reply #3)
7. Of course. But if you Google it, it is bullshit because it says
vaccinated people will have light or asymptomatic cases. That is 100% not true.
Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #7)
11. 0.003% risk of hospitalization or dying.
8% of the deaths in your area might be breakthrough, but that doesn't mean 8% of the vaxxed citizens are dying.
In my area, of all the tests performed coming back positive, about 4% are vaxxed. Of those individuals, well over 90% fight it off without need of medical attention, another test in about 5-7 days tends to come back negative. Of the ones who do need medical attention, only about 3% of that bunch end up in ICU.
Following my area compared to the national stats we tend to be very close to the averages.
I am not at all downplaying the risks. They are real, especially if you already have other issues going on. We have to use ALL the tools, ALL the time. This is not over yet.
Response to KentuckyWoman (Reply #11)
18. Ya, I think it's in red rural areas where the people who
thought they were safe, getting a vaccine, weren't adequately warned that they should not be around unvaccinated ( the many) people. No one can track that.
Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #18)
Demsrule86 (65,328 posts)
57. That is untrue...people were warned and if stupid governors with political ambitions lie then
it is up to the people that live there to figure it out...the information is out there.
Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #57)
Sat Aug 28, 2021, 02:17 PM
66. I'm sure you could find something hidden & obscure
I'm talking about warnings that actually get through to people. Effectively reaching critical mass awareness. And wearing a mask when you're vaccinated was NOT a major warning and it still isn't to the degree it needs to be
72. I only just started wearing a mask again...and I have been fine. The stores are insisting upon it
where I live in Ohio. Sorry...people have a brain and need to find information...there is plenty of info out there.
75. Sorry, I know I am over the top with this.
My dad who wasn't sick got covid and died in CT early on cuz fucking trump didn't warn anyone.
I probably need to take a break. I just don't want ANYONE to go through it. I don't care if they're Democrat or Republican, masker non masker.
Celerity This message was self-deleted by its author.
Celerity (34,232 posts)
45. link for that figure please
0.003% risk of hospitalization or dying
you are claiming that only 3 out of every 100,000 vaxxed people end up in the hospital (obviously far less out of those who were simply hospitalised would die)
You figure translates out to only 5,100 breakthrough hospitalisations out of 170 million fully vaxxed people, which is very low
here are some figures from states that show your numbers to be well off
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/10/us/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccines.html
HOSPITALIZATION RATE PER 100,000
(fully vaccinated versus unvaxxed)
Response to Celerity (Reply #45)
89. Here's the link.
https://covidwaco.com/daily/. They aren't big on footnotes describing methodology so you have to assume. Crazy.
Is the hospitalization rate the same thing as hospitalizations per 100k?
They are listing hospitalization rate of 30.9%
But what I was referring to in the OP was the percentage of people who are hospitalized who are vaccinated. On their daily snapshot it said 92% were unvaccinated. So 8% were vaccinated. Unless they meant 92% of everyone in the whole hospital... Like I said no footnotes.
94. Two different things. The poster I replied to overstated the protection
percentage against hospitalisation afforded by being fully vaccinated. They claimed only 3 per 100,000 of fully vaccinated people end up being hospitalised, when the rates are quite higher in reality (although still much lower than for unvaxxed people).
The percentage of current hospitalised cases who are fully vaxxed versus the percentage of current cases who are unvaccinated is an entirely different metric, although obviously there is some correlation (ie. the lower the overall protection against hospitalisation for the fully vaxxed, then the higher the percentage for fully vaxxed hospitalised cases will likely become on an overall basis).
98. Since there is constant evolution and poor data overall, I think every conclusion should
be notated with a *probably higher or *probably lower" footnote. Although can't really think of an occasion to use the latter Oh wait - overall testing #s are probably lower IF you equate to individual people.
Are you still in the booster study? How's that going?
105. Yes, still in it. All metrics (Antibodies,T helper, T killer, and B cells) still ultra high
Same for wifey.
And it wasn't a booster. It was our first two jabs. 2nd jab was end of April, both were 100mcg of mRNA-1273.351 Moderna variant-tweaked vax.
We both had origin strain, asymptomatic COVID back in April/May 2020.
Ms. Toad (31,015 posts)
92. No. It is not the risk of hospitalization or dying.
It is a snapshot in time, taken in the "good old days" when delta was not rampant and people were wearing masks. It is NOT a measure of risk.
When you recite a snapshot in time from a period when delta was not rampant, infections were not raging, and people were wearing masks, you ARE downplaying the risks.
Please read the earlier post I made and try to understand that waht you are calling a "risk" is not truly the risk - it is merely an old, fond, photo that will never be true again. That number measures the cumulative total up to the point it was taken - and that number will continue to grow over time.
Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #92)
116. Hmmm.
The point about snapshot in time is well taken. The stat is recent. If I have confused local vs nationwide then I apologize.
I don't know how much clearer I can be than saying even if vaxxed we need to keep using ALL the tools ALL the time. If that is downplaying....
But you have every freedom to decide my motives for me and apparently my intelligence as well. Enjoy the superiority while you can.
Response to KentuckyWoman (Reply #116)
118. It's not local v. national
It is looking at a photo a past event and suggesting it predict the future.
Your advice isn't downplaying the risk - but coupling that with reciting a snapshot in time and referring to it as a (predictive) risk DOES downplay the risk. It is that number, which doesn't represent what people say it respresents, that is being used by so many to justify risky behavior (the risk is so small I can go to restaurants, I don't have to mask indoors, etc.)
Put yourself back in March 2020. Calculate the "risk" of getting COVID on October 15, 2020 (8 months into the pandemic) the same way you are calculating the "risk" of getting COVID while vaccinated (8 months after the start of vaccinatiosn).
The total number of cases in the US was 2, 460, 364. There are roughly 333, 251,943 individuals in the country. So calculating the "risk" of getting COVID is 2,460,364/333,251,943 = .00738(or .738% - less than 1%) So what's all the fuss about if the risk of gettting COVID is less than 1%
BUT - if you calculate the "risk" of getting COVID today (vaccinated or not, for simplcity) the ame way it is 39,655,515/333,251,943 = .1190. pr 11.9% - that's a significant "risk"
There were a lot of people, at the time, looking at the small numbers of people who had actually contracted COVID and downplaying the risk becase the number . . . at the time . . . was such a small portion of the population. That is happening now when you (and others) are using a similar snapshot calculation for breakthrough cases as predictive of the current risk of acquiring COVID.
That snapshot number can only grow over time (even when the actual risk is shrinking), because the numerator (the number of deaths, or the number of breakthrough cases) continues to grow - all new cases are added to the old cases. The denominator will stay roughly the same.
There isn't any real way to calculate an absolute risk at the moment. The best we can do with any accuracy is to compare vaccinated cases to unvaccinated cases.
If the exposure in the community is significant enough so that there are (in my county, as an example) 109 new cases every day, and the vaccines are, on average, 80% effective (that's probably a high estimate, given what we now know about the reduction in effectiveness aganst delta) Of those cases, about 18 of those cases are in people who are vaccinated and 91 of them in people who aren't vaccinated.
DemocraticPatriot (1,808 posts)
31. Rather, that is Not 100% true. However, it is mostly true.
Most "breakthrough cases" of Covid in vaccinated peope ARE light or asymptomatic cases--
but not ALL of them, as the OP makes clear.
That is why we should all continue masking and other precautions, in addition to being vaccinated, which is what I do. I don't care to play the vaccinated Covid lottery.
Google is indeed wrong if they are making the blanket statement without qualifiers, which you cite.
Response to DemocraticPatriot (Reply #31)
90. Can I steal that line??? "I don't play the vaccinated covid lottery"
117. Sure lol nt
Fiendish Thingy (11,531 posts)
32. We'll, it is 92% true, But the 8% of hospitalized vaccinated people aren't the only ones infected
There are breakthrough infections that are indeed mild and even asymptomatic.
It's not bullshit, you are just misunderstanding the data. As more people get vaccinated, the percentage of cases/hospitalization/deaths that are vaccinated people must also go up, even as the total number of cases/hospitalization/deaths eventually goes down.
If 100% of the people were vaccinated, then 100% of all hospitalizations and deaths would be of vaccinated people.
Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #32)
58. Thank you for this rational post. I refuse to be hysterical about this. I have done everything
I can. My husband went back to work...been in and out of work for more than a year thanks to the pandemic. We were almost out of unemployment (which sucks in Ohio). Now we face a chip shortage. Hubs is an engineer. Well of course we were thrilled but few in his new job wear masks...There is nothing we can do. That is not a reason to turn down a job. He refused being new and all to wear one and stand out as being fearful or possibly having some underlying medical condition (he could lose his job) So far, we have both been fine. Today, his boss said he strongly recommends a mask for all...so I am thankful. I don't fear death (I am vaccinated) as much as just being ill...miserable experience. I am hoping my eight-month-old granddaughter will be able to be vaccinated soon. We have not gone near her due to the fact we might get Covid and not know and pass it on to her. Have a great day and stay safe.
56. It is often true. My sister lives in Georgia. There are many cases. Her grandson brought it
home from school...everyone but the 10-year-old child was vaccinated. None of them got it including a daughter who has a serious autoimmune disease. This has been the case with almost everyone in her neighborhood. Most don't get it and those who do have a light case. Her best friend is a nurse and she says that not one vaccinated person has been put on a vent in the hospital she works at and died. I don't doubt it happens but very rarely.
Her Grandson, my nephew is going to be fine. He is already back at school. I take precautions, wear and wear a mask because I don't want to be one of the unlucky few who catches covid. I had it last year and it was miserable. But I didn't die from it and I wasn't even vaccinated back then.
70. In red Texas you can't even get in a hospital unless you
Need to be vented. My MIL and FIL both have Covid, both vaccinated. She (otherwise healthy) has pneumonia, heart irregular beats, gastro issues, low blood oxy, high fever, and bad cough. When it gets really bad they'll see her in the ER for a couple hours but won't admit her because there are no beds and she doesn't need a ventilator. He has tested positive for almost a month now and it is so weak he can't walk from one room to another. They aren't showing up in hospitalization stats.
Today, a 27 year old coworker died from covid. Don't know if she was vaccinated or not.
73. That is sad...the only folks I know who have died were those who refused to get vaccinated...
There was one guy who used to do our lawn...his Trump signs are still out there...so ironic really. If you think about how his allegiance to Trump caused his death...he is gone and the signs are still there.
74. Please don't keep believing it is only trumpeters/unvaccinated who are
getting sick and maybe dying.
91. Please stop misusing statistics.
The .003 was a snapshot in time, when infections rates were low, mitigation was in place, and delta was barely a twinkle in anyone's eyes. It is NOT - it is looking at a photo of the good old days. The good old days of May are not predictive of how well unvaccinated people will fare now that COVID is rampant, somewhat over 95% of cases are Delta, and most people are still not wearing masks.
Mathematically - as the pandemic grows, and more vaccinated people become ill, the number you are calling a measure of "risk" will also grow - because the numerator (# ill) changes significantly as more people become ill, and the denominator (# vaccinated) is barely changing at all. Becuase it never was a measure of risk.
To use an analogy: If you look at the risk of death of people born in 1990 - right now it looks pretty good - since very few people (relatively speaking) die before age 31. So if you live your life believing that because you were born in 1990 you are invulnerable because your risk will always be miniscule, you might make really stupid choices. And I hope you can see that over time your risk of death will grow as you age. This is essentially the same calculation you are suggesting represents a fixed risk for those who are vaccinated. It doesn't. Over time more vaccinated people will become ill (just like more people born in 1990 will die), increasing the "risk."
The proper measure for risk is a compares the number of vaccinated people who are ill to the number of unvaccinated people who are ill
Under the best of circumstances, the effectiveness of the mRNA vaccines is 95%. That means for every 100 unvaccinated people who get COVID, 5 vaccinated people will.
Currently, according to the most recent Mayo Clinic report, the effectiveness of Pfizer is 40%. That means for every 100 unvaccinated people who get COVID, 60 vaccinated people will also get it.
That is a significant risk. Yes - it is considerably lower than the risk for unvaccinated people. BUT it is far more than .003% under the current circumstances.
GusBob (7,107 posts)
5. Thank you
Be prepared to be mocked as I was earlier this week pointing out a vaxxed friend died
How a public health crisis became a political football game is beyond my comprehension
Right now the vaccine is the football
Covid is the fucking referee
Response to GusBob (Reply #5)
9. I know! It's like instead of listening to a clarion cry
from someone like you or me, who are living it, people chose to instead throw out old stats and defend a vaccine like they owned Pfizer stock. Not dissing any company... Just saying this blind faith in old numbers is small minded. Covid is constantly evolving.
wnylib (16,385 posts)
36. I think the main problem with breakthrough
infections is that vaccinated people think they are completely safe. They take risks without precautions and get a heavy viral exposure of delta.
Most of the "old" statistics refer to alpha and do not take delta into account.
I don't have stats for my area on the vax staus of the deaths. I do know that 16% of all infections here are fully vaxxed. Deaths so far are among seniors in their 70s and 80s. That is no consolation to me since I am in my 70s.
Response to wnylib (Reply #36)
95. The other problem is that, by and large, people who are vaccinated believe that whatever they have -
it isn't COVID, so they don't stay home, don't test, don't stay away from children - and pass it on.
For the first 5 days, the viral load of a vaccinated person who has COVID is identical to the viral load of an unvaccinated person with COVID. It is those first 5 days when a vaccinated person is least likely to know or believe they have COVID.
My employee and I were collectively exposed 3 times before the first day of classes (i.e. enough for contact tracers to contact us). Two of those exposures were from people who were vaccinated and being cavalier about not having COVID (first by not masking around us generally, and second by not believing that the symptoms they had were COVID - rather than a cold, or a simple headache).
Fortunately, both of us escaped COVID*, because (among other things) both of us are vaccinated and are scrupulous about wearing our masks.
* I have one more test to go, since they want us to test at 5 days and 10 days, but the rapid test and PCR test @ day 5-ish were both negative.
101. I read the same information, trying to figure out infectious period since both
my husband's vaccinated parents have Covid.
As for contracting it...Like you know exactly when you came in contact with an infected person (Day 1)...then there's incubation period in YOU which I read on average was 3.7 days (Day 2, 3 & 4). So you (if average) wouldn't test positive until (Day 5)? So based on what you said, testing day 5 falls in line.
Of course, what is more of a total guess is when you don't know where you got it. My in-laws don't - except constant flow of neighbors dropping in - and then the ironic - "oh, ya, we did go to that funeral"
Now my FIL who's still testing slightly positive 4 weeks in, can't walk. I was just reading how some covid patients lose their motor skills and have to literally be retrained to walk.
Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #101)
104. The person managing contact tracing where I work -
says they use a lookback period of 48 hours from when symptoms began, then encourage testing at days 5 and 10 from exposure. Once you have a positive test, even if symptoms disappear, you are not allowed to return to work for 10 days from the start of symptoms. (But if you are vaccinated, you are not required to isolate - even with a confirmed exposure - unless you test positive)
The problem with testing at day 5 (and assuming you are OK until then) and allowing vaccinated individuals to continue to engage with others is that you can contract it earlier - at 3-4 days - test negative then, but still be contagious (and potentially asymptomatic - one of the 3 exposures in our office was with a person who believed they just had a cold).
Once I was informed I had been exposed, I stayed home until about day 4.5 - after my first negative test. I wasn't required to stay home, since I'm vaccinated, but I am not about to impose the COVID lottery on anyone else. I had a full teaching load starting at 2:00 PM on day 4, so I delayed testing until as late in the day as I could and still arrange to teach remotely if it was positive. That meant I needed to use a rapid test (less accurate), and follow it up for my own comfort with a PCR test later.
Masks continue to be very effective protection. I was relatively confident I would be fine, since I am scrupulous about masking. But I'm still going to walk the walk to protect others and stay home until the time most infections show up and I get a negative test. I would have been more comfortable with one more day - and, had it not been the first day of classes, I might have shifted to remote teaching rather than impose the risk on my students that I would convert later.
Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #104)
Mon Aug 30, 2021, 11:05 AM
122. Is that requirement or lack thereof for a vaccinated
person not to have to quarantine a state guideline or CDC? My two vaccinated SIL's are taking care of my in-laws who have covid. Talking same house. When they can leave they're both planning on isolating for 10 days. Before they go back to their own families. That made me feel relieved. I don't want them to know it's not required. LOL.
You have taken this all on in the most responsible way possible. And your empathy to others shines through loud and clear MT!!!!
123. CDC guidance
Fully vaccinated people who have come into close contact with someone with COVID-19 should be tested 3-5 days following the date of their exposure and wear a mask in public indoor settings for 14 days or until they receive a negative test result. They should isolate if they test positive.
So no isolation, unless you test positive.
That recommendation doesn't thrill me, since vaccinated individuals are more likely to be asymptomatic or have symptoms that are easily confused with a cold - but still be just as contagious as unvaccinated individuals. That's why I went a step beyond - testing at 4.5 days (as close to heading in to teach as possible, but still leaving time for a switch to remote).
124. So what it really boils down to is how, if you contracted it during your
Incubation period, contagious are you to others? And are you willing to take a chance that you aren't with your immediate family. So much of this evolution of covid has been to me a matter of common sense. If CDC is recommending that you wear a mask public places, if you've been exposed to someone with covid, it makes literally zero sense that you wouldn't do that in your own home ( or quarantine)
I swear you'd have to be really low IQ to have regular cold symptoms AND have been exposed to someone with covid and not realize that's the biggest red flag in the world. Yet my MIL thought her initial cold symptoms were related to having the window open and it was just allergies. That happened to someone down the street. It took her about 2 weeks of nurse maiding my FIL to catch it herself.
Mon Aug 30, 2021, 12:02 PM
125. Unfortunately, people who have been vaccinated are really reluctant
to believe they have what they are being told is a very rare breakthrough case.
One of the three exposures my employee and I had prior to the first day of classes was someone who was sure it was just a cold. (I don't believe she knew she had been exposed).
126. That's amazing. But, even if we are midpoint on intelligence curve, there are 49% lower:)
Treefrog (4,170 posts)
65. I think it's dangerous to push this thinking.
This is what the unvaxxed use as an excuse.
Response to Treefrog (Reply #65)
68. Yes it is a dilemma... On one hand we have to get more people
Vaccinated so you don't want to discourage that. But it's reality people are still going to get sick with breakthrough cases. So hiding that from the public is dangerous too. I mean it's going to happen and people will look to the government and say hey why didn't you tell me? I always think you should go toward honesty always.
Hugh_Lebowski (30,260 posts)
6. CDC study of Los Angeles data showed that you're 29 times more likely to wind up
in hospital if unvaccinated vs. fully vaxxed. But only 5 times more likely to 'test positive for covid'.
So, you're right, it's not like vaxxed people aren't getting sick.
Sounds like in your county, you're only roughly 11.5 times more likely to die if unvaccinated (that assumes 50/50 in the population vaxxed vs. not), which seems low, but maybe more co-morbidities there vs. LA.
Response to Hugh_Lebowski (Reply #6)
21. Vaxxed and Unvaxxed are taking in the same amount of viral load
The difference is that the vaccinated person's viral load diminishes more quickly.
It's the severity of the bout for the vaccinated that I think is understated. But hell, the bigger picture is we have to convince people to get vaccinated so talking about people who are really sick who have gotten vaccinated doesn't play well
pwb (9,409 posts)
8. Confident in the vaccine some vaccinated unmasked and went among
the unvaccinated. Our guard should remain up IMO.
Response to pwb (Reply #8)
Crunchy Frog (26,259 posts)
10. As was recently encouraged by the CDC.
Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #10)
25. Bingo! What's really ironic is that their tendency to
not alarm and to be slow on the uptake actually makes them look incredibly worse in the long term.
15. That is EXACTLY what is happening.
Tarc (10,330 posts)
13. I do indeed, and sincerely, wish that karma kicks the willfully unvaxxed in the ass
and I'm not sorry.
Response to Tarc (Reply #13)
16. I am. Like that doc in Alabama said, it's the most miserable
way to die.
59. Check this out, if you're into that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/
87. Thanks. I needed another rabbit hole to go down LOL
Ferrets are Cool (18,822 posts)
17. After reading this entire post, I must ask
Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #17)
19. Perhaps it's a warning... If you are vaccinated DO NOT
go around unvaccinated people without a mask.
Thanks for your snark!
20. Well, it wasn't snark and if you had stated that in your first post
I wouldn't have felt the need to ask. I don't read mind very well...especially on discussion boards.
22. Whatever. Reread just for you... And said the same thing.
OnDoutside (19,655 posts)
38. I agree with you, it took me reading down the thread to figure out
the point of the OP.
Response to OnDoutside (Reply #38)
64. Wow didn't know there was thread police now
Should we be running ideas by you first before we post? It's be easier for you anyway
69. Well, it wouldn't hurt if you want a positive response, otherwise have at it.
88. Good advise. My husband reminds me a lot that
He isn't inside my head to know what I was thinking about before I start talking.
33. And don't go around unvaccinated people AT ALL,
if you can possibly avoid it...
CrackityJones75 (2,403 posts)
23. I still don't understand the point of the thread.
Response to CrackityJones75 (Reply #23)
27. No? Well, surely there are other threads to go to where
you understand the point of?
34. I mean I guess.
But I would really like to understand what you want to accomplish with this thread, here, in this community. If it was meant as more an open letter voicing what you would like to say to people in general I think it makes more sense. But by and large it seems to be preaching to the choir here. I respect you as a poster and enjoy many of your posts.
Here are some things that are a but fuzzy to me. Vaccinated needs to stay away from unvaxxed. That isn't exactly an easy thing to do. I suppose for the people that we k ow aren't vaxxed that is easy. But we are in a country where more and more we are being (stupidly) expected to return to normal, and that is going to expose us to people whether we know it or not. I think all or most of us here would like to be able to not expose ourselves to unvaxed when possible.
Unfortunately your post reads (even though I know that it isn't your intent) that vaxxing is of little value considering you can still get and spread.
Also I am not sure about some of the stats and numbers that are being thrown around in some of replies here in the thread.
Additionally I share your concerns in that I have an unvaxxed 9 year old with pulmonary issues. He has to go to school in person with full classes -thankfully masked starting Monday. While I live in an area that has high vaccination rates for those eligible it weighs heavily on my mind. It terrifies me.
Anyway I don't mean you any disrespect.
96. Those of us who have been urging caution get tackled here, a lot, by people pushing the idea
that there's nothing to worry about if you're vaccinated - the line goes like - cases of COVID among the vaccinated are rare (or extremely rare - depending on the poster), but if you get it you won't get very sick or die. Those posts are often coupled with assertions the poster is vaccinated, so don't ask them to wear two seatbelts (mask + vaccine), they aren't going to sacrifice for the unvaccinated mobs.
Since I am one of those who have been urging caution - I recognized immediately what the OP was referring to. Personally - I tend to over-explain things, so I get the eye roll from the target audience suggesting that they aren't going to (or didn't) even bother to read the explanation that started with the background.
97. I think caution is a good idea.
But there are also people here that insult others that do not share the same level of caution, or that follow the guidelines of the officials in place. And if we i sult the people that put their faith in those officials then how do we insult the people that refuse to put faith in the officials that say to trust vaccines?
I agree with advocating caution. But there are some here that will beat people over the head with it. Puff up their chest, spread out their feathers and crow around about it in the face of those that HAVE to go about their lives because of jobs, caring for their family, etc.
I think there can be a happy medium there.
100. I don't put my faith in people - I put my faith in science.
There is a difference. Sometimes the agencies which are supposed to act for the good of the public lose their footing. The CDC has been doing that too much recently - sluggish to recognize the science and acting as if they are the personal physician (focusing on individual health), rather than on public health. I would never insult anyone for not following the CDC - any insults I levy are for not following the science. On many subjects it is the same, but unfortunately, on COVID, their record has been about 50-50.
There is also a vast difference between going about our lives because of jobs, caring for family, etc. and throwing caution to the wind while doing so. I've been in the office since the stay-at-home restriction was lifted sometime last summer, and teaching in person since August 2020 (over a year). I have never suggested anyone needs to stop living - just live in a way that is consistent with the appropriate respect for COVID.
I never stopped wearing masks. I could count on both hands the number of times between the first week of March 2020 and May 2021 when I had been in a room with someone I was not living with, without a mask. All but 2 of those were medical or dental situations (I had a root canal - which requires several visits, and three surgeries for an aggressive cancer). By now, I'm up to needing 3 hands to count and I've added 5 non-medical encounters (3 x were with my elderly parents in an isolated extended care community that had its first COVID case in its residents about 3 weeks ago).
I'm appalled at the number of DU members who insist that going without masks is just fine, despite the science on public health, and dismiss concerns about contributing to the development of Delta, infecting 0-11 year olds, or infecting immune compromised individuals. That's not consistent with science (it never was) and focusing on personal convenience rather than public health is about as far from progressive values as you can get.
111. But how many people on DU today are saying that?
I don't think many here are still saying that. I think when that was the direction of the CDC that was more of a thing. But again that is a department with billions of dollars in funding for these types of things. And we are like 14 months into it. Not surprising that people would welcome and celebrate the good news. I know I was ready to hear that good news. And then when the CDC said mask up again, my mask went on.
Then there is the truth that these agencies are going to get things wrong from time to time. We have to allow for that to some degree and allow them to save face so long as it wasn't willfully putting people on grave danger for nefarious reasons. Which I don't think the CDC was doing.
Anyway good on you for keeping yourself safe. Good call.
109. Gosh I hope I'm not like you describe there.
I totally get it - and I think I will always add - that I
am lucky enough to be able to be at home. I honestly
have great sympathy for those who have to be out
in the masses. And unfortunately in this red state
some workers just have to go along with whatever
their management fails to enforce or they get in trouble.
110. I don't think anyone does anything on purpose really.
People are just on edge. Everyone has been pushed beyond the limits of what we should be and sometimes the replies and the tones aren't what they normally would be.
I am probably the most guilty of that.
We all just need a break so that we can breathe.
Response to CrackityJones75 (Reply #110)
121. Could not have stated it better!!! And I often
Wonder how much of an affect it has that trump was never really held accountable for letting it get out of control here to begin with, for purposely not warning people, and for pushing control ( and blame) down to states.
He also instructed FEMA not to pay for burials as is in their mission for national emergencies. Thankfully because of AOC's bill funds are being disbursed now. It was at least a small token of retribution.
iemanja (52,284 posts)
85. Here's where people pretend
they never mocked the idea that vaccinated people could get sick.
liberal_mama (1,180 posts)
24. But I thought the CDC said that vaccinated people could safely take off their masks!
My family member in public health says breakthrough infections are not rare at all.
Response to liberal_mama (Reply #24)
26. You know, if we give them a break for then, what about now???
There should be warnings every day that no one should be unmasked period paragraph. Crickets.
hamsterjill (14,742 posts)
28. +1000
The CDC made a huge mistake by saying masks were not necessary if vaccinated.
Mask, double mask, distance, hand sanitizer, wash hands when possible, vaccinated and you can STILL get sick.
We do what we can, and those efforts are thwarted by the willfully ignorant who won't get vaxxed. But having the vaccine is not a get out of jail free card like it was initially portrayed.
29. This is a horrific situation. Almost 200,000 cases today and 1800 deaths. I don't know how they will
get this back under control, especially with school starting in a lot of areas. In my area, Western NY, school doesn't start until September 8, I think.
35. We are completely fucked.
My kid starts Monday. In schools. Masked but still.
39. Bear in mind there is added danger being in a heavily red county,
than being in a heavily blue county. My brother and his family live in a heavily red county in Florida, so he is still very careful, including wearing N95 and KN95 masks instead of the usual cloth ones. His fully vaccinated 12 year old son is about the only mask wearing student in his class.
99. Well, Provincetown, MA is about as blue as you can get.
And they had a hell of a Covid breakthrough event.
106. That's really surprising, I wonder what the dynamic was there ? What is
the vaccination rate there ?
obamanut2012 (23,693 posts)
71. Much of the US has been back in school for a while
About three weeks in FL.
leftstreet (34,837 posts)
67. +1 Can't believe the director hasn't been fired
If the CDC had pulled this shit under Trump...
uponit7771 (88,288 posts)
112. Critical and lethal cases ARE rare with any vaxed, I'll trust the world worse data
LetMyPeopleVote (124,234 posts)
30. One of my law partners and his wife had a breakthrough infection
They sent their under 12 years of age kids to summer camp and the kids brought back COVID. My law partner is fine other than being tired. His wife had a cough and developed an ear infection. They gave her steroids and antibiotics for the ear. The kids had a cough but that is it.
Breakthroughs tend to be far less severe. No one in this family was in danger of going to the hospital
Rhiannon12866 (171,595 posts)
37. I went to a family funeral two weeks ago. My Dad's cousin died - of Covid.
She just celebrated her 88th birthday - took every precaution and was fully vaccinated. No one in her family can figure out how or where she got it. She was also a lifelong Democrat.
Response to Rhiannon12866 (Reply #37)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Jim G. (14,732 posts)
42. Sorry For Your Loss
It was nice of the previous poster to go to the Library & make up a fairy tale for you to try to make you feel better too.
Response to Jim G. (Reply #42)
43. I did wonder if that was it, I actually checked just to see...
I've been here long enough that I recognize certain names and I noticed a familiar one just today.
And I was pretty shocked, she would have been my last guess of my great uncle's family, she was the family historian and if something happened that I should know, she'd be the one I'd hear from. It's also sad because there have been no family gatherings for over a year, including this time post-funeral - nobody is taking any chances. *sigh*
46. This Is Certainly Not How I Planned My Retirement
I caught a little cold on Wed. & I'm like retracing my steps for the last week, seeing if I can still smell & taste, taking my temperature every half hour etc. & basically worrying myself over some dirty Kleenex. I talked to my sister today after her yoga & she said "Well you haven't been sick for five years" & I'm like "Glad I didn't talk to you on Wed. or I'd have been at Urgent Care with a stick up my nose."
I'm supposed to go to my Niece's wedding in October & then fly to California for a few weeks to visit another sister. I'm really not looking forward to either. My sister's husband is slowly dying from brain cancer so that's more of an obligation than a vacation.
The only thing I've been doing all summer is going to the Zoo every week or two where I can be out & still be distanced. Other than that I've just been playing tennis a couple times a week & riding my eBike on the bike paths, so at least I'm in really good shape now so I'll look good in a suit anyway.
I miss seeing live music & I'd sure love to go to a ballgame but I just won't. Maybe never, & that's sad. But I think about how this must be for my kids & Grandkids & that's even sadder. They're not able to do the things they should be doing & it's all because of the way TFG & his cabal of crooked morons bungled the entire pandemic.
I miss chatting with you too so I guess I'll have to do better.
49. None of ever imagined that this would go on for so long
A lot of us feel like life is on hold. I do very few things that I used to do. I was responsible for a couple of beginners' AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) meetings - 4x a week, but we had the last one on March 16, 2020. We figured it would be a couple or a few weeks, but they were held at a treatment center where people live, so they have yet to reopen and I don't know if they ever will.
And I used to go to a mediation group comprised of a group of (mostly) older ladies who I was very fond of - but a dozen of us met in an artist's studio - one of the ladies is an artist - and we crowded in on couches and chairs, no room for "social distancing," so who knows if that will ever resume. We last met when the eldest lady in the group invited all of us to the 70th anniversary of her husband's Bar Mitzvah! And that was at the end of February of last year. *sigh*
I've had a sinus issue, get headaches and sleep a lot - that predated the pandemic. My doctor suggested sending me to an ENT, but that took a few months because everything closed except for emergencies. So that's still with me, despite several visits.
And the thing is, we wasted an entire year doing nothing about this pandemic until we finally got a leader who took some action - and how many unnecessary deaths happened while he wasted all that time?? Meanwhile, it's gotten progressively worse and there's still no end in sight.
I've often wondered what history will make of this unprecedented time - I cringe to imagine. And what about kids? The younger ones have never experienced "normal" times - and I'm beginning to wonder if we ever will.
But we still have DU which has been a salvation during all this stress and angst - which has been an incredible blessing. I don't know how I could have survived without it - both for the information and the camaraderie here...
brer cat (20,337 posts)
48. Sorry for your loss, Rhiannon.
I thought the previous poster would be familiar to you.
Response to brer cat (Reply #48)
50. I missed the actual message, but I got the reference
And are there 2 of them? I see a very recognizable name with 4 posts, so far...
And thanks for the kind words. This was the first person I've known to get Covid - and not only was she family, but she was also fully vaccinated. I keep thinking how this didn't have to happen if only we'd had some national leadership from the beginning.
Response to Name removed (Reply #51)
52. But I'm not a stranger
I'm a very old friend!
54. I'm Rhiannon
Hope that you're doing well.
uppityperson (115,505 posts)
61. Yup
greatauntoftriplets (174,209 posts)
60. I'm so sorry about your cousin.
helpisontheway (4,879 posts)
40. I don't believe the breakthrough infections are as rare as they claim
I have had several fully vaccinated friends and family get infected over the past month. Some are in places with high Covid infections (Memphis) but others are not. I think many of the breakthrough infections have mild symptoms or the people are asymptomatic. I think many with mild symptoms might do a rapid test at home so we never find out about those positive tests.
Response to helpisontheway (Reply #40)
79. No one picking up the stats
TheFarseer (9,242 posts)
47. I would bet
The number of breakthrough cases is actually much higher. Asymptomatic people and people with mild cases, I would bet, are not getting tested.
Response to TheFarseer (Reply #47)
81. That is the whole point... I am challenging that they are
Mild and asymptomatic cases. Exactly what google tells us. It is not true because I am personally witnessing it.
Elessar Zappa (10,348 posts)
55. Most breakthrough cases are mild.
Small amounts are miserable cases but don't require hospitalization and an extremely small number are hospitalized and die. So the vaccine works very well. As for the unvaccinated, I don't give a damn how much they suffer unless they aren't able to be vaxxed for a legitimate reason.
Response to Elessar Zappa (Reply #55)
77. Where'd you get that? It's like very few in the big scheme
Of things get sick. So no big deal.
That is NOT the case.
113. World wide data, critical and lethal vax cases are rare even with Delta
Response to uponit7771 (Reply #113)
119. Misses the point but thanks
ColinC (7,114 posts)
62. Those most vulnerable to COVID who are vaccinated can still die of covid
Which is what makes the anti vax BS so dangerous and angering. It is the most effective way to fight COVID, and eliminate it. But anti vaxxers are endangering the lives of the most vulnerable as a result. I have no patience for them.
dsc (51,560 posts)
76. No one should be saying the unvaccinated never get seriously ill with Covid
as some of them do. But the risks are vastly less if you are vaccinated and even if you get seriously ill (as in enough to be hospitalized) you are still less likely to die. Vaccines aren't 100% effective.
Response to dsc (Reply #76)
78. Yup! Not helping some people but 100% we HAVE to vaccinate l
114. Yep
GulfCoast66 (11,949 posts)
80. I've never once read that vaccinated people are not getting sick.
And it was never sold as a possibility. We hoped the vaccine in the early days would be 60-70% effective. Now we have proof it is around 90-95% effective. Against not just getting sick but being hospitalized or dying. That holds true. As more people get vaccinated a higher percentage of the sick will be vaccinated. That's just common statistics. If 100% of the people are vaccinated 100% of the sick will be vaccinated. But there will be lots fewer of them and very few deaths.
If an older person who is vaccinated gets sick, especially with co-morbidities then it can go poorly. But not as poorly as an unvaccinated person. And Looking at anecdotal cases is the worse way to judge risk.
In my part of Florida the hospitals have mobile morgues at them. Full of almost of only unvaccinated people.
But including a very few older vaccinated people and lots of unvaccinated people in the prime of their lives.
I'm fortunate to live in a part of Florida with higher vaccination rates. While still carefully masking and distancing I'm not living in fear like I did before the wife and I got vaccinated. Especially since my workplace just installed a policy that all 70K employees must get vaccinated or face termination.
Hyperbole that states that most vaccinated people are at daily mortal risk is not backed up by evidence.
Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #80)
82. Oops. Exact opposite
We hoped the vaccine in the early days would be 60-70% effective. Now we have proof it is around 90-95% effective
84. Perhaps I made my point poorly. Because miscommunication is on the communicator.
Not the one being communicated to. So bad on me.
Vaccinations are not only about not contracting a deadly virus. But going to the hospital and dying from it.
If there is evidence that 25-30% of the people in the hospital are vaccinated please let me know. In a low vaccination spot like Florida where the hospitals are overwhelmed. Because in my part of Florida it is closer to 10%. Less in the ICU. Way less in deaths.
If in a place with very high vaccination rates I would expect the percentage to be higher, as counter intuitive as it sounds. A population with 75% vaccination rates will naturally have a higher percentage of vaccinated people in the hospital than a population with a 30% vaccination rate. But there will be way less hospitalizations overall.
A place with 100% of vaccinated people will have a rate of 100% vaccinated in the hospital. But there would be very few.
Some on DU act like our vaccines gave us no protection. That is as nutty as saying once vaccinated we could never get it.
86. As per protection, think there's definitely a distinction between
The vaccine:
A. protecting/minimizing against incidences of hospitalization/death - Definitely!
B. Protecting against simply contracting the virus and getting ill. Not so much.
I think the stats now are not really telling the whole picture. As I've said, people who are vaccinated and ill and would in normal times be in a hospital are not there. It's almost like the healthcare system has weeded only the most serious cases. Some have no choice.
115. *****BINGO!!!!!!*******
kentuck (108,524 posts)
83. Well said, Laura!
andym (5,214 posts)
93. Latest CDC data show vaccination effective but breakthrough cases at a non-trivial rate
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e1.htm
New COVID-19 Cases and Hospitalizations Among Adults, by Vaccination Status — New York, May 3–July 25, 2021
What is already known about this topic?
Real-world studies of population-level vaccine effectiveness against laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and COVID-19 hospitalizations are limited in the United States.
What is added by this report?
During May 3–July 25, 2021, the overall age-adjusted vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization in New York was relatively stable (91.9%–95.3%). The overall age-adjusted vaccine effectiveness against infection for all New York adults declined from 91.7% to 79.8%.
What are the implications for public health practice?
These findings support the implementation of multicomponent approach to controlling the pandemic, centered on vaccination, as well as other prevention strategies such as masking and physical distancing.
Everyone needs to be careful out there. Vaccine protection is not bullet-proof, so masking and other precautions need to be taken.
Lady Freedom Returns (13,588 posts)
102. " Hey, LFR! Why are you still wearing a mask and Social Distancing?"
"You got vaccinated."
THIS! This is why. I have this crazy idea that life is more important than socializing.
Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #102)
107. I think that really plays a behind-the-scenes factor. We know this couple
who LIVE to get together with others. I swear they can't go out to eat without
having someone eat with them. If they are on rare occasion alone,
they post a pic of themselves with their location on Facebook. They
also got Covid early, with a vengeance.
Sancho (8,807 posts)
103. Locally in Sarasota Memorial Hospital Report...on FB
274 Patients Hospitalized - 28 Vaccinated, 246 Unvaccinated
48 Patients in ICU - 1 Fully Vaccinated, 47 Unvaccinated
36 on Ventilators - 1 Fully Vaccinated, 35 Unvaccinated
Reported on FB this week.
In this part of Florida, there are lots of older folks. It appears to me that the vaccine is doing the job. I've already gotten the booster.
Fauci said today that given time, the entire vaccination protocol could be altered to be more than 2 shots or on a different timeline. With the original research no one had an opportunity to figure out the optimal schedule or number of shots. It may be that a few years from now there will be a much more effective vaccination plan.
Response to Sancho (Reply #103)
108. that's very interesting. Thanks for posting.
General Discussion (Forum)


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text:
Sibling Rivalry Helps TCM Find 'Where Then Meets Now'
"24 frames a second. Suddenly the world was different. We laughed more. We cried more. And we danced. And when the lights dimmed, we'd hold our breath, spellbound as we were transported to worlds far from our own," starts the voiceover for this spot produced by Turner Classic Movies' (TCM) brand and creative marketing team. TCM teamed up with New York City-based creative agency Sibling Rivalry and music production Made Music Studio on its recent rebrand.
"Everything old is new and classic movies are no exception," said Pola Changnon, general manager of TCM, in a statement. "Our new look better reflects the vibrant brand and respected industry authority that TCM has become over the years, with an eye toward the future. Fans can still enjoy the same curated classic film experience, now presented with a bold new energy that reflects today's audience."
The partners worked together to develop a new tagline—"Where Then Meets Now"—as well as new creative packaging and a new logo.
The tagline represents the way in which the past establishes the future. It also gives the network flexibility when it comes to promotion, using the "where _____ meets _____" structure to say any number of things, such as "where style meets influence" or "where Spielberg meets Soderbergh."
The new logo focuses on the "c" in the middle of TCM. The double "c" represents a camera lens as well as the four key "cs" of the TCM brand: curation, context, connection and culture. Sibling Rivalry imagined that "c" in many different shapes, sizes and forms, giving the network a lot of room with which to play.
New York City-based music company Made Music Studio refreshed TCM's sonic identity, creating a mash-up of several genres, including pop and strings, that serve as a nod to iconic Hollywood musicals.
RELATED: Why Man Made Music Evolved to Made Music Studio
In addition to the creative packaging refresh, the on-air sets for TCM hosts Ben Mankiewicz, Eddie Muller, Alicia Malone, Dave Karger, and Jacqueline Stewart are being reimagined and updated to give them a more contemporary feel. TCM's in-house team produced the below teaser spot featuring the primetime host Mankiewicz. The spot launched a week prior to the rebrand launch to let fans know that change was coming to the channel.
READ MORE: Sibling Rivalry
Tags: made music studio rebrand sibling rivalry tcm warnermedia
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Climate change is hurting craft breweries
By Irina Ivanova
November 1, 2017 / 5:00 AM / MoneyWatch
First it came for the wine. Now, climate change is set to put a damper on the world's supply of beer.
Small breweries in the Pacific Northwest are struggling with a shortage of hops, a key ingredient in beer. Washington, Oregon and Idaho grow almost all the hops in the country, according to the US Department of Agriculture, and those states have seen increasingly harsher droughts over the past few years.
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"We are reaching this kind of tipping point," said NASA climate scientist Joshua Fisher. "What we've been used to in terms of how much rain we're going to get and how plants grow is no longer the norm."
How does climate change affect wildfires?
Ultimately, a smaller crop means hops, and the beer it goes into, becomes more expensive, reports CBS Los Angeles' Chris Martinez.
The US produces about one-third of the world supply of hops, with Germany responsible for another third. But American output dropped by about a quarter last year, thanks to climate change effects.
In the US, some farmers in other states are trying to grow hops, while others are investing in conservation technology to make the most out of the water they do have or switching to other sources of water, like groundwater. That last method has had mixed results because it changes the taste of beer and can lead to long-term groundwater depletion.
Dozens of breweries have also signed on to a "Brewery Climate Declaration," agreeing to take steps to limit climate change such as using renewable energy sources in their production process.
Stunning photos of climate change 49 photos
First published on November 1, 2017 / 5:00 AM
Lil Nas X raids Area 51 in new "Old Town Road" music video
The U.S. Air Force, which conducts tests and trains combat aircraft there, said the event could be "dangerous"


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Appeal after serious collision in the Forest of Dean
Updated News Post
Police are appealing for witnesses and dashcam footage after three people suffered serious injuries in a collision near Blakeney in the Forest of Dean yesterday, Wednesday 19 January.
At around 5pm there was a two-vehicle collision on the A48 Nibley Hill, at the junction with Main Road, which involved a Vauxhall Meriva and an Iveco van.
Police attended along with Gloucestershire Fire and Rescue Service and the South Western Ambulance Service. Several members of the public also assisted at the scene.
Two elderly occupants of the Vauxhall Meriva sustained serious injuries and were taken to Southmead Hospital in Bristol. They remain in hospital.
The driver of the van also suffered serious injuries and remains in hospital.
Road closures were in place overnight while a collision investigation took place and these were lifted this morning, Thursday 20 January.
Investigating officers are appealing for any witnesses, or anyone with dashcam footage, who has not already spoken to police to make contact.
Information can be provided online by completing the following form and referencing incident 347 of 19 January: https://www.gloucestershire.police.uk/tua/tell-us-about/cor/tell-us-about-existing-case-report/
You can also call police on 101.


Packaging-wise, we live in a rectangular world: big box stores with products stacked on square pallets… retail space, measured in square and cubic units… rectangular boxes on shelves, stacked efficiently in rows with no wasted space.
But rectangular boxes are not the only shapes that can stack efficiently. There are lots of other interesting shapes that can do this.
Toblerone's triangular prisms, will fit together snugly in a packing carton. As will the hexagonal prisms of Droste. (2nd time I'm mentioning Droste—see my earlier post about the Droste effect). Add a rectangular toothpaste-tube-box to these two examples and you have the three regular prisms that fit together like three dimensional tiles.
But this is just the tip of the polyhedral iceberg. The real story of close packing starts with spheres.
Maximum interior volume + minimum surface area = the sphere. If that were our only calculation then all packaging should be spherical. Put your "sphere packs" together, however, and right away there are inefficient gaps!
In the produce department: rectangular arrangement = big gaps; triangular/hexagonal arrangement = small gaps.


Don't let your bad habits define you.
November 28, 2016 November 28, 2016 | Jess G.
As many of you guys know I am facilitating the Diabetes Prevention Program over at the YMCA. I am coaching a group of people through lifestyle changes that can hep reduce their risk for developing Type ll Diabetes and I love love love it! It's been really eye opening for me to see just how challenging behavior change can really be. It's also making me do some "checking in" with myself on how I handle some of my own hard to break habits. Last week in class we talked about triggers… those cues in your home or work environment that lead to automatic behaviors. Basically habits… breaking old habits that do not serve us and creating new habits that bring us closer to the person we want to be. There's two ways to tackle a trigger… either avoid it or create a better more positive behavior. Bad habits are tough little suckers.
Humans are creatures of habit. Our brains are wired to create patterns + habits and its so easy to get stuck in a "rut" of doing the same things. Automatically thinking the same thoughts. Making the same excuses. Or telling ourselves the same old story. Remember the days as kids when we had no idea what was in store for us in any given day? We would ask our parents "what are we doing today?" or better yet, we would get lost in an awesome make-believe game and let the fun unfold before us. We were constantly curious. Our minds were forging new neural pathways all the time!
Fast forward to "adulting" and most of us have lost touch with that creative, spontaneous curious side of ourselves. We fall into habits + routines that help us make sense of our busy lives. Habits can be pretty awesome- when they are positive, like some of those discussed in the book The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. But bad habits can be detrimental to our creativity + our health.
– Constantly checking my social media feeds (like literally every 15min). I read that we spend an average of 4 hours every day checking social media feeds. Ugh. Yuck. Barfffff. I could do SO much with 4 hours. Fellow parents of tiny people, ya feel me?
– Waking up to the sounds of my kids waking up. Basically opening my eyes to being needed and not having any time to wake up and set my sights on having a good day. This one is bad. I wake up to the chaos of having little kids instead of meeting it head on with a positive attitude and full cup of coffee already in hand.
– Saying that I am an active person who exercises regularly when really the last time I worked out was last Tuesday! I mean that's an automatic response, thinking and telling people that I am active. I did a little inventory on the amount of exercise I am really getting and it's not great. I am currently not prioritizing exercise!
Ok this one should be easy, right? Just stop looking at it all the time!! But let's back up- why am I always scrolling? What is the trigger or cue that leads me down that path…. well for me its usually boredom, lack of attention and seeing my phone laying in sight. So I'm going to designate a space in my house for screens that is not in common areas. My phone will live there when I'm home and I will have to make an extra set of decisions to seek it out and scroll. If you want more inspiration around this one find out if you need a digital detox! Ok that's good. So boredom + lack of attention are the other triggers… how I have time to be bored is beyond me but my mind is constantly seeking something to do. The lack of attention in our culture is real. The mindfulness movement is gaining traction for good reason. Our minds are running wild like teenagers who just got keys to the new car. Instead of giving in to the feeling of boredom of feeling like I want distraction I am going to try to practice mindfulness in the moment. Here are some ideas for getting present.
Alternate nostril breathing is an awesome one, it helps to balance the right and left sides of the brain while calming the nervous system.
Gabby Bernstein has lots of ideas in her Miracles Now book, easy and quick spiritual practices that you can do in the moment.
Oracle cards: grab a deck and choose a card to help shift your perspective and do some self reflection. I obviously have this horse deck!
Journaling: after you choose a card write down anything that comes up- allow yourself to dream briefly in the morning or set an intention for the day.
Essential Oils: choose a grounding oil like Frankincense or Cedarwood to breathe in a few calming breaths to root yourself before you start the day… if you need something more uplifting or invigorating try Peppermint or any of the citrus oils to boost your mood and awaken our senses Essential oils are great tools to support your mood!
Find a gym with childcare: if you are a full time parent like me find a gym that offers free childcare while you workout… the YMCA is the best!
Dancing like a maniac in your living room: seriously just turn on the tunes and rock on for 15-20min, You will sweat.
Walk: get outside and take a walk- when in doubt there is always your two feet and the great outdoors.
Ok! Bad habits be gone! Enjoy creating new ones that serve you. Remember every choice is a chance to make a change.
Pingback: What is the story you are telling yourself?


Chalets are great for a catered experience, taking away the hassle of organising meals. In a quiet après ski town like Gressoney where the independent restaurant options are fairly small, this simplifies things significantly.
The beautiful Chalet Hotel Valverde is one of our favourites for families, it's fantastically located, adjacent to the Punta Jolanda chairlift, and is practically ski-in ski-out via the Jolanda red run; which is a good stepping stone for those looking for a manageable red.
The Edelboden nursery slope is just 30m away, and has, in the past, provided a number of activities for children including a bouncy castle, tubbing, and tobogganing.
The Chalet is based in La-Trinite, which benefits from being a small village with little traffic, and fantastically close to the slopes. There are two ski hire shops- Jolanda Sport, and David Sport Di- just round the corner, and the nursery slope a 30second walk away. The Castore Lounge is also a short walk away as well, meaning you will be able to venture out in the evening to try something different.


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National register for banned taxi drivers welcomed by Wakefield cabbies union
More than 300 drivers have been banned from trading in the Wakefield district since 2003.
David Spereall
A national register for taxi drivers who've been barred from the trade has been backed by the union representing cabbies in Wakefield.
The government is introducing a UK-wide database to prevent rogue cabbies from getting a licence from a local authority, after being stripped of their right to trade elsewhere.
All local authorities will have access to the database, under government rules.
Wakefield Council, which has refused or revoked more than 300 taxi driver licences since 2003, says the register will make the system more "robust".
And the Wakefield District Private Hire and Hackney Carriage Association has also backed the move, and says it is long overdue.
Association chairman Wajid Ali said: "The register has been a piece of work that's been put together by local authorities, and it's been about two years in the making.
"It's a good thing because it eradicates the bad drivers, and it means everyone knows who is licensing who.
"It should have been done years ago, really."
Until now, the only way councils have known if a driver applying for a licence has been banned elsewhere is if the information is volunteered by the driver themselves.
Wakefield Council's licensing committee will meet to discuss the register next week, and how the local authority will comply with its requirements.
A report going before councillors said that 322 individual records dating back 16 years will be uploaded to the database once it opens.
The report added: "The use of the register will provide a more robust approach to considering applications for a taxi licence and will allow the council to ensure they access significant and relevant intelligence nationwide in determining such applications."
Local Democracy Reporting Service
PFI costs for A1 and M1 link roads in Yorkshire soar by £246m more than expected
Rail operator Northern 'surprised' by plans to strip them of franchise
Castleford Tigers lose to Toronto Wolfpack in Michael Shenton testimonial game
Jonny Margetts is goal hero again as Frickley Athletic end Stamford's run
Layton Swaine's debut goal is not enough for Hemsworth MW
Enjoy some Baroque delicacies at Wakefield Cathedral
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Gordon "Gordy" Knoshal, age 78, of Lake Mills, passed away on Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at his home.
Funeral services will be held on Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 11 am at the Hafemeister Funeral Home in Watertown, with Rev. Stephen W. Welch of the First Congregational United Church of Christ in Watertown officiating. Visitation will be held on Thursday from 10 am until the time of the service. The Hafemeister Funeral Home and Cremation Service of Watertown are serving the family. Online condolences may be made at www.hafemeisterfh.com.
Gordon Gerald Knoshal was born on February 9, 1937 in Montevideo, MN, the son of Frank and Edith (Boyson) Knoshal. In January of 1958 Gordy married Waltrud Reinsch. She preceded him in death in 2001. OnDecember 17, 2004 he married Mary Ann Cahoon at the First Congregational United Church of Christ. He was a member of the United States Army, Military Police, serving with Elvis Presley during the Vietnam War. Gordy had been employed as an engineer most of his life. He was a member of the First Congregational United Church of Christ and the Elks Lodge, both in Watertown. Gordy loved to fish. He enjoyed owning and driving new Lincoln's.
Gordon is survived by his wife Mary Ann of Lake Mills, a daughter, Pamela Weinke of Waterloo, two step children; Susan Stasinski of West Allis and Brian (Lynne) Cahoon of Milwaukee, ten grandchildren, four great-grandchildren, a brother, Dale (Kathy) Knoshal of Montevideo, MN, and a sister, Lavon (William) Hilbrands of Perham, MN, nieces, nephews, other relatives and friends. Gordon was also preceded in death by his parents, a daughter, Nicole Eskridge and a brother, David in infancy.


For the movie and television show lovers from India, there are many sites available on the Internet for free. If you are also wondering about watching latest movies or your favorite television shows from India, which you have missed, then this article lists some of the best and most popular movies & TV sites in India.
Explore the top movies and all television programs that you love to watch on the go! These websites are famous among the movie and television fans from India.
Find the best and most popular Movie and TV related sites for Indian users on the Internet to watch free online movies and television shows.
IMDb.com is the world's most popular website for movie, TV shows and celebrity content. Its an Internet Movie Database (abbreviated IMDb) of information related to latest films, various television programs etc.
SantaBanta.com is another great one stop website for Jokes, SMS, latest Bollywood News, Wallpaper, Games and lots more. You can just log on the this website and enjoy various movie trailers, videos and other stuffs.
BollywoodHungama.com is India's best portal that provides latest Bollywood news, film reviews, latest videos, free songs, movie wallpapers etc. You can get the best of Bollywood movies, reviews, wallpapers etc.
RottenTomatoes.com is a website devoted to film reviews and cinema news. Its the most trusted source of quality content for movies & Television shows, movie reviews, movie trailers, movie showtimes and lots more.
MovieWeb.com is another website for latest movie news, movie trailers, movie reviews and celebrity gossips. Just log on to their website to get the latest movie news, movie trailers, new movies and more for free.
TV.Burrp.com is an Indian online TV guide to find various TV shows, movies, TV channels, TV schedules, TV listings etc. You can also find restaurant reviews, cafes, bars, lounges and nightlife options.
IndiaGlitz.com is another India's popular website for Hindi, Tamil, Telugu, Malayalam, Kannada and various language movie trailers, movie videos, film/ TV actors/actress, wallpapers, movie previews and reviews etc.
PVRCinemas.com is a cinema chain shows. You can get latest movie tickets booked on the go with their brand new app that allows you to check show times for movies, shows and book tickets online.
YuppTV.com is another popular website which provides you to watch live tv shows, live channels and India's favorite tv channels live streaming to watch your favorite tv shows online for free around the world.
IdleBrain.com is a popular Telugu movie website which gives latest Telugu cinema news, Telugu movie reviews, latest star photos, Telugu celebrity interviews, Telugu movie trailers and various Telugu video contents.
Movies.msn.com is a website to find latest news about movie showtimes, movie reviews, latest trailers. Just log on to read reviews, watch free trailers, clips, find movie showtimes, view celebrity photos and lost more.
Movies.IBNLive.com is another popular website that brings all the latest Bollywood news and top breaking news live from around the world. You can get latest movies news, movies headlines, television shows and more.
BookMyShow.com offers latest info on showtimes, movie tickets, live concert tickets and various events calendar. It also features latest movie reviews, various offers and mobile applications for movies.
Movies.com is an ultimate source for new movies, trailers, reviews and has everything you need to know about movies. You can find about new movie releases and get current movie times, search for movie times near you.
Yahoo.Movies.India.co is another popular website to get the latest movie news, watch exclusive India movie trailers to the world of Cinema getting the world class premiers and much more.
NewYorkTimes.Movie.com brings latest movie reviews, movie showtimes, new movie releases, latest movie news and ticket purchase. You can get latest news about theaters, critics' picks, box office review and more.
Entertainment.Time.com/movies is another best and most popular website for movie lovers by Times Entertainment company. It brings all the latest movie news, movie trailers, movie reviews, movie showtimes etc.
NowRunning.com provides latest news on movie showtimes, movie trailers, interviews, parties and premieres, reviews and previews for Indian movies. Get latest videos from Indian cinema in various languages.
Rediff.com/Movies is another India's favorite website for latest movies, Bollywood news, movie reviews, movie trailers. It provides news, reviews, chats, videos, movies, music, celebrities news, box office news and more.
BigFlix.com is a movie on demand service provider owned by Reliance Entertainment. Its India's first movie on demand service website which allows users to stream and download various movies at any time online.
Sify.Movies.com is a popular website dedicated to Indian movies, where you can find latest Bollywood gossip, Hindi, Tamil, Telugu movie news, movie reviews, movie trailers, live events and lots more online.
Hollywood.com is another best and popular website for movies, TV, and celebrities related contents. Its a place to break down the best movies, celebrity trivia, and know where your favorite child stars are now.
Whatsonindia.com is a great website for latest TV Channel Guide, TV Program Schedules. You can get complete TV channel guide for various programs or TV listings of different languages and lots more form India.
Those are probably some of the best and most popular movie and TV related websites in India, which are live on the Internet for Indian movie and television serial lovers from around the globe. Some of these sites on the web are great place for latest movie trailers, review, preview, show-times near you and other celebrity related news.
Please tell me, if you have got information about other great places for movies and TV shows in India, via comment section.


text:
Householder v. A. Philip Randolph Inst., et al
Case #: 18A1165
Judge(s)/Court Below: 373 F Supp 3d 978, 1010 (SD Ohio 2019)
Whether partisan gerrymandering cases lack justiciability and, if not, what standards govern such claims.
After Ohio's Governor signed into law a plan to redraw congressional and state legislative districts in 2011, multiple parties claimed the apportionment plan constituted partisan gerrymandering that maximized the number of Republican congressional and legislative representatives in violation of the First Amendment and Equal Protection Clause. A three-judge federal district court held that Ohio's congressional map constituted an unconstitutional partisan gerrymander and required Ohio's General Assembly to repeal and replace its congressional map based on lower court cases under review by the U.S. Supreme Court. Republican legislators filed two separate emergency applications requesting that the Court stay the district court's injunction pending appeal, or vacate and remand the district court's decision once the Court gave holdings on the lower court cases relied upon by the district court. Petitioners argued that the Court would likely note probable jurisdiction based on a historic lack of refusal and that a fair prospect existed that the Court would vote to reverse or vacate the district court's decision based on the likelihood of the Court deeming partisan gerrymandering constitutional or that claims challenging partisan gerrymanders lack justiciability, or based on the presentation of a new test if the Court recognized the ability to challenge partisan gerrymandering. In a summary disposition order, the Supreme Court consolidated Petitoner's writ with that of intervenor-defendants, Chabot v. A. Philip Randolph Inst. et al, No. 18A1288 (U.S.), seeking direct vacated the district court's judgment, and remanded to the district court for further consideration in light of Rucho v. Common Cause, 588 U.S. ___ (2019). VACATED AND REMANDED.


text:
#attheedge
Time to focus as Malaysia goes off the edge
Jahabar Sadiq, Editor (Commentary)
themalaysianinsider.com
Time to focus as Malaysia goes off the edgeThe Malaysian Insider
(July 25): Before you think of another catchy hashtag, decide to wear black tomorrow or buy a candle for a vigil to protest against the three-month suspension order for The Edge Weekly and The Edge Financial Daily, consider extending your outrage to the original issue – the RM42 billion debt racked up by 1Malaysia Development Bhd (1MDB) and the unexplained RM2.67 billion that found its way to Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak's private bank accounts.
Reports on this two issues have cropped up and were also exposed elsewhere – The Sarawak Report blog, The Wall Street Journal (WSJ), The New York Times and even Singapore's Straits Times.
So why ban The Edge Weekly and The Edge Financial Daily for three months, on the excuse that both publications' reporting of 1MDB were "prejudicial or likely to be prejudicial to public order, security or likely to alarm public opinion or is likely to be prejudicial to public and national interests".
How can a business weekly with a circulation of 25,000 or a business daily with a circulation of not more than 15,000 be "prejudicial or likely to be prejudicial to public order, security or likely alarm to public opinion or is likely to be prejudicial to public and national interests?"
Why is Putrajaya resorting to such an illogical ban when those named have not begun to clear their names through the legal process? The WSJ has yet to be sued. Neither has The Edge Weekly, The Edge Financial Daily or Sarawak Report been sued.
The only thing that has happened is to ban the two publications and to block Sarawak Report, which has not quite worked as well as the authorities would like Malaysians to believe.
A friendly reminder that the Communications and Multimedia Act 1998 and a host of other laws governing online publications in respect of publishing misinformation have backfired when the Malaysian Communications and Multimedia Commission (MCMC) basically admitted it has yet to verify if the Sarawak Report articles are actually false.
Which leaves us with the fact that the authorities are just bolting the stable doors after the horses have run off. The news is out there, still not denied, not refuted, except to stick to the playbook that it is all part of a political conspiracy to unseat the government of the day.
A conspiracy that involves – depending on who you listen to or to what some social political bloggers dream of – a former prime minister, politicians, media barons, foreign newspapers and bloggers.
But none of those who think up of such conspiracy theories has an answer to how 1MDB spent RM42 billion or the origin and destination of monies which found their way into the prime minister's bank accounts in 2013.
All we know is what the government tells us. That 1MDB has some RM51 billion in assets – land, power and water plants – to cover its debts and that the prime minister did not gain personally from the private bank accounts.
Right. So why the need to restructure 1MDB? Why the need for others to pay off its bonds? Why can't 1MDB redeem its "units" in Singapore?
Why doesn't the prime minister explain if it is true nearly US$700 million, including RM42 million purportedly from the government-owned SRC International Sdn Bhd, went into his accounts? Where was most of the money from? Why is government money in an account under his name? Where did the money go?
How is it that Bank Negara Malaysia or the bank did not spot such a huge sum of money flowing into the accounts? Why are our graft-busters arresting a random set of people? Why are some people barred from leaving the country?
All this should be the major part of our outrage, not just The Edge Weekly or The Edge Financial Daily getting suspended for three months. That is just the symptom of a larger issue.
The issue of trust. Or the lack of it.
The government can ban newspapers and block websites. But it cannot ban thinking, it cannot ban the sharing of information and news reports about the issues of the day.
That is what we Malaysians must do now. To think it through, to discuss the issues that matter and share it as widely as possible among friends and foes.
Until the government explains and answers all the questions posed by The Edge Weekly, The Edge Financial Daily, journalists the world over, local politicians and the investigating authorities.
We need to focus on issues which ail our nation, or just like the powers that be, we will go off the edge. – July 26, 2015.
* Jahabar Sadiq runs The Malaysian Insider.


text:
New Album: John Lodge, The Royal Affair and After
Review: Holeyboard Pedalboard
Bassist Roland Pritzger – Why Is Music Important (The Panel Experiment) by Brent-Anthony Johnson
B.A. Johnson
Photo By Rosemary Pritzger
Who are you, and what do you do?
My name is Roland Pritzger. I do a lot of things! But, I've been playing bass longer than anything else I do!
Who are your primary musical influences?
When I began playing the bass guitar, my primary influences were bassist Victor Wooten, in addition to the music of Stevie Ray Vaughn, Stevie Wonder, and Michael Jackson! I also really like the sound of bands! So, Red Hot Chili Peppers and Tower Of Power were also early musical influences. Lately, I've been listening to groups like Lettuce, and I've been listening to Trevor Hall and several singer-songwriters.
Can you tell us about your earliest musical listening and performance experiences? Also, what projects are you participating in lately?
My first memory of enjoying music is reaching way up above where I could actually see, and putting the record player's needle on the beginning of Beethoven's "The Emperor's Concerto", and standing in front of the record player… conducting the music! I might have been 3-years-old!
I am currently playing with the band Blinddog Smokin', and I've also been collaborating with the great Otis Rush.
What have you been listening to musically, in the past 12 months that has enhanced the way you think about music and your craft?
As odd as it sounds… Weird Al! I've been listening to how he mimics people and the subtle difference from the original songs he parodies has made me look at sounds and instrumentation differently, and, I hope, more creatively.
If we wanted to listen to you, which recordings would you suggest? Along with that, which recordings are you proudest of and why?
Blinddog Smokin's "Up From The Tracks" (the first release with a real producer) is something I'm very proud of.
I recorded an entire album's worth of material on an instrument that was making background noises that we didn't hear until the mixing phase, the first time! So, I later had to re-record all the bass parts. The tracking only took about 75-minutes. But, it is some of my finest work! Nothing fancy. Just laying it down like a bass player is supposed to!
How does your personal musical voice directly relate to the function of the basses? Also, what are your main instruments?
While the bass guitar wasn't m first instrument, it is now my main instrument! So, after 22-years of focusing on the bass, I see the fretboard when I think of voicing, or when I'm trying to learn melodies without an instrument in m hands. I love that bass lines are a construction of melody, harmony, and groove! It is that musical intersection and hybridity that makes being a bassist so rewarding to me!
Describe your musical composition process.
It usually begins by hearing a random bass line or melody in my head. Then, I try to get to an instrument as quickly as possible to flesh out that melody, or line, on the bass. From there it is a process of building a drum groove, while adding changes, parts, and hooks until I have a presentable piece of music.
How does music affect your culture and immediate environment?
My living space is full of musical instruments! Also, music must accompany me during all my drives, and my workouts. Otherwise, I feel empty and bored.
What would you be, if not a professional musician?
HMMM… Philanthropist/ Entrepreneur… or a racecar driver.
What is the greatest sacrifice you've ever made while in the practice of being a musician, and how did that sacrifice affect you?
When I began touring with a band in my early twenties, I had no health or nutrition knowledge. So, after a couple years of near-constant roadwork I was depressed, overweight, and generally unhealthy. When the touring finally started slowing down, and I saw what I needed to do for my life, I began exercising regularly and eating well.
Describe your standing practice regimen. Also, what technical (and musical) aspects of your playing are you currently working on?
I have been working on songwriting and theory for the past several months. So, I have been playing more guitar and drums. I don't, unfortunately, have a regular practice regimen at this time. But, that reminds me that I should probably put one together!
What does music, and being a musician, mean to you – at the deepest level of your being?
Music is expression and execution, interpretation, enjoyment, relaxation… At my deepest level, I'm just proud and humbled to able to make music!
How important is it to understand the language of music?
Well, in order to truly express yourself articulately you need to know the Language! However, there are many people gifted with the ability to express deep emotion with no true musical knowledge whatsoever. So, there are many variables of musical understanding…
How do you collect the series of seemingly random influences and articulate them through music?
All the influences become a part of me and they come out naturally and without conscious effort… most of the time!
Can music ever truly become commercial? Why, or why not?
I can't think of a time when the need to make music for a specific project made the music worse. That would be how I define "commercial music", I guess: if the fact that it's for money makes the music worse, then it's commercial. Whatever project I'm working on I always do my best to make each song the best it can be. I work hard to feel and understand the personality of each song, and I do my best in my role as a bass player to let that personality breathe and flourish. That's why I love playing music – to get lost in the expression, groove, and common goal of making a song great with the other musicians, to the point of being "unconscious" – as they say in basketball. That feeling is deeply spiritual for me and it's so good that I want everyone to feel I and I feel bad for people who never have that experience.
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New report reveals 13 solutions to air pollution that can help reduce pollution levels by 40% nationally. A new study by Louisiana State University (LSU) points out towards 13 measures that can reduce air pollution levels by almost 40 percent and avoid nine lakh premature deaths caused by air pollution in India every year. The implementation of these measures may also lead to 50-60 percent reduction of wintertime PM2.5 levels across North India, including Delhi.