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Fellowship of Catholic Scholars Canada
The Divine Comedy and Robinson Crusoe - Dr. Christine Schintgen
2007 Summer-Fall - A peer-reviewed article from an Issue of the Academic Journal "Fedelitas" of The Fellowship of Catholic Scholars
The Divine Comedy and Robinson Crusoe: an Exploration of Two Journeys of Conversion in the works of Dante and Daniel Defoe
(A talk delivered to Madonna House, 24 January 2007—St. Francis de Sales)
Dr Christine Schintgen
What do Dante and Defoe have in common? There is a connection, apart from the fact that their names both start with "D." Both Dante, writing in the early 1300s, and Defoe, writing in the early 1700s, created stories that involved a journey—a literal journey. In Dante's case, the descent is through hell, where he sees the torments that the damned have brought upon themselves through their choice for something other than God; then up Mount Purgatory, where he witnesses the purification of souls from the seven deadly sins, and then up through the ten spheres of heaven, culminating in the beatific vision—a glimpse of the Divinity who is "the love that moves the sun and the other stars." In Defoe's case, the journey is across the world, from England to a desert island off the coast of South America, where he resides for 28 years, before being rescued by pirates.
So far, nothing surprising. But the further connection is that both works were intended as allegories: that is, the literal journey stands for a metaphorical journey—a spiritual journey. For Dante, the spiritual journey is very close to the
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Journal of the Fellowship of Catholic Scholars (Canada) Summer-Fall 2007
literal one. It's the story of the soul's conversion from sin— represented by the "dark wood" in which Dante is lost at thebeginning of the poem—to beatitude—represented by the mystical rose in the highest heaven, in which the souls of the blessed blissfully contemplate God for all eternity. Dante wrote explicitly in a letter to his patron Can Grande della Scala about how his poem was meant to be read as a spiritual allegory of the Christian soul's voyage from captivity to sin, to liberation through redemption.
Now, for Daniel Defoe, too, the physical journey is meant to represent a spiritual one. That's perhaps surprising to somemodern readers, because we tend to think of Robinson Crusoe as simply an adventure story—a great adventure story, but nothing more than that. In the Preface to Robinson Crusoe, however, the author has the fictional editor of the supposedly "historical" work say: "The story is told with modesty, with seriousness, and with a religious application of events to the uses to which wise men always apply them, viz. to the instruction of others by this example, and to justify and honour the wisdom of Providence in all the variety of our circumstances, let them happen how they will." In other words, the tale is written to show how God works everything to the best, even in seemingly desperate situations. Robinson Crusoe's journey from England to the desert island and back, is really the story of a man's journey from wicked neglect of God to dependence on Providence and faith in the salvation achieved for us by Christ.
The allegorical level of Robinson Crusoe is not so hard to find, after all, if we go back to the original text (there are somany abridged and popularized versions that it's never safe to assume that that is what we have read or not), we find
passages such as the following, which occurs about a third of the way into the novel, after Crusoe has happened upon thephrase "Call on Me, and I will deliver you" in the bible which he retrieved from the beached ship he had been voyaging in:
Now I began to construe the words mentioned above, "Call on Me, and I will deliver you," in a different sense from whatI had ever done before; for then I had no notion of anything being called deliverance but my being delivered from the captivity I was in; for though I was indeed at large in the place, yet the island was certainly a prison to me, and that in the worst sense in the world; but now I learned to take it in another sense. Now I looked back upon my past life with such horror, and my sins appeared so dreadful, that my soul sought nothing of God but deliverance from the load of guilt that bore down all my comfort. As for my solitary life, it was nothing; I did not so much as pray to be delivered from it or think of it; it was all of no consideration in comparison to this. And I add this part here, to hint to whoever shall read it, that whenever they come to a true sense of things, they will find deliverance from sin a much greater blessing than deliverance from affliction. (151)
Modern readers will perhaps be astonished at the explicitly religious nature of the tale, and the extent to which Defoe's
journey, then, is symbolic of a greater journey—the journey from sin to redemption. But readers from Defoe's time werereminded of the spiritual meaning of the work by the publication of the third volume of the novel in 1720. (There were three volumes: the first volume is what we normally read today; the second volume, entitled The Further Adventures of Robinson Crusoe, was published with the first in 1719.) The third volume, entitled Serious Reflections during the Life and Surprising Adventures of Robinson Crusoe, with His Vision of the Angelick World, is a spiritual reflection on all the adventures that have taken place in the first two volumes, presenting the whole story as an illustration of the need to cast oneself upon the rock of faith and find deliverance in Christ.
Now that I have, I hope, established a similarity between Dante and Defoe in terms of the general purpose of their respective works and how the authors intended them to be understood, I want to move to the main purpose of my talk,which is to show how they are different. Dante's journey of conversion is different from Crusoe's journey of conversionbecause Dante is Catholic and Daniel Defoe is Presbyterian. I'd like to consider four ways in which these differences arefelt.
First, when we look at how each journey is carried out, we notice a profound difference in terms of the role of other people in accomplishing the journey. I'll start with Defoe and then move backwards to Dante. For Defoe, the journey is essentially solitary. "Now wait a minute!" you'll say. What about Friday? Well, indeed, what about Friday? One of the striking things we realize when we actually read the book, as opposed to merely hearing about it, is that Friday is much
less prominent in the novel than in the popularized version. For one thing, he only appears two-thirds of the way into the novel. For another, Crusoe always keeps a certain distance from him, in terms of their social relationship. That's true from the beginning of their encounter, in fact from the very first moment that Crusoe thinks of rescuing Friday from the cannibals who have kidnapped him and dragged him to the island. Here's the passage: as he sees Friday being chased by his captors, he reflects: "It came now very warmly upon my thoughts, and indeed irresistibly, that now was my time to get me a servant, and perhaps a companion, or assistant; and that I was called plainly by Providence to save this poor creature's life; I immediately ran down the ladders with all possible expedition, [and] fetched my two guns, for they were both but at the foot of the ladders..."(318). Crusoe does indeed save Friday, and in return, Friday "takes him by the foot, and sets his foot upon his head, in token of swearing to be his slave"(320). Crusoe tells him to get up, and is kind to him, but later in the same paragraph refers to him as "my savage." There's a clear hierarchical relationship between Crusoe, and Friday, and Crusoe is not on the lower side of the equation. So although Crusoe does have another person along on his journey experience, this other person is not his guide—if anything, it's the other way around, on the whole. Crusoeteaches Friday his catechism and gets him to give up nasty things like eating other people. Indeed, Friday's very name shows Friday's indebtedness to Crusoe; Crusoe tells us that "I made him know his name should be Friday, which was the day I saved his life; I called him so for the memory of the time; I likewise taught him to say Master, and then let him know that was to be my name..."(324). No, Crusoe's only real guide and companion on his journey is not a
human one: it is his bible, the only really trustworthy guide, after all, for Calvinists (Presbyterians are essentially Calvinists) who profess the Protestant belief in Scripture alone as the only reliable guide in the spiritual life—Sola Scriptura. Robinson Crusoe, after his conversion process has begun thanks to his reading of the bible, comes to see solitude as a blessing:
"Thus I lived mighty comfortably, my mind being entirely composed by resigning to the will of God and throwing myself wholly upon the disposal of His Providence. This made my life better than sociable, for when I began to regret the want of conversation, I would ask myself whether thus conversing mutually with my own thoughts and, as I hope I may say, with even God Himself [...] was not better than the utmost enjoyment of human society in the world" (212).
For Defoe, conversion is an essentially solitary process.
How different the situation is with Dante! Anyone familiar with the Divine Comedy recognizes immediately that Dante- the-pilgrim has a number of guides, and all of them are superior to him. First, there is Virgil, the pagan Roman poet, who was sent by Beatrice, who was sent by Lucy, who was sent by Our Lady herself to rescue Dante from the snares of sin. In Paradise, there is Beatrice herself, the Florentine woman with whom Dante was in love for nearly all of his life. And then St. Bernard of Clairvaux, a most fitting leader for the upper stratisphere which is the dwelling place of Mary, to whom St. Bernard had such a great devotion. From the beginning, Dante recognizes his humble status vis-à-vis these travel-guides and mentors. Even Virgil, who has not baptized, has a dignity which Dante reverences; Dante calls Virgil "maestro"—master—revealing an exactly
opposite relationship to that of Crusoe and Friday. And Beatrice... Can anyone doubt how Dante stands in relation to Beatrice? She is so high above him that he marvels that she condescends to look at him; but when she does, and she casts her radiant smile on him, the effect is breathtaking (Purgatorio canto xxxi: 139-144):
Parnassus' waters, of its height,
genius fail tongueput by your veil...
O splendor of the eternal living light! Who that has drunk deep of
Or grown pale in the shadow
Would not, still, feel his burdened Attempting to describe in any
How you appeared when you
Now in case we were tempted to think that Beatrice herself is some kind of deity—some kind of goddess with her radiant beauty—Dante makes it clear that the dazzling light Beatrice send forth is a reflection of God's light. Beatrice reflects the glory of God through her fidelity, grace, and holiness, much as Our Lady does. The point, then, is that Dante's guidesserve as a reminder of the Catholic doctrine of the communion of saints—the sense that we are never alone on our journey. We always travel in the company of all the other members of the Body of Christ: the Church suffering, the Church militant, and the Church triumphant. It is true that Virgil does not fit into that category as a non-baptized person, but we'll talk about his more specific role a little
further on. In any case, for Dante, conversion always somehow takes place in communion with the saints.
Now, at this point someone might object—but what about solitude? Don't Catholics believe in that too? Can't someone grow closer to God alone? Is the desert island a bad model for the experience of conversion? Well, for an answer to that, let's turn to one of the best writers on the desert island experience—the desert experience—the poustinia experience—Catherine Doherty. In her spiritual classic, Poustinia, Catherine does write that the world needs people who will go into "real solitude" and "listen to God's speech in his wondrous, terrible, gentle, loving, all-embracing silence"(216). But, as you know very well, Catherine never loses sight of the need for real communion with others. Solitude is both possible because of, and experienced for, others. In the same book, she writes, "To reach the beatific vision you must reach union with each other. In forming a family, a community of love, you have to accept the cross— embrace it gloriously and willingly"(87). The journey of conversion, then, from a Catholic viewpoint, is not, in the final analysis, a solitary one.
II. Time
So, we've looked at one major difference between Dante and Defoe in their presentation of the journey of conversion—namely, the role of other people. A second important difference I'd like to discuss is the significance of time in relation to the journey.
For both heroes, time has a special significance. After Crusoe lands on the island, he takes care to mark the passing of each day on a post: "Upon the sides of this square
post I cut every day a notch with my knife, and every seventh notch was as long again as the rest, and every first day of the month as long again as that long one; and thus I kept my calendar, or weekly, monthly, and yearly reckoning of time"(98). Marking time is an important ritual, a way of giving form and context to an experience that is otherwise chaotic and wild.
Crusoe accords special significance to the day on which he arrived on the island: September 30th, which also happens tobe his birthday. He tells us: "The same day of the year I was born on, viz., the 30th of September, that same day I had my life so miraculously saved twenty-six years after, when I was cast on shore in this island; so that my wicked life and mysolitary life began both on a day"(209). This appreciation of the significance of time gives richness to Crusoe'sexperience, and is a pleasing detail.
We should notice, though, that the significance of time always relates back to Crusoe himself, not to some reality outside of and bigger than himself. A case in point is what happens with Sundays. At first, as we've seen, he kept track of and observed Sundays.
Not much later, however, we're told that unfortunately he lost track of which day was Sunday: "Note: I soon neglected my keeping Sundays, for, omitting my mark for them on my post, I forgot which was which"(112). We sense that timeonly has significance to the extent that man is conscious of that significance and observes it. The most astonishingexample of that is Crusoe's diary entry for December 25th: "Rain all day" (116). That's it. No 'Merry Christmas'. Nothing. Just "Rain all day." While time has significance for Defoe in relation to the spiritual journey, then, that
significance is dependent on the individual's recognition of it, and indeed relates back entirely to him.
In total contrast, Dante's journey of conversion takes place in the context of time which is laden with significance whether he is conscious of it or not, and which ultimately points, not to him, but to Christ. We call this phenomenon the liturgical year. Dante's descent into hell begins on Good Friday: he enters into the realm of the dead on the very day on which Christ himself died; his journey there continues throughout Holy Saturday, the day on which Christ himself descended into hell. Dante emerges on Easter Sunday morning, climbs up Mount Purgatory, and ascends the various circles of heaven during Easter week, entering into the fullness of Christ's resurrection. In other words, his journey towards salvation is accomplished in time, a time that bears the stamp of Christ's saving action whether Dante seizes that significance or not. Christ has left his footprints on the sands of time, and Dante is following in those footsteps. The soul's journey of conversion, then, for Dante, takes place in time, and that time is inextricably bound up with the life of the Church, and thus the life of Christ.
III. Reason
A third difference, which I'll touch on briefly, is the role of reason in the journey of conversion. For Crusoe, despite the emphasis on reason that characterizes his period, the age of enlightenment, the human person is ultimately totally depraved and wretched, so that God's saving action operates absolutely by grace on those whom he has (seemingly abitrarily) chosen as his elect. In contrast, the Catholic view represented by Dante suggests that reason can serve as a
preparation for grace—a preparation for revelation. Virgil, the noble pagan, is a living (well, actually he's dead, but apersonal) symbol of the dignity of the faculty of reason. Grace builds on nature, and reason is that part of our nature that, while not sufficient for salvation, nevertheless has a worthy role to play in the spiritual journey towards salvation. Reason, represented by Virgil, prepares us for revelation, and for grace, both of which are represented by the lovely Beatrice.
IV. Virtue
The fourth and final idea—closely related to the last one—is the idea of virtue. In good Protestant fashion, Defoe's novel emphasizes "hard work" (he tells us that "I was not idle and [...] I spared no pains to bring to pass whatever appeared necessary for my comfortable support..."[239])—but he carefully avoids any suggestion of "works" as a necessary means to salvation. In fact, he is so careful in this respect that we don't sense much of a transformation of his moral character at all. The craving for adventure that has been his downfall since the beginning of the novel doesn't end after his conversion—actually it continues even beyond the confines of this novel and spills over into the sequel, the second volume of the series. Indeed, at the end of the first volume, Crusoe admits that he is "inured to a wandering life"(479), and his attachments to other people are superficial and fleeting. Take, for example, his description of his family life upon his return to England:
In the meantime, I in part settled myself here; for first of all I married, and that not either to my disadvantage or dissatisfaction, and had three children,
two sons and one daughter. But my wife dying, and my nephew coming home with good success from a voyage to Spain, my inclination to go abroad and his importunity prevailed and engaged me to go in his ship, as a private trader to the East Indies. This was in the year 1694. (480)
Notice the very passing reference to his wife—the only reference in the novel. We don't feel that Robinson Crusoe has, with his conversion, immensely increased his capacity for tender loving care—one of the signs of virtue. Indeed, according to Calvinist theology, there is really very little incentive for Crusoe to improve his moral life, since "works" have no effect on one's salvation; they are at best mere tokens of one's already elect status.
With Dante, again, the case is different. Conversion of soul is unthinkable without conversion of heart. The very first thing Dante has to do along his journey of conversion is to recognize sin for what it is: loathsome, vile, and hideous—in other words, to allow his heart to be formed in such a way that he actually hates what is evil. At first, he feels so sorry for the souls of the damned that he misses the point that what they experience in hell is really just the logical extension of what they chose in life. When he sees the souls of the lustful tossed about perpetually on the winds, and hears the tragic story of the adulterers Paolo and Francesca, for example, he tells us that "I swooned for pity like as I were dying,/ And, as a dead man falling, down I fell"(v. 141- 142). But later, under the tutelage of Virgil, he comes to see the unreasonableness of his position, and he rejects one of
the souls of the wrathful—allegorically rejecting the sin itself, exclaiming "Accursed spirit, do thou remain and rot!"(viii. 38). Virgil praises him, saying "'Blessed is the womb that bare thee'"(44), showing that Dante is growing in blessedness as he learns to reject sin.
As he progresses along the path of conversion, it is not enough for Dante to reject sin objectively: he must allow it to be purged from his own heart, in the arduous but fruitful struggle up Mount Purgatory. As he passes through each of the cornices representing the seven deadly sins (in order, pride, envy, wrath, sloth, avarice, gluttony and lust), he atones for his participation in each of these, and an angel wipes a P (for peccatum, sin) off of his head at the exit of each stage.
Even this purgation, however, is merely a preparation for what is most important: the inculcation of virtue in his heart, which is another way of saying the increase of love. As Dante ascends the circles of heaven, he beholds first-hand what love looks like. In Circle 4, for example, he encounters the Doctors of the Church, where he hears St. Thomas Aquinas (the Dominican) sing the praises of St. Francis; and St. Bonaventure (the Franciscan) describe St. Dominic with great reverence. He meets the warriors of god; the just; and the contemplatives, whose first representative, Peter Damian, rushes to greet him out of overflowing love. Translator and critic John Ciardi explains, "Speaking in a trance of bliss, spinning for joy in the rapture of its vision, yet moved by heavenly Love to share its joy with Dante, the soul explains that it is experiencing a vision of God"(p. 784).
Through witnessing the splendour of souls given over to the love of God, and beholding the luminous glory of their faces, Dante's own soul is transformed. As Dante nears the end of his journey, he is questioned on faith, hope, and love, to ensure that he has absorbed the lessons that the pilgrimage was meant to impart. St. John the Beloved tests him on love (how's that for a pop quiz?), asking him, "to what [his] soul clings fast"(xxvi. 7), and he answers sincerely, "The Good which in this Court all longing sates/ Alpha and Omega is of every text/ Which love in accents soft or loud dictates"(13-15)—in other words, "to God." By the time Dante's journey is over, he has learned, not only to believe with his head, but to long with all his heart, for God, knowing that for this longing to be fulfilled, he must first have been cleansed of all sin, and readied himself to put into practice the virtues that allow God to dwell in us.
So, in conclusion, I'd like to suggest that both Dante's Divine Comedy and Daniel Defoe's Robinson Crusoe are great works, works that have immense value in suggesting for us what the journey of conversion is like. Defoe's novel inspires us with a vision of solitude in which one discovers God, and realizes that His deliverance is really the only deliverance that matters. Dante's poem, though, presents an ultimately richer conception of the journey of conversion. He, too, leaves the familiar world behind, and embarks upon a journey of discovery, both of his true self, and of God. In fact, his journey into the underworld could be understood allegorically as a representation of what Catherine called the "pilgrimage of the Spirit," in which one "journeys inward to meet the Triune God that dwells within"(Poustinia 27). Dante's journey, as we have seen, is distinct from Crusoe's in that Dante's journey involves the
help of the Church, as opposed to rugged invidualism; it takes place in time stamped with God's significance rather than merely human significance; it allows for the role of reason; and it involves real conversion of heart and increase in virtue. [There are other important differences too, such as the role of the sacraments and of beauty in bringing about'transformation in Christ,' but I didn't choose to focus on those aspects.] I'll simply conclude by saying that although both works of literature contain illuminating depictions of the journey of conversion, Dante's is better, because it contains more truth.
Dante Alighieri. The Divine Comedy. 1321. Trans John Ciardi. New York: New American Library, 2003.
-----. Trans. Dorothy Sayers. Harmondsworth: Penguin Classics, 1962.
Defoe, Daniel. Robinson Crusoe. 1719. New York: Aladdin Classics, 2001.
Doherty, Catherine. Poustinia: Christian Spirituality of the East for Western Man. Notre Dame, Indiana: Ave Maria Press, 1975.
Masturbation: A Catholic Moral and Pastoral Approach by Dr. Paul Flaman
Pan Tadeusz: A New English Translation in Prose of the Epic Polish Story by Christopher A. Zakrzewski
CALL For PAPERS for the Next Fellowship of Catholic Scholars Canada Conference
The Fellowship of Catholic Scholars Canada Conference Keynote speakers: TBA with Dinner Banquet and Holy Mass An Exciting Event to Join Some of the Brightest Catholic Intellects of North America! NEW Date October 21-22, 2022 Location: Newman Theological College, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Conference Theme: Religion in the Public Square: the Gifts, the Challenges The Fellowship of Catholic Scholars Canada invites proposals for papers for a conference on the theme of Religion in the Public Square: the Gifts, the Challenges. As the freedom of religion is being increasingly undermined in Canada through decisions made by the Supreme Court and laws passed by the federal government, particularly under the Liberals, we are challenged to respond in defense of our religion and its values. We are seeking papers by serious and judicious scholars who appreciate the challenges Canadians are facing and who can suggest responses to them. Papers may approach the topic from any number of disciplines,
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56 October 2, 2016 October 1, 2016
Drinking interview with Cinderella Park So-dam
by tineybeanie
Park So-dam (Cinderella and the Four Knights) has made her stamp as a rising Chungmuro star at the young age of 25. Nicknamed "The Jewel of Indie Films," she has been praised by critics for showing a talent beyond her years. Recently, she gave a drinking interview where she talked about carving a path for herself in the Korean entertainment business.
Her first commercial film debut was in last year's The Silenced, where she played a student at an all-girls sanatorium. But her official breakout performance was in Black Priests with Kim Yoon-seok and Kang Dong-won, where she was a deeply troubled schoolgirl possessed by an evil demon. With more than 5.5 million viewers, she left a strong impression on the audience, and at the 52nd Baeksang Arts Awards, she received the newcomer prize for her performance.
However, it hasn't been all rainbows and butterflies for the rising actress. After starting off with small cable drama Because It's the First Time, KBS's Beautiful Mind was her first foray into Big 3 prime time dramas as a main lead. But the production had its share of trouble behind the scenes, the drama was cut by two episodes, and her acting was criticized as well.
Her follow-up drama (which she technically shot first), Cinderella and the Four Knights, just ended its run on tvN. The rom-com was 100 percent pre-produced, so it's been a while since she finished filming. She reminisced with a smile and said that it was one of the most cheerful sets she's been on: "People were envious of me for receiving the love of four men. And yes, receiving all that love, all at once, made me very happy. When else would I get this opportunity?" (Laughs.)
Q: This is an official interview question. How much can you drink?
A: Nowadays, there's not much opportunity to go out. I can probably drink a bottle of soju. Truthfully, I haven't drunk that much recently. Usually, I just have a can of beer.
Q: Do you have any drinking habits?
A: Drinking habits? My friends say my speech slows down. I think it's because even in the haze of alcohol, I try to convey my point as accurately as possible.
Q: Whom do you consider your closest drinking buddies?
A: I usually meet up with my high school friends. The actor friends I've made through work, we can't meet often because of conflicting schedules. If there's an event, maybe we'll meet up. It's easier to meet up with neighborhood friends. I don't like to venture out too far from my house.
Q: At the 52nd Baeksang Arts Awards, you took home the newcomer's award.
A: Those around me complimented me for Black Priests, so I thought "It would be nice to receive [an award]." However, I didn't think I'd get it. Even more than going up to get the award, I was nervous about going to the ceremony itself. I wore a dress for the first time in a long while, and I was anxious. I wasn't very relaxed at that time because I had just finished filming for Cinderella the day before, and the next day I was supposed to go down to start filming for Beautiful Mind. But because the Baeksang Arts Awards encompasses both the film and television industries, I was grateful to meet many diverse people. It was like being on MBC's Radio Star all over again.
Q: What was your first thought, when they announced your name for the award?
A: "How am I supposed to get up there?" The stage was really long. After my name was called, actress Eom Ji-won, director Lee Jun-ik, and a couple of comedian sunbaenims kept on congratulating me. And Black Priests's director, Jang Jae-hyun, came to mind. He was really brave for trying out that type of film. If it wasn't for him having faith in me until the end, I would have lived out my twenties without cutting my hair this short. I'm thankful to him for all of his direction.
Q: Did you get a lot of congratulatory messages from people around you?
A: I got a lot of calls, but I had to get ready to start filming Beautiful Mind right after the awards ceremony. I had to memorize lines. It was a couple days later when I finally got to return all the messages.
Q: Who was the one person you remember who made an impression while congratulating you?
A: Right after receiving the award, I called Director Jang Jae-hyun and Kim Yoon-seok sunbaenim. I wanted to call them right away because I was so thankful to them. Yoon-seok sunbaenim especially gave me good advice. I should be the one to reach out, but he always takes care of me, and even a couple days ago, he called me first. Even though he made me cry a couple times when we were acting together, he is someone that I admire as both an actor and a person. If I had to film all by myself in that attic room, I think I would have gone crazy. However, with the support of all the experienced actors, we were able to finish filming while having fun.
Q: At the awards ceremony, you made this comment: "Through Black Priests, I met Young-shin, and it gave me both headache and happiness."
A: I met Young-shin, my [Black Priests] character, at the audition. From the first time, my head hurt. As soon as I got there, I was told to wear a wig, shout out foreign words, roar like a lion, and bark like a dog… From that moment, I thought this role was not like any others. Also, I was afraid to shave my head. This was a genre I had never tried, and acting the part of a 5000-year-old evil spirit was difficult. I didn't have confidence in my acting, so I did whatever the director told me to try. I used all the different skills I learned in school for this role. So when we finished filming, I had no regrets. It was cathartic.
Q: You won out an audition process of 2000:1 for the role of Young-shin.
A: I went through four rounds of the audition process. I didn't know there were 2000 people trying out. At the time, Black Priests had made headlines for auditioning newbie actresses who were willing to shave their heads. "They're not really going to shave my head. Are they?" was my thought process, but at the second round, they told us to put on the wig, and I realized they were actually going to make us do it. When I put on the wig, the people there complimented me, "It looks really good on you," and I was in a daze. I'm not someone with striking looks, and with long hair, I could have easily blended in with the crowd. But the director who saw me at the second round of auditions said, "This girl has a unique aura." I think the short-hair wig changed my fate in the audition process.
Q: How many times have you seen the movie?
A: I saw it in theaters after it was released. My friend said she couldn't see my eyes properly in the film at the movie premiere, and said she wanted to see it again. Even then, I didn't quite see it as an audience member. However, when my relatives came over recently, I saw it on DVD, and I was able to see it from a different perspective. Since it's been almost a year since it was filmed, I felt more distanced from my character.
Q: If you were to compare The Silenced and Black Priests?
A: In The Silenced, I had a different type of nervousness than in Black Priests. My character Young-deok in The Silenced was very important to the plot. Depending on what she did, the mood of the film and the characters would change. Since it was my first time in a main role, I was understandably anxious. Two to three weeks before going into filming, I was cast. So I really didn't have any time to prepare, but the director cheered me on by saying, "You can do it!" The atmosphere of the set wasn't too different from the short films that I was used to, but as my character's part grew bigger, I became more nervous. However, acting with other girls my age helped me get over my anxiety.
Q: You started acting in dramas in 2015.
A: My first television project was a short drama special called Red Moon. It was right after filming Black Priests, and my hair was only 1 centimeter long. I heard KBS's CP Bae Kyung-soo had asked to see me, and so I went to meet him. I heard he was making a sageuk, but because my hair was so short, I didn't have any hopes. After the script reading, the CP said, "I want you to play Princess Hwa-won." The makeup director took care of my short hair, and miraculously, I looked like I had long flowing hair naturally.
Q: In Because It's the First Time, you showed us your unique fresh charms.
A: Before Because It's the First Time, I had taken on mostly unusual roles. Finally, I had the chance to act my own age, and work with a bright, optimistic character. Even though [my character's] situation was unfortunate, I felt very happy to play her.
Q: In Beautiful Mind, you experienced growing pains.
A: I was drawn to Gae Jin-sung [my character in Beautiful Mind] because she was the only person who could change the leading man. But moving the heart with only sincerity is incredibly difficult. I don't think I was able to emote 100-percent from the beginning, and thinking that doing just this much would be enough to move the heart was my mistake. But I think the pain I felt was a good learning experience. Being an actor is an occupation where you're constantly judged. Not everyone will always like what you do. I believe you should own up to your mistakes and learn from them. However, the drama set had a very warm atmosphere. No matter what the audience response was, I had fun filming it. I am thankful that I had the opportunity to act in a drama like this one.
Q: It must have been hard for you as the main actor to hear the show would be cut.
A: Amongst the actors, we said that the people who would be hit the hardest were the PD and the writer. We hoped to do better for them, but unfortunately we weren't able to do so. It was sad to leave the good people I worked with a week earlier than expected. So there were lots of tears at the filming of the last episode.
Q: Soon afterwards, Cinderella started airing.
A: Cinderella is not your typical simple rags-to-riches story. We tried hard to create a rich, complex story. We took advantage of it being a pre-produced drama by trying different things. We had fun while filming. And it feels good to have received such a positive response.
Q: A working environment where four men love you must have been great.
A: Lots of people were envious. But there was a lot of filming to do separately with each of the four men. The PD joked, "If there's no Ha-won, we don't have any scenes to film." The filming atmosphere was really cheerful, and I think I fit the character well… During the four months of filming, I became more like my character. First, I needed time to adjust, but after 2-3 weeks, I was able to take on my role naturally and film enjoyably. Ahn Jae-hyun in real life is quite a bit different from his character. In real life, he's quiet and gentle, very different from his playboy character. At the beginning he worried, "I've never done this before. How am I supposed to do this?" But eventually, he did so well that we thought, "Maybe he's actually hidden his real character from us all along?"
Q: What were the key points you thought of when you were acting as Eun Ha-won [your character in Cinderella]?
A: Ha-won is someone who speaks and acts exactly how she feels. More than any other role, I was ready to be accepting. I tried to be very open and natural in my acting. She's not the type to be coy. And having good chemistry with my male co-stars was important, so I tried to be conscious of that as well.
Q: What charm do you think made the Four Knights fall in love with you?
A: She [Ha-won] is a girl with a warm heart. Despite not receiving much love in her childhood, she's a cool person who knows how to love and give to others.
Q: As the representative of actresses without double-eyelids, do you have any complexes about your appearance?
A: I think having a different appearance than other people is part of my charm. I've never thought of getting plastic surgery. I'm not 100-percent satisfied with my face, but I like that it's the type of face that is hard to replicate with surgery. I think it's important for actors to have their unique charms. Because other people can't easily copy it, it can be an advantage to me. If there are actresses who look like dolls, shouldn't there also be actresses who look like me? Especially since there are so many different roles to play out there. It's more interesting to watch if there are different types of charms on display. Of course, at first I thought that people with sharp facial features would stand out better on camera. I started acting because I wanted to perform, but I didn't think I'd actually be able to stand in front of a camera one day. When I graduated, I didn't think I'd be able to shoot even one film, but when I turned 21, I kept being contacted by acting productions. From then on, I started gaining confidence in my looks.
Q: You're at that youthful age when people start falling in love.
A: Do people fall in love because of their age? (Laughs.) I'm not dating right now. How long has it been since my vacation? I don't remember.
Q: From the time you were in your second year at the Korean National University of Arts to your third year, you filmed 15 indie films.
A: I realized work doesn't come to you if you stay still. So I decided to actively pursue it. I made my profile with an ordinary photo, and sent it everywhere. I was able to start working that way. Afterwards when the film staff I had worked with called me back, I was able to work on more films.
Q: What's the reason you started on your path to acting?
A: I saw the musical Grease as a freshman in high school. The actors looked so happy. That's when I started thinking that maybe I would like to become a musical actor. My parents were fervently against it. They wanted me to live an ordinary life. I didn't really have a dream before acting. I think I just lived without meaning. So I counseled my younger siblings to think carefully about what they want to do, and study hard to go to a college that will support their dreams. Sometimes I wonder what I would have done if I had not found acting.
Q: You have two younger siblings. Is that correct?
A: I'm the eldest, and I have a younger sister and a younger brother. My parents had children until they got the boy they wanted. My sister encourages me and my acting more than anyone else. When I get a script, she gives me advice, and as she grows older, she's become more like a friend that I can rely on.
Q: You're often mentioned in the same sentence as your college classmates Kim Go-eun and Lee Yoo-young. Do you feel any rivalry toward them?
A: We don't engage in that type of psychological battle. Even during school, we were classmates and competitors. But the moment I start thinking of them as rivals, I will fall. I don't think it's a good line of thought. We should be friends that support each other. People say there aren't many actresses in their twenties, so it's nice that we are mentioned together. Even now in the school internet chatroom, we still exchange encouragements for each other. If someone is holding a concert or play, we all go, and if someone is being featured in a drama or movie, we watch and give our constructive criticisms.
Q: You are busy acting in the play Closer, right?
A: I've liked the theater play Closer for a while now, and I wanted to try being Alice. I think amongst the four men and women in Closer, Alice is the one who has the most conviction about life and love. If the movie Closer focused on the melodrama and love aspect [of the story], I think the play focuses more on showing the human relationships. It was that point that appealed to me, and made me choose it as my comeback project.
Q: So I guess you are jumping right into theater without really having a break.
A: Even in the future, I'd like to continue doing plays. If it's possible, I'd like to try movies, dramas, and plays of every type of genre.
Q: Don't you feel tired physically?
A: If I feel tired, I should rest. (Laughs.) Without relaxing, it's easy to become fatigued, but being able to experience different things is my driving force in life. I could have rested this time, but Closer actually healed my little tiredness by making my heart burn hotter with passion. I wouldn't be satisfied if I stopped now. So I think I'll keep going until my fire runs out.
Q: If you were given some time off…
A: I want to travel. It doesn't matter where, but I would like to go on a two-week journey.
Q: What's your main worry right now?
A: How should I act in this complex play so that people will be able to understand it most easily?
Q: What type of actress do you want to become?
A: It's related to my worry now, but I don't want to burn out. If I didn't have fun doing what I do, I wouldn't be able to do it. If I become completely exhausted, I don't think I'd be able to stand up again. I hope that I'll continue to love my work. Even if I become tired, I'd like to have the strength to still enjoy my work.
Via IS Plus 1, IS Plus 2, IS Plus 3
Park So-dam considers role in mystery thriller Fifth Column
Cinderella and the Four Knights: Episode 1
Cinderella is determined to turn her knights into a happy family
52nd Baeksang Arts Awards: Film Section
Beautiful Mind: Episode 1
Park So-dam makes her first appearance for Beautiful Mind
Park So-dam confirms taking the lead in Beautiful Mind
2015 Blue Dragon Awards
52nd Daejong Film Awards
Tags: interviews, Park So-dam
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1 cingdoc
Awww.... Now the drinking reminds me the cutest drunk Lee secretary and kissing scene and .... " get lost"
2 Nika
She's so cute, i want her in long hair soon
numberfour
she has long hair in the silenced. i prefer her with short hair!
3 Nanda
The interview makes me like her better.
4 kimchikay
I love her and appreciate the interview, but oh gosh..this line made me laugh out loud:
Cinderella is not your typical simple rags-to-riches story. We tried hard to create a rich, complex story.
Gosh I just rolled my eyes so hard at this line. Lol
klurker 🐙 Dora-Momo makes me wish I was young again
Lol. Indeed, the arcs were richly complex, the characters beautifully fleshed out. C4K will forever be in our list of the most innovative, awesome dramas ever. *slow clap* hahaha
Anniya
Hahaha! Same! :D Just finished watching Cinderella and I still don't really know why
angieya
Pffff right, reading that line I thought, ha, girl's a jokester. ?
Rolled my eyes at that.
I'm afraid at the moment I'm still going to file Park So-dam under "decent acting, but not reliable project choices". Meaning, if there's an interesting project and she happens to be in it, I won't mind watching it, but if she's in a project that won't be enough of a reason to watch it.
Generally find the interview a bit odd. Not sure why they'd interview her about her drinking habits? And this – "My parents had children until they got the boy they wanted" – is just sad (even if we know these things still happen).
CatoCat
Park So Dam is cheerily critical of parents. They might have bias towards girls but in many cases parents just want Certain Gender Baby. This is what we see in dramas isn't it? thinking of baby names and i want girl or boy.
It also feels like whatever scripts comes into Park So Dam hands she picks it up. Possible reason for bad script choices!!? Maybe.
Given her movie role choices and how different they're from that drama, I'd say that line is fed to her, maybe in ten years from now she'll be able to say what she truly feels about the projects she's done; right now she can't afford to.
Yeah. There isn't anything simple or typical when there isn't even any story to begin with.
THIS. I'm still trying to figure out what the story was
windsun33
I don't think the writer ever did figure out what the story was, and the director did not seem to put much effort into conveying it, if there was a story. I like PSD, but Cinderella was probably one that a few years from now she will delete from her resume.
bbstl
I guffawed. And thought hoo boy, somebody drank the kool-aid!
saranga
hahaha. i still need to watch the final 2 episodes, but i feel like i don't really need to. i'm sure everyone got a happy ending.
well, to be fair, cinderella isn't AS vapid or inane as shows of this genre can be. in fact, i thought it was quite quality for what it is. maybe the goal was to try and create a "rich, complex story" initially.
at any rate, most actors tend to speak positively of their projects. maybe they're biased, maybe they're putting on a front, but if an actor isn't going to back his or her project, then who will?
michykdrama
Yes! Agree with you. And If they pan their projects then I'm sure it's going to be hard for them to find work next time.
Regardless PSD did work hard on the project and I'm sure while she knows it isn't one that is going to win her any awards, she probably is proud of the fact that it's her first more traditional (although cheesy) rom com as the female lead.
gem28
Can you do that when you are just starting to get popular, trash the drama even if its well it deserves all the shit being piled on it. It was probably an automatic response that she had ready just in case. Probably could qualify the statement somehow but she didn't take any chance.
dramamama
Well, they tried. Unfortunately they did not succeed. It was still fun though.
Le__Ssy
When I saw that statement I was like: Oh, she's drunk already.
Flightey Gazelles
"she's already drunk" Lmao!
5 Cody
OK after reading this interview I love and respect her even more! She is such a hard-working mature cutie patootie! Will definitely keep an eye out for her future projects.
Fighting!!
She does sound refreshingly mature, with a focus on her craft and the amazing (these days) ability to be happy and comfortable in her own skin. I love the fact that she has never considered plastic surgery - she is beautiful, just as she is. For the sake of her slightly crooked teeth alone I will always cheer her on in future projects!
6 ⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
Girl, i hope you stay in chungmuro for a while. Until a good script comes to you. Cinderella is wasted your talent, fortunately the rating was still good.
love to see a very hardworking young actress like you. but manage your time well, you still need to enjoy your youth. Hope her next drama will be on jTBC.
Yeah Cinderella was a big time waste from an Outsider's Point of View. But i think the drama
and the shooting locations atmoshpahre was a good Period of Relaxation for Park So Dam.
JTBC appreciates people well and i also hope Park So Dam next project is on JTBC.
⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
I think for a newbie like her, it is actually good move to balance between movies and drama. Thus year she did two (was Because it's the First Time,this year or last year?).. Even the projects were not a success, I believe it is good enough for her to gain more international fans.
But if she really wants to pursue her career as a good actress, she needs to back back to do movies because I won't believe dramaland won't give her any justice. The competition with the idols and other actrsses will make her lose a good opportunity. Since she has a good reputation in movies, she better pursue her career in movies first.
jTBC appreciates talents, so hopefully they will call her to do their projects. In fact, I wish jTBC will give offer to many other underrated actresses as well, who face injustice in public stations.
* I believe dramaland won't give her any justice
Southerner
I believe she's very overrated. In fact I dropped "Beautiful Mind" w/ the wonderful Jang Hyuk, because she bothered me so. Then I had to 4go Cinderella w/ the awesome Jung Il Woo because of her. I think she's a dismal actress, who got lucky once and many more talented actors lost good roles, just as they do 2 idol actors because of her.
Yep, it's time to go back. I hope she does dramas only in between films like Han Ye-ri.
True, she has chances to shine more in movies so she better stay there. Many talented actors have no chance to shine in in movies, that's why they stayed and got wasted in dramaland, which is really unfortunate.
It's good to go back and forth. For them and for us too.
7 Anniya
She's such a breath of fresh air! And wisdom that belies her age. Loved her in Because It's the First Time. Hope to see more of her!
8 junny
Thanks so much for sharing this interview! I've liked Park So-dam in Beautiful Mind, where I thought she did a great job, and reading this interview made me like her more. She's cute as a button and I think short hair suits her really well. I also like that there's a naturalness to her acting. I'm glad she's willing to try different genres and types of roles (reminds me of Jang Hyuk!).
And she drinks? That's awesome. Love a girl who can hold her liquor.
And if my eyes do not betray me, she may smoke too. Which took me by surprise. She doesn't look like she would. There seem to be an ashtray in the 8th pic.
It's her health and I think she is wise enough to do whatever she wants, but boy, it brought my jaw to the floor.
wackycashew
That's a soju glass partly hidden by the plate.
9 Andee
Dammit, all that food and drinks she's having made me think she could cameo in Drinking Solo. Or maybe Let's Eat 3? I'll definitely take a bite out of that salmon, thank you- I mean, wait what?
PSD and her character was what drew me to Cinderella and the Four Knights, and I bet she'll go really far in her career. You go, girl!
10 Kiara
Thank you for the article. I really enjoy getting to know actors, writers etc in this kind of setting and not in gossip columns.
I had no idea she is good friends with Lee Yoo-young and Kim G-eun. They all talented movie actress and have a bright future in Chungmuro.
She is a good friend with Kim Go Eun , and they look alike! I often see ppl confusing with these two! . Now these two also have a short hair, lol.
They do. Her other friend Lee Yoo-young is doing well in movies. She hasn't done a drama yet. Maybe when her movie career is more stable she'll follow her friends to dramaland.
Actually Lee Yoo Young is more into Indie side of Korean cinema. Her character mostly are darker or even more complicated. Such a surprise she is still young though. She won one of International festival with her debut film. Finally, i see one person who will choose the same path like bae doona from younger generation. But still we dont know and i hope she wont ever or ever done drama. Just stick to the movie seriously
Totally understand. I used to hate it when movie actors do dramas because their talents is often wasted here.
When they signed on with good projects like Jeon Do-yeon's Good Wife than I think it's worth it.
It's been great to see some of them showcasing their talents in dramas like Han Suk-gyu, Han Ye-ri, Jo Jin-woong, Gong Hyo-jin, Jo Jae-hyun, Kim Go-eun, Park Bo-young, Ryu Seung-ryong, Son Ye-jin, Kim Mu-yeol, Ma Dong-seok etc.
11 Grapes
So proud of her confidence that she doesn't want to do a plastic sergury, glad that she's one of the few actresses that i can tell apart from other plastic dolls.
DeeGee
I agree! I like that she's proud of her distinctive looks and her working attitude. :)
Totally agree. I was struck by this a few days ago while watching one of those YouTube "current top k-pop" videos. Of the 25'ish girl groups featured, 3/4 of them all looked the same, like they had been cloned. Same with a few actresses - I actually have trouble sometimes telling one from the other they are so much alike.
Perhaps some of the newer actresses will break that "have to look like XX" mold. King Louis is another one that gets a different face out there.
12 TheImprintOnMyNose
Holy... I thought she's a teenager all this time. I was likw is she even legal to be drinking yet when i saw the article
13 wackycashew
I really like PSD and I'm rooting for her to continue to do well in her career. She's hardworking and just looking at the projects that she's done, she seems very versatile. I enjoyed her performance in both Because It's the First Time and Cinderella but haven't seen any movies yet since I tend to watch dramas more. I like that she's doing a play, which is a great way to hone her skills. It's always nice to see your talent not afraid of attempting different genres and I wish her all the best. She's cute and pretty, and I love her confidence. Too many in the industry get pressured to undergo plastic surgery to "fix" their looks, and I'm glad that she likes her own unique charms. PSD fighting!
14 gauui
What... Kim Yoon Seok made her cry?!!! UNFORGIVABLE.
Kim Yoon Seok is a tough teacher.
15 thursdaynexxt
Thanks @tineybeanie!
Awww, she's a sweetheart:
"I've never thought of getting plastic surgery. ... I like that it's the type of face that is hard to replicate with surgery. I think it's important for actors to have their unique charms."
"Q: You're at that youthful age when people start falling in love. / A: Do people fall in love because of their age?"
She's certainly wise for her age! Hope she can hang around cable tv a bit longer for some truly unique projects to showcase her unique charms!
Maybe she enjoyed making Cinderella a bit more than we enjoyed watching it, but she's still an actress I look forward to seeing more of!
The Cinderella fiasco was more of a writer/director problem than anything to do with her. In fact she was just about the only one I had any interest in at all in that drama. I think she did the best she could with what she had to work with.
thursdaynexxt
In fact, I'm imagining what Cinderella would've been like if PSD had played all the main roles herself. I think that might have been a show well worth watching!
16 michykdrama
❤ Yay for her. Glad she isn't letting the bad reviews for BM get to her and she is doing what she loves.
"I hope that I'll continue to love my work. Even if I become tired, I'd like to have the strength to still enjoy my work."
Yes girl! I hope you carry on to do what you love and always remember why you love doing it.
17 Pissenlit
She is so cute ! and a sensible girl, thru this interview we are getting to know her much more.
Keep it up, Park So Dam, girl. you are a hard working person, you will be really sucessful years to come !!
Dream high and sky is your limit.
18 Ajusshi
I am very surprised most comments indicate they didn't think much of Cinderella and the Four Knights. I found it compelling and thought PSD was a sweetheart in the last six episodes I could hardly bare to watch in case her character really would miss out. Her unrequited love and apparent resilience in being selfless was magical. I think she is pretty and as with so many it's her expressions that flash of dimple or drawing her mouth down that is so winning. I love the asiatic eyes for me they cause a shiver down my spine!
19 Daniel Norton
She is pretty awesome! Cinderella was great!


property in order to abate the entrenched gang and nuisance activity there."
Libman has claimed to Associated Press that he has no knowledge of illegal activity occurring in the 24-unit complex. See MS13.pdf for full text of Delgadillo's press release.


NEW DELHI Gautam Gambhir's final appearance in competitive cricket will add an emotional overtone to an otherwise normal Ranji Trophy group league encounter between a depleted Delhi and Andhra starting today.
While it's a dream for any player to retire in an Indian jersey, Gambhir will be happy that he is calling it quits on his own terms even though his state team is in a spot of bother.
With regular captain Nitish Rana and the talented Himmat Singh away on national duty (with Emerging India squad), Gambhir's experience was much more required at this stage where a couple of bad matches will put Delhi out of knock-out contention.


text:
Q: Access Tokens for External users in Office 365 If one of our SharePoint online Sites has been shared with a external user using his LiveID (Microsoft Account like hotmail).
Does this external user can be authenticated by our Azure AD to be able to call applications using OAuth? Does this user get a valid access token by our Azure AD?

A: Yes, it is able for guest users to consent to applications, granting them the same access that members have in your directory.
More detail about guest user management and limitations you can refer here.

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaStackExchange


text:
Art Bell, Dean Koontz, Mr. T, and GKC
I think that much of the genius of GKC, CS Lewis, and Tolkein consists in their ability to draw in people from many different, seemingly contradictory backgrounds. It has been said before, especially by Dr. Peter Kreeft, that the New Evangelization seems best accomplished through literature and the imagination. The classic themes of Christianity are seen as cliches of an outmoded system when presented academically, but within the context of high fantasy they stir the spirit.
I thought the Dean Koontz/GKC connection earlier in the week was interesting. I have not read much Dean Koonz. I started a book once back in Iraq but didnt get to finish it. Koontz has stuck in my mind for some time since I heard a radio interview with him on Art Bell one night. Although obviously a bit new agey, I was impressed with how Koontz presented himself. Another FYI, Prof. Anthony Rizzi, EWTN personality and Catholic Author, also did an Art Bell interview a couple years ago and left Art truly amazed --- with his discussion of simple, classical metaphysics. For those of you who dont know Art Bell is THE original late night radio host --mostly into hauntings and UFOs.
Art's amazement reminded me of one of my childhood heroes from the 80s, Mr. T. His trademark line, "I pity the fool," is something I am starting to identify with. I think that "Orthodoxy", Classical Philosophy, the Great Books, and all of the things associated are truly the most wonderful inheritance of the human mind. The great thoughts of the great thinkers are exciting, invogorating, and liberating in the best sense of the word. I recently ran into an old college professor of mine, whose curriculum I ended up having to deprogram out of myself, cant say much more about the poor fellow than " I pity the fool" for allowing relativism and the peer pressure of the academic community cloud his search for the good, the true, and the beautiful. I think our language is insufficient when it says I have to put commas between that minor trinity.
Posted by Kyro at 5:45 AM 2 comments:
Chesterton and the Priest of Spring
Spring is creeping in to Western New York - with occasional interruptions of sub-freezing temperatures and snow to remind us that winter is not ready to give up.
The bulbs my wife planted last year are sprouting.
The robins are back in our backyard feeders, along with hoards of other hungry birds gathering at our bird feeders.
I smell the skunks when I take my dog for her morning walk.
I remembered a Chesterton piece in A Miscellany of Men that dealt with spring: "The Priest of Spring".
He notes the many myths about this season (including a few modern ones), but, naturally turns to the Easter story.
The whole essay is worth reading (well, it is by Chesterton, after all), so I recommend that you dig it out (it's also on line).
It concludes with:
About all these myths my own position is utterly and even sadly simple.
I say you cannot really understand any myths till you have found
that one of them is not a myth. Turnip ghosts mean nothing if there
are no real ghosts. Forged bank-notes mean nothing if there are no real
bank-notes. Heathen gods mean nothing, and must always mean nothing,
to those of us that deny the Christian God. When once a god
is admitted, even a false god, the Cosmos begins to know its place:
which is the second place. When once it is the real God the Cosmos
falls down before Him, offering flowers in spring as flames in winter.
"My love is like a red, red rose" does not mean that the poet
is praising roses under the allegory of a young lady.
"My love is an arbutus" does not mean that the author was a botanist
so pleased with a particular arbutus tree that he said he loved it.
"Who art the moon and regent of my sky" does not mean that Juliet
invented Romeo to account for the roundness of the moon.
"Christ is the Sun of Easter" does not mean that the worshipper is
praising the sun under the emblem of Christ. Goddess or god can clothe
themselves with the spring or summer; but the body is more than raiment.
Religion takes almost disdainfully the dress of Nature; and indeed
Christianity has done as well with the snows of Christmas as with
the snow-drops of spring. And when I look across the sun-struck fields,
I know in my inmost bones that my joy is not solely in the spring,
for spring alone, being always returning, would be always sad.
There is somebody or something walking there, to be crowned with flowers:
and my pleasure is in some promise yet possible and in the resurrection
of the dead.
No Gilbert
It's now been a week since some folks have gotten the latest Gilbert.
No luck here.
This moves me to song -
Oh where, oh where has my Gilbert gone?
Oh where, oh where can it be?
With wit and wisdom and levity,
Chesterton Wins!
At Phat Catholic's poll: Who's your favorite Catholic author? Link. He barely beat out Tolkien. The two of them were far ahead of the rest of the field (Belloc, Knox, Waugh, and Pearce).
That's No Lady. That's Luciferette
When my issue of Gilbert comes I begin reading it on my walk home from the post office. I start with News With Views, because you can read those short pieces and walk at the same time. I was held (laughing) by THE DEVIL IS A GENTLEMAN, BUT APPARENTLY GOD IS NOT. It was another attempt at making a Scriptural change from God the Father into God Mother or at least a He/She – inclusive language type crap. But the Devil is never included in the radical feminist lexicon as female and it's about time she was. So I wrote this, (and managed to get a GKC quote in it to boot)…
When the Devil sleeps
does she have nightmares?
of her doing a kindness,
getting caught in the light,
or are they like ours
tangible images of guilt?
Is it when she tosses and turns
over the future of her children
that things happen?
A man notices that
his newspaper girl's tits
are bigger than his wife's:
he carries a gun to work.
A thousand children
are born with
holes in their hearts.
Are her nightmares that
her only real failure
was with Jonah, Peter
and so many of those other
foolish heroes.
Her only real success
is that "the Christian ideal has
not been tried and found wanting;
it has been found difficult
and left untried."
Maybe she is an
afraid to sleep
knowing that is
when the other wins.
A longing for equal competition?
When awake
does she take pride in her work?
Is she simply fighting for
equal billing?
Her name
above the title?
Dean Koontz, being interviewed in Faith & Family magazine: "I feel about Catholicism as G.K. Chesterton did -- that it encourages an exuberance, a joy about the gift of life."
Dean Koontz and GKC. Interesting juxtaposition. That's one genre I don't think GKC cracked: the horror and supernatural thriller. If anybody thinks I'm wrong, feel free to correct me in the comboxes.
Also seen over the weekend: The Chicago Sun Times ran another literary listing for a live appearance by our man. He'll be in Forrest Park on April 14th. At least this one will take place during the Easter season.
We're preparing to welcome Nick Milne back to Monday blogging in two weeks. Let's hope he has stocked up a GKC arsenal during his Lenten hiatus.
I have been thinking a lot lately as to what went wrong and when. Just how did this age become know as the Post Christian Society? Some call the Roe decision ground zero - but who built that bomb, who flew the plane and who pulled the bomb bay doors open? It was the baby boomers. That is my generation. Sex drugs and rock and roll, baby. I was lied to and I believed the lie. The reasons are simple. Our parents grew out of a very rough time of the Depression then WW2 and they did not want their kids to suffer in any way. We became the focus of their entire attention we asked for something we got it, we felt bad they held us, and they became the servants we were the masters. The world got turned upside-down. We were placed center stage. The spot light is very warm and everyone is applauding. It is a tough spot to give up so we fight to stay there, fight to stay children and push everything else out from having our own children to God. They wanted the best for us they gave us everything but the lessons on how to be an adult. We remain children whining and spewing forth me first! Me first! Many do not know how to be adults. One of the top reasons I love Chesterton is that he is an adult who talks to us like we are adults.
Barbara Nicolosi, explains the problem very well. Her suggestion for the "cure" is very simple and direct. A perfect sentiment for lent (a season of reconciliation) where she says: "It could be a big moment of grace for the Boomers in the Church to own up, take responsibility and apologize."
I agree. I apologize.
Is it a venial sin.......
......to mention CS Lewis on a Chesterton blog? I used to think that quoting Lewis to Dale Ahlquist was either a venial sin, fighting words, or something similar -- I learned in old Communist Yugoslavia you could be imprisoned for "Verbal Dereliction," maybe that applies.
Anyway, I was moving some books around and I found my old copy of The Abolition of Man. I hadnt read this in years, but I class it in the same circle of works as Orthodoxy and the Everlasting Man, essentially the manifesto of the faith of our fathers for the modern age.
In his chapter, "Men Without Chests," Lewis condemns certain trends in modern eduation, beginning with an example from a schoolbook of his age. He builds to the crescendo,
"....the difference between the old and the new ecuation will be an important one. Where the old initiated, the new merely 'conditions'. The old dealt with its pupils as grown birds deal with young birds when they teach them to fly; the new deals with them more as the poultry-keeper deals with young birds- making them thus or thus for purposes of which the birds know nothing. In a word, the old was a kind of propagation - men transmitting manhood to men; the new is merely propaganda."
Propagation vs. propaganda ......very good summation
Chesterton obviously is similar here in his theme. GKC is more often a defender of the good things, rather than a critic of the bad. The language of indignation can be overused, but Lewis' expertise in its use actually shines off the page in Abolition.
Waiting for Gilbert
As I wait for my copy of Gilbert to arrive, I think of St. Augustine's comment that, "Patience is the companion of wisdom."
Oh, to be wiser.
Then again, given the stories about GKC, perhaps waiting is simply part of being a Chestertonian.
THE FIRST EDICT OF KING STEVE
It had been a long, hard, oppressive winter. The likes of which had not been felt for a generation. In the neighborhood, where Steve lived, there was one death and twelve new lives begun each blamed on the confinement of that winter. Snow mobile 'gangs' rumbled through at all hours of the day on the streets and through unfenced yards as if the snow united all into a mile square playground. Schools and businesses closed for days at a time. It was the kind of winter that made grandparent's say 'this used to happen all the time when I was young.' Utilities bills had soared to the point where many would be paying on them through August. The only color that had pierced the white and gray landscape was that of the snow suits worn by the children. The blue, red, orange, teal and purple of the marshmallow shaped people that parents forced outside to relive their entertainment duties. Their cartoon voices were held close to the ground by the increased gravity of coldness like a half remembered song being hummed by an old man. These were the occasional high notes and sweet cords played in the otherwise grim score that droned through the lives of the town.
When the first Robins were spotted there was still a foot of snow on the ground. The snows began the day after Thanksgiving and continued through the first week of March stopping on occasion as if only to catch it's breath. Few trusted the promise of spring; it was like watching a middle aged man trying to get back in shape, so he could date again. The start was fitful, painful, almost humorous, but it was determined. It would not be stopped. The question was if it would get in top shape before summer or just shed a few pounds.
Steve let out a long stuttering breath as he stood in his yard, now so many square feet of mud and slush. Stubborn snow still clung to the edges of the dive way, more black than white. He did not realize the unrelenting pounding the winter had inflicted on him until this unique day when the temperature toped 65 degrees. He could breathe again without being slapped. His winter beard could be shaved. His quilt lined wool pants and lucky scarf could be put away. A breeze came up and he instinctively flinched but relaxed and smiled when he felt its warmth.
'The breath of God' his mother used to call the first wind of spring. A car drove by and he heard the sound of the manhole cover, finally unfrozen, clang back and forth. Out of the corner of his eye he spotted a hint of green. The woodpecker, on his annual visit, hammered out a message of love.
Although there were still many with frozen hearts Stephen stepped upon on the exhausted remnants of his wood pile and falling on his knees he cried out in a loud voice officially calling an end to winter, and let the music of the cheering throngs, fill him with their undying gratitude.
At last weekend's edition of the New York Sun, in a review of Clive James' new book:
As Mr. James shows in this essay, a real intellectual is secure enough not to be worried about the height of his brow. Mr. James's principled eclecticism comes out in an essay on G.K. Chesterton, which, true to form, is really an essay about high and pop culture, provoked by Chesterton's definition of the critic's role: "To set a measure to praise and blame, and to support the classics against the fashions."
(I'm scheduled for minor surgery tomorrow, so I'm posting this early and changing the time stamp. Hope nobody freaks out and thinks all of Tuesday suddenly slipped away.)
Volume 10 Number 4 (Issue 77) has arrived. I haven't had much chance to read it, but I've glanced through it and read Dailey's Tremendous Trifles. It looks like a pretty good issue. For now, a few book notices:
1. The back cover has an advertisement for new book about GKC: Thinking Backward, Looking Forward, by Stephen R. L. Clark (too many names there). Anyone hear any good reviews?
2. S.P. Dailey says one of the best GKC anthologies is back in print. As I Was Saying: A Chesterton Reader. It might be a good introduction to those who want to read Chesterton but don't, you know, want to read read Chesterton.
3. Barnes & Noble Publishing recently released GKC's The Ball and the Cross, the latest volume in their Library of Essential Reading series. Dailey says it's a handsome paperback. Only $7.95. Interesting but not shocking: The link in this paragraph is NOT to the Barnes & Noble edition. The BN edition apparently is not available at Amazon. The rivalry continues!
On Time..
It seems rare that I make my Friday post on an actual Friday.
Platform shoes/Platform thinking
The events of the last week have gotten me thinking about the state of "thought" in the US. I really think that from the University level on down, we are losing perspective on many things. The particular symptom I see is how politicized EVERYTHING is. This is obviously bad for a multitude of reasons, but it has the negative effect of diluting arguement, thought, and sophisticated intellectual life.
I am a Chestertonian, a Conservative, a Catholic, and (for now, still) a Republican. All of these "spheres" I inhabit have some common principles, lumenaries, and some same vocabulary, but they are ultimately not a Totalitarian monolithic jihadist platform.
Platforms, you see, are the extent to which any issues are discussed now. Abp. Sheen once said something along the lines that there are probably only a hundred people who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who despise what they think the Church is. There is a specific means by which the Church discovers and proclaims her doctrine. Although St. Augustine might be a Platonist, St. Thomas an Aristotelian, and John Paul II a Phenomenologist, they are all articulating the same ends through different means. This type of exigesis is far more sophisticated than the ridiculous mode of thought represented by "Update the Church's teaching to be relevant for our times." Im all for that if it means growing out of the failed 1960s ideas which have plagued us.
Platforms exist in the political world to create coalitions and demographics capable of winning elections. Period. The Democratic Party must hold union members, educators, environmentalists, social reformers, and radical secularists together in order to build a voting bloc. This necessity is one of association, not of coherent message or vision. The thoughts and values of working union families are far different than those of the George Soros circle of social reformers. They come together to create numbers. Likewise, the Republicans hold together some different bedfellows as well. What is lost in all of this is that politics, positions on issues, and governing are the END products of a process, not the process itself.
It is now sufficient to say, "I have a right to X." No other arguement is necessary. Even the ancient Greeks knew enough to ask, "What are rights? Are they absolute? Are some absolute? Do they apply to the individual or to the family or polis? What are rights derived from? Do some rights exist apart from the state or from the human condition itself?"
As a Republican, I could see making more gestures towards Mexico on the immigration issue, since some Hispanics could be wooed for the party's family values vote. As a Conservative, I could think that current foreign policy is seen as imperialistic, expensive, and very un conservative. As a Chestertonian, I would like to see taxes and business laws opened up in order to make it easier to live as a freehold distributist. As a Catholic, I have a base of Scripture, Patristics, and 2000 of theology and lived history to derive truths from.
In the public arena, none of these layers matter, because they cannot be reduced to a soundbite.
Two things came together and got me thinking about this. 1. The current news items about homosexuality, whether it is immoral - one story, and if it is genetic or biologically based it cannot be wrong by "natural law." - second story. Anybody with a computer and google could find out the correct definitions of these terms in milliseconds, but because most people in the press and education are even aware that these terms might actually mean something and have a robust defense, they are left undefined in the morass.
I used to think it cliche how Dale Ahlquist would always describe Chesterton as "A complete thinker." I am beginning to see this as perhaps his greatest trait. In most circles, "complete thinker" would connotate closed mindedness, and dull, rote blandness. I think it is because GKC is a complete thinker that he was able to be an artist, a novelist, an apologist, a cigar lover, and a boon companion to some of the greatest minds of his age.
Posted by Kyro at 3:09 PM 2 comments:
A unicorn behind the wheel
There's a story in the news about a man who claims a unicorn was driving his truck and crashed it.
Phillip C. Holliday Jr. of Billings Montana initially said a unicorn drove his truck into a light post on March 7. Nobody was injured.
He later pleaded not guilty to felony charges of criminal endangerment and drunken driving. Holliday has five drunken-driving convictions.
A unicorn, eh? For some reason it made me think of Chesterton. Not because of the drinking, though Chesterton certainly enjoyed adult beverages, but just the sheer whimsy of citing a unicorn under the circumstances.
Certainly a better excuse than Pink Elephants.
Then I remembered a poem of Chesterton's I stumbled across called, "An Apology for a Letter Unposted (For Clare Nicholl)"
The poem begins:
He thought he saw the Unicorn, the horned and holy horse,
He looked again and saw it was a Subject for Remorse,
He rushed for what he meant to post –
And didn't post, of course.
The poem goes on for a couple of verses, then ends:
He thought he saw the Unicorn, crowned of the Silver Spear,
He wondered if it was a Stag, and saw it was a Dear –
And so he drowned himself –
some say in Water –
some in Beer.
How appropriate as we approach St. Patrick's Day.
GKC at Culture Wars
I hear the current issue of Culture Wars has a "hatchet job" on Chesterton. I went to the site but couldn't find anything, except this nice review by James Bruen (a good man, based on my electronic corresondence with him) of Ahlquist's two GKC books.
I just read in The Atlantic that Tolkien is publishing another book. It's about Hurin's children (Turin Turambar and Nienor, I assume). Kind of surprising. The Silmarillion already contains a lot of detail about Turin. No matter. I'm looking forward to it.
"Like the Lord of the Rings films, J. R. R. Tolkien's canon is taking its time in drawing to a close. [On April 17th], the late author's Children of Húrin goes on sale. Set long before Lord and imbued with a more tragic tone, the tale was pieced together by Tolkien's son, Christopher, from notes and fragments."
A Bit Late Again.........
......But continuing the theme.
Im sorry about missing my normal Friday, had some business and family committments that ate up the whole weekend.
Last week, I saw a ray of (mostly) hope from the normally superficial History Channel. The network was doing a week special on barbarian leaders, and I caught their feature on King Alfred the Great, of Ballad of the White Horse fame.
There was a slight bit of acrimony towards Alfred's Christianity, but tame by HC standards. They provided a fairly deep study of the character of Alfred -- The only British monarch to hold the title 'The Great.' Alfred was actually a somewhat slight, scholarly individual who had to make himself into a warrior in order to be a leader of his people. After Ethandune, he spread learning amongst the nobility, often giving gifts of books he personally translated. Alfred also built up a great deal of infrastructure which would not be equalled until the Norman conquest.
Just wanted to keep the theme of manly men going, plus give credit where due when the History Channel does something well.
Posted by Kyro at 8:55 AM No comments:
Manly Men
In Eric's post on manly men he did bring up the question (in my mind) of "what does it mean to be a man?" Some situations are easy to decide, like:
Shall we watch The Magnificent Seven or Wuthering Heights?
Should I teach my son how to change a tire or how to call triple A?
If your daughter brings home a new boy friend should you tell him, (A), in the service I learned 12 ways to break a man's back and I still remember seven of them or (B), hey I remember what it feels like to be young here are some fresh rubbers. I'm sure yours are old.
But what about the tough calls:
A guy driving along talking on his cell phone ordering a pizza takes a corner to fast and hits your child, crippling her for life. Do you (A) beat the living crap out of him and sue him down to homelessness or (B) forgive him and let the courts take care of the punishment?
Your wife has a one time affair and winds up pregnant with his child. Do you (A) beat the living crap out of him and send your wife packing or (B) forgive them both and raise the child as your own?
If these were plot lines in a Duke Wayne movie we know that the answer to the above would be (A). And the audience would cheer him all along the way.
But is this A REAL MAN?
Or do real men even talk about such things? Hokay, I know one man who did but they nailed him to a tree.
What would Chesterton and his friends say since none of them had a manly profession? I mean they were all writers and philosophers and that kind of namby-pamby little girl stuff.
Cheat the Prophet
There was a Chesterton sighting in our local paper.
No, not the great one himself. (I think he's scheduled to be in Chicago this Saturday, though!)
The paper carried a George Will column Monday. The column dealt with Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign.
He talked about the tinge to her campaign that she is "next in line" for the presidency.
He wrote: "But such an aura annoys voters by telling them that they really have no choice. And that can provoke them to play the game G. K. Chesterton called `Cheat the Prophet.'"
Okay. He got me. I'd never heard of this "game," so I went off searching for it.
It turns out the game is mentioned in The Napoleon of Notting Hill in the opening section called "Introductory Remarks of the Art of Prophecy."
The human race, to which so many of my readers belong, has been playing at children's games from the beginning, and will probably do it till the end, which is a nuisance for the few people who grow up. And one of the games to which it is most attached is called, "Keep to-morrow dark," and which is also named (by the rustics in Shropshire, I have no doubt) "Cheat the Prophet". The players listen very carefully and respectfully to all that the clever men have to say about what is to happen in the next generation. The players then wait until all the clever men are dead, and bury them nicely. They then go and do something else. That is all. For a race of simple tastes, however, it is great fun. ...
Then the people went and did what they liked. Let me no longer conceal the painful truth. The people had cheated the prophets of the twentieth century. When the curtain goes up on this story, eighty years after the present date, London is almost exactly like what it is now.
I wonder who history with name as false prophets from our time.
I can think of a few.
But rather than predicting who will make that list - and risk being a "false prophet" - I'll end by quoting more contemprary prophets who echoed GKC: Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
Hope we don't get fooled again.
Sorry for the dearth of posting. Life has been fairly hectic.
My most-recent blog column is online at The Register (registration required). It's about virility in the blogosphere. Among GKC's friends, I think Belloc would've been the most virile blogger, or maybe Eric Gill (just jokin').
From the intro of my column:
When you were a teenager, did you have a non-Bible 'bible' — a book you read and re-read, carried around with you, swore held the key to the universe if only more people would listen to what its author said?
Maybe your dog-eared oracle was Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance or Siddhartha or Catcher in the Rye or On the Road. Those books, perennial coming-of-age favorites to this day, were a bit too weighty for me.
My teenage bible was a book of pictures and anecdotes called The Manly Handbook. Who made America? "Real men," it said, "like Davy Crockett, Jim Bowie, Teddy Roosevelt and Duke Wayne."
Do you want to read manly books? Buy Mickey Spillane novels. Manly movies? Watch Dirty Harry, Death Wish, Hercules and the Captive Women and anything with John Wayne. Looking for manly recreation? "Kick down all the doors in your house," advised The Manly Handbook, and "take a midnight stroll through the Bronx unarmed." Manly occupation? Rodeo rider, bounty hunter, bartender, drill sergeant, mercenary, truck driver.
Chasing Rabbits
My crew left for the weekend leaving me to continue the rehab of our kitchen. Letting the first coat of drywall mud dry I moved on to my computer area in great hopes of cleaning that up too. As I was removing and filing a pile of papers I uncovered Chesterton's book on Saints Aquinas and Francis, (I was wondering where that went). Sitting down to "thumb through it" again it thus bring an end to my plans for further kitchen construction.
I moved to some of Aquinas's writings and came across some quotes of his that made me understand why Gilbert loved him so:
"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."
"It is clear that he does not pray, who, far from uplifting himself to God, requires that God shall lower Himself to him, and who resorts to prayer not to stir the man in us to will what God wills, but only to persuade God to will what the man in us wills."
"Man cannot live without joy; therefore when he is deprived of true spiritual joys it is necessary that he become addicted to carnal pleasures."
Knowing that Aquinas brought the ancient philosophers to bear in forming his theology I moved on to Plato and his buddies and I saw how Aquinas could "easily" do this.
In his "Republic," Plato has Socrates describe the effect on the soul of grace and gracelessness in the material culture: "Our aim is to prevent our Guards being reared among images of vice — as it were in a pasturage of poisonous herbs where, cropping and grazing in abundance every day, they little by little and all unawares build up one huge accumulation of evil in their soul. Rather, we must seek out craftsmen with a talent for capturing what is lovely and graceful, so that our young, dwelling as it were in a salubrious region, will receive benefit from everything about them. Like a breeze bringing health from wholesome places, the impact of works of beauty on eye or ear will imperceptibly from childhood on, guide them to likeness, to friendship, to concord with the beauty of reason."
Remembering a past post of mine on the power of television to teach, Plato is telling us that you won't find such "craftsmen" on television today.
Turn it off - read a book or rehab your kitchen.
Seriously Down Under
I can see the bumper sticker now:
SAVE A TREE. KILL A BABY.
Personally opposed but….
"Gentlemen, we have to do something to protect our phony baloney jobs."
Gov. William J. LePetomaine
You have come a long way...
http://www.amazon.com/Human-Eventss-Top-Ten-Reads/lm/SVYLDIMK64IZ/ref=cm_lmt_fvlm_f_1_rlrsrs0/104-6688661-6187929
http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/2UV4MZKGI0CAT/ref=cm_syt_fvlm_f_2_rlrsrs0/104-6688661-6187929
These are just a couple lists I found on Amazon which feature GKC not as a great Catholic writer, but as a representative of the Great Books of Western Civilization. This is a category which everyone understands the generals, but argues about the particulars. I was looking on Amazon for another reason and just stumbled into this. It does seem that outside of the homeschooled even the idea of Great Books has been totally lost. This isnt snobbery or anything, but how miserable it would be to go through life without having these wonderful thoughts and ideas in your head.
A Supreme clerihew
They say John Marshall
was partial
to judicial review
and his wife Mary too.
Sorry for the dearth of posting. Life has been fai...


text:
Q: Run server by uWSGI for tests I need to run a django server for some testcases. Is there any possibility to run server by uwsgi inside setUp() method and close it after tests?
I tried to find some solution, but there's only information about how to run server by Linux terminal.


The Three Musketeers, SDC's 77th pantomime. The script is an original adaptation of Alexander Dumas' classic novel, and is the third written by Andrew Nicholson, a member of the club. Katie Eynon chose this tale for her pantomime directorial debut, after performing in many of our shows over the past five years.
While The Three Musketeers may not be a long established pantomime, the show is a tale of courage, teamwork, honour and bravery, and includes all the usual pantomime ingredients, upholding the finest traditions of the genre.
Perhaps it was Lynda Snell's decision to go "off piste" with the Ambridge Christmas production (Calendar Girls! Really?!) which persuaded them. But the Sanderstead Dramatic Club has opted for uncharted territory with their panto next month when they perform The Three Musketeers.
With the help of the three musketeers Aramis, Athos and Porthos, D'Artagnan strives to thwart the evil Cardinal Richelieu and his wicked spies Roquefort and Milady de Winter and their plot to overthrow the bumbling King Louis. So perfect panto material then.
Adapted from Alexandre Dumas' classic with an original script by SDC member Andrew Nicholson, the historical adventure also features a live band, choreography from local dance groups Dance with Grace and Warlingham Dance School, and scenery designed by local artist Di Ralston and her team.
The show runs from January 9 to 16 at All Saints Parish Hall.
"The original script brings all the best panto ingredients – the fun and laughs, evil villains and 'he's behind you' moments – to a classic story that parents and grandparents will enjoy as much as our youngest audience members," said Katie Eynon, the show's director.


text:
City Room | Nocturnalist | Rock 'n' Roll, With Subdued Grit
Nocturnalist | Rock 'n' Roll, With Subdued Grit
By Sarah Maslin Nir
February 18, 2011 8:04 am February 18, 2011 8:04 am
In some ways it was a very rock 'n' roll after-party: guests whispered a password at the door of the Bowery Hotel (it was "Radio City") and passed through a hall of exposed brick, into a crowd dotted with the expected number of motorcycle jackets and the sort of young men who protect their eyes from UV rays — indoors, at night.
But though the guests at the party celebrating the band Interpol's stellar gig at Radio City Music Hall on Thursday night included the usual indie rock mélange of D.J.'s, ex- and current girlfriends of the band and music journalists, there was none of the genre's usual grit.
At the bar, a flannel-clad Kurt Cobain-alike ordered a $13 glass of Champagne. A couple posed tangling tongues while their friend snapped photos of them next to a potted palm tree under a stately chandelier. House beats pulsed without the threat of shattering eardrums — at such a tolerable volume, to this crowd it might as well have been Muzak. It was a far cry from Black and White, the East Village bar whose sticky and cigarette-strewn floor was once the band's regular stomping ground.
"This is what rock has turned into," said Sarah Lewitinn, a k a the legendary Lower East Side D.J. Ultragrrrl, sitting on a banquet in the hotel's courtyard. "It used to be hanging out in basements of bars," she said. "You had each other's dark secrets in your pocket. When you have to pay $12 for a drink, you lose the rock 'n' roll element of it all."
Past midnight, a few members of the band arrived and settled into couches in the center of the room, their comfort attended to by a black-clad member of the hotel staff with a Secret Service-style earpiece snaking up the back of his neck. The musicians schmoozed, hugged and stayed less than an hour. "Maybe they'd just rather hang out at their own bars with their own friends," said Niki Kanodia, a guest. "Wouldn't you?"
Have a tip for Nocturnalist? E-mail us.
Tom Noonan February 18, 2011 · 9:50 am
This is news? I guess you have the same view about your so-called life.
TJHillgardner February 19, 2011 · 9:09 am
Is this an obituary for Rock 'n Roll? Seems like one. The corporations are taking over the world.
Jonny February 19, 2011 · 10:47 am
Sorry, Ms. Lewitinn, but rock and roll is still cool–just not the rockers you hang with. I loved Interpol's first two albums, but this isn't Lower East Side / Brooklyn in the early/mid 2000s. NYC is not the center of the indie rock world like it was back then. Past peak / fading / faded / clutching at straws / gone acts like Interpol, the Strokes, the National, and (sigh) my personal favorite, The Hold Steady, are not the cool bands they used to be. They're the same bands covering the same ground they've already covered before. If I were 22 today, and hanging in some dive bar, I doubt I'd be that excited about them.
There are other bands, in other places, hanging out in dirty bars, striving for success in the grit. They're just not Interpol.
w February 19, 2011 · 1:22 pm
i liked boy division, er, interpol's first release. but this article tells me today is a VERY slow news day for the times.
St Mark February 19, 2011 · 2:47 pm
Black & White = far more fun.
a nyc native and intellgient reader February 19, 2011 · 5:21 pm
MMM Maybe this reporter should apply for a job at "Time out New York"
skater242 February 21, 2011 · 8:56 am
Oh, I'm so cool, i get to buy overpriced drinks and hang out with a has-been band!!!
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