"We had reached a point where we didn't feel like we could do anything for him," said one mother of her son Mario, who had grown into an angry teenager with drug and alcohol problems. "He was out of control and he needed help."  In a last-ditch attempt to save their children, the parents turned to an innovative wilderness therapy program in Albany, Ore.  The rules are strict: the teens are strip-searched for drugs and weapons before setting out on a grueling 21-day trek. In blistering temperatures, they hike with four counselors in single-file carrying 45-pound packs on their backs. Water breaks are taken only at scheduled intervals  no exceptions.  At night, in group therapy, the teens share what brought them to the brink. The climax of the trip for most participants is the "solo"  three days and three nights of complete isolation and intense introspection.  Do wilderness therapy programs really work? How does a trek help troubled kids confront pent-up feelings of anger and pain?  Rob Cooley, a licensed psychologist and executive director of Catherine Freer Wilderness Therapy Expeditions, joined an online discussion with ABCNEWS.com readers on Friday, May 24. A transcript appears below.  Also: Read Chris Cuomo's report for Primetime Thursday.  Moderator At what point would you say a teenager is "out of control"?  Rob Cooley From the point of view of a wilderness program or a residential treatment program, it's when a young person is not willing to work with their parents anymore or an outpatient treatment program to solve their problems  and they continue to be self destructive in significant ways.  This would include things like dropping out of school, alcohol and drug use and driving in vehicles with people who are drinking or on drugs (i.e. putting themselves in risky situations).  Other behavior to watch for: peer group changes, where your child starts hanging out with a different group of friends who aren't a good influence on them, or dropping out of healthy activities they've been involved in like schools sports, drama clubs etc.  Another important thing is when kids become destructive in the family (i.e. frequent arguments with parents or siblings). We often hear from a younger or older sibling who say they're terrified for their brother or sister's well-being.  Moderator Who is a good candidate for your program? Is there an age requirement?  Rob Cooley There is an age requirement. Our kids are 13 - 18.  Certainly teens with alcohol or drug use are good candidates for the program as well as young people with real behavioral problems who are being defiant with their parents, dropping out of school, not coming home at night, etc.  Other candidates are young people with serious emotional problems like depression, grief and loss (often over family issues) and kids with ADHD and learning disabilities who often feel lousy about themselves because they've been failing in school. We also see a fair number of adopted children who are dealing with real identity struggles.  In all these cases, families should try outpatient therapy first. It works in most cases. Programs like ours are really the last-ditch effort to save a child.  Moderator Have there been any studies on the success rate of wilderness therapy programs?  Rob Cooley Yes, there have been a surprising number of studies. Dr. Keith Russell at the University of Idaho has catalogued them.  We have done seven studies on our program since 1992. The most recent one is done with Dr. Russell and the University of Idaho which shows the average child entering a wilderness treatment program has approximately the same level of problems as a young person entering a psychiatric hospital.  When they leave from the wilderness treatment 3-8 weeks later (depending on the program) they score in a range that's average for normal functioning teenagers and their scores improve even further over the next 12 months.  You can find out more about the research at the following Web address: www.ets.uidaho.edu/wrc/  David asks: What percentage of your kids fall into the same patterns when they get home?  Rob Cooley What we have found in our outcome studies is that the first month or so after they get home, most of our graduates do very well. Then they usually start to have some problems again for several months, and then get better again one year or later. That mirrors the national research that I was talking about.  It's very important that they get after-care treatment from good outpatient therapists, and it's important they get good support from their parents.  Some need to go on to longterm residential programs, like two of the kids on the Primetime show. The majority of our kids return home right away. The three kids that were not featured on Primetime went home to their families where they got good support and after-care. They're all doing very well.  That's not to stay it's easy. It's hard work for these kids to stay sober, to go to school every day and to work openly with their parents. And it's taken a lot of effort by their parents also.  Moderator Some people in our audience say parents need to shoulder more of the blame for their kids' problems.  Marianne Duke writes: "The parents of these kids should have been required to 'pony up' to their kids that they (the parents) should never have been parents. The parents owe their children an apology."  Jamie sends in the following: "Why the focus on the kids' problems, while no mention or analysis of the parents' problems? Sending your children away is a poor excuse for parenting. The 'parents' I saw have some answering to do to themselves."  And Laurel says: "What irks me about therapy directed at the teens only is that it doesn't appear to address the root of the problem: parents with unhealed shame and unidentified demons of their own."  Rob Cooley The first thing I'd say is it's not about blame. These kids would not be at our program if their parents didn't care about them. The parents are using resources to get their kids here and they're attending all-day meetings before and after the trek to learn how to do a better job of helping their kids.  Almost all of these parents have been working with family therapy before the kids get here, and continue to do so after they return home.  It's difficult in the modern world to raise children. There have been tremendous changes in this country since the 1950s, when it used to be fairly easy.  I don't think that there's any point in blaming parents or schools or police departments or anybody for what's happening in our country for kids. But it is a problem we all need to work together to solve.  Moderator From Sylvain: "People put way too much stock in the family unit. It's really up to the individual whether or not they want to participate in a family environment. I think the parents shunned responsibility by throwing these kids into this environment without their consent. These parents are doing more damage than good."  Rob Cooley Virtually all the children that come to our program are on the verge of risking their lives and their futures, by any reasonable measure.  These aren't kids who are just in a little bit of trouble. If their parents didn't make very serious efforts on their behalf, they would be remiss in their responsibilities.  Most of the kids who come to our program do come voluntarily. Some of them do not and are very much in denial about their problems and about the risks they are taking with their future lives.  These kids, however, come to realize they do need help and are appreciative to their parents for getting that help to them. Even Mario, angry as he was about the trek, got over it and in the end was expressly grateful to his parents for putting him in the program.  Moderator Wilma says: "I see so many children who are close to the edge like the teens on your show. Why do you think our youth are so despondent? What causes them such depths of despair? What leads them to believe it's 'ok' or 'normal' to be involved in the behaviors they are engaged in?"  Rob Cooley Many of the supports that once existed for raising children no longer exist. We have neighborhoods where no adults are home during the day. Children come home to empty houses and empty streets and no adult guidance.  Our police departments, our social service agencies and our schools have been overwhelmed and are no longer able to respond to every individual child who has difficulties.  Moderator A question from Melissa: "What made you decide to help kids in the way you do, and where did you begin?"  Rob Cooley Like most therapists, I had my own share of problems growing up and learning how to be a reasonably successful adult. My response to that has been to try to give back to others some of the good fortune and great assistance I've had in living my life.  In the 1980s, as our problems with raising children in society became increasingly obvious, it became clear to me that we needed some new ways to help kids and families.  I grew up on the McKenzie River in Oregon and had been running a river guide service for kids part time for many years and knew from my own personal experience, and from watching the young people on my whitewater rafting trips, how healing outdoor time can be.  So it seemed natural for me to combine the outdoors and really good therapy.  Morning Schoberg asks: Do teens have to be in certain physical shape in order to take part in one of these treks?  Rob Cooley No, they don't have to be in good physical condition  and indeed many of them are not. Most of them have been smoking, using drugs and not exercising regularly.  We don't expect these kids to wear a 45-pound backpack and take off into the woods at 10 miles a day. The first week, if they can hike 2 or 3 miles a day, that's great. If the slowest kid can only hike 1 mile a day, then that's what we do.  We want them to be challenged, and we hope the kids will be tired at the end of the day, but we don't want them to be exhausted either.  We do check carefully, of course, for underlying medical problems like back problems, joint injuries, etc. Our program may not be appropriate for kids with these types of problems.  Leah Christopher asks: Are you prepared for these young kids if they should become violently ill due to the withdrawal from drugs?  Rob Cooley If they've been using drugs to such an extent that they need a medical detox, we'd require them to go to a residential or medical facility before coming to our program.  Lyn asks: What type of training have the counselors on the wilderness trek had?  Rob Cooley For each group of about six or seven kids we have three staff members. One of them is a licensed therapist who has an MA or a Masters of Social Work or is a certified alcohol and drug counselor. They've usually had 2-5 years of work experience before coming to our program.  The lead wilderness guide has first aid training, either as an EMT or as a Wilderness First Responder. These guides have several years of outdoor experience and most have worked with troubled kids before.  The third guide is often a new guide for us, learning about our program.  One of the most important things about our staff is that their average age is over 30, so they've had some real life experience and bring some maturity and wisdom to helping young adults.  We get hundreds of applications every year (including 15 this morning as a result of the show!). There are lots of people in their 20s or 30s who are actively looking to dedicate part of their lives to helping kids.  S. Mueller asks: If this is designed to help the kids, then why is it so very expensive? Some of the people who really need this wouldn't be able to afford it.  Rob Cooley Our program was specifically designed to help working families. In Oregon as in many other states, there are good state-funded programs to assist families who don't have a lot of income.  There are also many wonderful private programs for families that can afford $40,000 a year or more for good residential treatment.  What has been missing are programs that might be of assistance to those families in the middle income range.  Most of our Oregon families are able to get health insurance assistance which in Oregon usually pays 80 percent of the cost of the program because we are state-licensed as a mental health and an alcohol and drug treatment program.  Because we are also certified by the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations (JCAHO), health insurance companies in many other states may also pay part of the cost.  Rob Cooley I'd like to add that there's a silent partner in these wilderness programs: public land agencies, United States Forest Service, and the Bureau of Land Management.  These agencies have recognized the importance of wilderness treatment programs and have been very supportive of such programs by granting permits for the use of public land.  BR asks: How do we find out more information about this type of therapy? Web site, books, where do we start?  Rob Cooley Visit these Web addresses: www.NATSAP.org (National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs); www.OBHIC.com (Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare Industry Council); www.IECAonline.com (Independent Educational Consultants Association).  The most important resource is your local family therapist and your local drug and alchohol treatment programs  a good place to start if your child is having trouble.  Moderator at 3:21pm ET Thanks to Rob Cooley and those who joined the chat! If you'd like to join another live discussion, please visit our community index.  Moderated by ABCNEWS.com's Saira Stewart
- In this week's    Primetime Thursday, </     Chris Cuomo follows a group of six troubled teenagers as they embark on a journey of physical and emotional survival deep in the wilderness of southwestern Oregon.