For a branch of fashion that matters to very few people, haute couture generates serious debate. In early July, Dior will celebrate its 60th anniversary with a show at Versailles. Valentino will have a 45th blow-out in Rome. Thereâs a sense, however, that couture is again in some kind of transit phase. The Valentino company has a new owner and thereâs a question of what will happen to couture when Valentino retires. This past Thursday, in Paris, I sat down with Alber Elbaz to ask what couture means to a younger generation of design innovators. What would induce a designer like Elbaz, or Marc Jacobs, or Nicolas Ghesquiere, to want to be part of an old-school couture house? Are theyâand fashionâmissing something?  Elbaz: You know, almost every collection I do has 200 different references. I donât have two of the same coat, two of the same dress. I have it in one color, in one fabric. Iâve tried to adapt the culture of couture, and the know-how and the heritage, but I try to update it.  A couple of things have changed in womenâs lives. Twenty or 30 years ago, they had different bodies. They werenât so into sports and exercise. Bodies were very difficult to fit then. And I donât think women in the past were as emotionally strong as they are today. It was very important for them to look beautiful. Now they want to be smart, active. So fashion is not enough anymore. Itâs not just about what you wear. I mean, I donât know how many women can afford to take the time to come to Paris for three fittings.  I think itâs important to still support couture because weâre supporting a technique, a dream. The problem with couture is not designers; itâs what happens when the couturier will no longer be there. When you go to the big ateliers, almost everybody is in his or her 60s. I spoke about it with Karl Lagerfeld and he said at Chanel there are also a lot of young people. But in many houses the age of the workers is quite high. What will happen in five years?  Q: But do you think the knowledge will be lost if young designers like yourself donât pursue couture?  A: If I donât have an atelier, I am a paralyzed man. But when I started working at Saint Laurent, I inherited two ateliers from the haute couture. I gave them a jacket and I got it back three weeks later. It took them three weeks to make a jacket. I had a flou atelier with 20 people and one sewing machine. ONE. Everything was done by hand. Try and get a skirt made quickly. Itâs a big question you are asking. Do you keep the past by going forward or do you have to maintain it in order to exist?  Almost everybody I work with at Lanvin is from the haute couture. So I work with all those seamstresses and pattern-cutters that did couture. Theyâre no longer doing the made-to-measure, but theyâre still doing clothes the same way.  I work on fittings mostly. You know, I sketch less and less in my work. I sketch for the show sometimes, but then it becomes more conceptual. But when I donât sketch it becomes more pragmatic.  Q: But do you think Chanel and Valentino need to have haute couture once Lagerfeld and Valentino decide to retire?  A: Iâm going to contradict myself big time. I had lunch recently with the president of DeBeers and I asked him who his competitors were. He said, âArt.â When you have a million dollars in your bank account ready to be burned, you have a choice today to buy a diamond ring or a painting.  You know, when Mr. Beene finished designing, he finished. When Mr. Saint Laurent finished, he finished. There was no continuation. If Valentino and Chanel want to continue, let it be. Who are we to say if itâs right? If they love doing couture, if dressing 20 celebrities for the red carpet and some rich ladies around the world makes them happy, go for it. Go for whatever you believe in as a long as you donât fake it. I donât know how to do sportswear pieces with, like, seven pockets. [Elbaz laughs.] If you sent me to work for Banana Republic, theyâd fire me in a week.  But back to DeBeers. I see also another thing happening in the world. I read these stories in financial newspapers that say a business was sold for $3 billion. Wow! Or someoneâs salary is $75 million. Doing what? Reading some lines? [He laughed.] Iâm dying here. Weâre working our asses off, and we donât even get close to one eighth of an eighth. So, Iâm saying that maybe now with all this big money thereâs going to be a new couture client.  Q: Yes, but people said that in the 90s with the high-tech explosion. But I donât see folks from Microsoft or Google at couture. Theyâre into art, maybe.  A: Yes, but when they have the art in the house, next they want the dress. To go next to the swimming pool.  Q: Nan Kempner may have been ga-ga for couture, but she also appreciated the craft and fit. Can a generation raised in casual clothes suddenly acquire this appreciation?  A: I believe they will. Theyâre not dumb people. Theyâve made a lot of money. These are also the kind of people who mad their money themselves. And theyâre new women with a new lifestyle. Theyâre working women. Theyâre something more pragmatic about their needs.  Q: One snag for coutureâs future is time. People want beautiful things but they want them faster. And designers have to turn out other stuff today, like handbags and shoes?  A: How do we define haute couture? Is it one-of-a-kind? Is it all about made-to-measure? For me, itâs about being innovative and going forward. Cutting in a different way. Taking fabrics and developing them. I see all these Macintoshes being glued today, and I think, Letâs see what happens there. Can we move that idea forward? Thatâs what couture is for me. Itâs the ability to innovate.  I always sayâIâve said it a hundred timesâfashion and food are alike. Take French cuisine and just cut out a little bit of the butter and the fat. The recipe is divine. Take haute couture: Itâs beautiful. I could not live without my atelier. Well, do it in a different way.  Q: Donât you think Chanel does it in a modern way?  A: Iâm sure Chanel does. Karl is a very, very good designer. Heâs very intelligent. And Valentino, too. I was thinking of going to the Valentino show in Rome, just to give respect to a man whoâs been doing this for 45 years. How many dresses heâs designed! How many women heâs made look beautiful!  Q: If you own a jacket made by hand in Paris, you know thereâs a difference in the way it fits and feels on your body. A lot of designers like to use handwork because it makes their garments more special and harder to copy. But a garment thatâs entirely constructed by hand feels different, because of the way the fabric is handled. Doesnât this matter in the long run to fashion?  A: There is something special about clothes that are made by women and not by machine. They do something for the clothes. There is a huge difference when I see a suit, or pants and a shirt being done by the atelier, and the same pieces done by a factory. Itâs an emotion. Zara canât copy that. Maybe thatâs why we do almost all the clothes at Lanvin on the body.  Q: The issue of time is interesting, though.  A: The older generation of couturiers had more time to create. They created less, they were protectedânobody could see their work. They were working in a cocoon. They were not celebrities. They were technicians, in a way. Today, when all the designers see each other, itâs what we talk aboutâthe lack of time. Weâre like sisters in a big family!  But there are good things and bad things about not having enough time. Not having time can help you create a kind of fearless fashion. You are forced to touch only whatâs essential, whatâs important, and what isnât false.  Q: For sure, Paris couture will be another story in 10 years.  A: But the knowledge wonât be lost. You know, I was trained by Mr. Beene, then I was re-educated at Saint Laurent. I learned from two masters. I learned from their techniques. Have you ever seen those corsets of Saint Laurent? There was a corset and then on top, a chiffon dress. Those dresses were like air. And you saw the nipples of the girls and you thought, How could that happen under a corset? Well, there is a certain corset that is cut around the bust, so that itâs out. It gives the bust a fragility, so it doesnât look like a Toyota. [He laughed.] You see how Mr. Beene would take one dart and bring it to another place. Whatever Iâve learned from them, I have given to people who have worked with me. They take everything that I taught them and they continue. So there you go. Couture cannot die.
On the Runway, The Times's blog on all things fashion, takes you to the front row of fashion shows, behind the scenes at ateliers and houses around the world and inside the minds of designers.