Liz Kelly: Welcome back. I just took a quick peek at the questions piling up and it looks like we may be devoting a lot of today's discussion to Tiger, but hey, there's a lot to say. The latest: Rachel Uchitel canceled today's skedded press conference. TMZ claims it has something to do with a phone convo last night between Tiger and Uchitel. And RadarOnline is buzzing about an alleged $1 million payoff. All specualation, but as I wrote yesterday, maybe this is what comes of not meeting the rumors head on.  Here's a question I have: Yesterdsay's poll, in which I asked whether Tiger should make a public statement -- meaning behind a camera, not via his Web site -- 65 percent of respondents said "No, he has a right to his privacy." Really? I'm wondering if this was wishful thinking on our part -- maybe painting ourselves as a bit further above the fray than we actually are. What do you think?  I also wanted to put last Friday's list of the  back on the table. It's open for dispute, discussion, additions, etc. And, yes, Tiger may have a case for a late addition to the list.  Tomorrow, we'll be compiling an equivalent list of women. What to call it, though -- Comely Skanks? Help, please.  Alrighty, it's 64 degrees in D.C. on Dec. 3. I'm eating a homemade gingerbread cookie. Life is good. Let's get started...  RE: Top Ten Dirtbags: Nice Top Ten Dirtbag list last week, sorry I missed it while I was making Thanksgiving goodies. Have to give it up for Sam Elliott!  Have you ever watched "Sons of Anarchy" on FX? The main character Jaxx (Charlie Hunnam) is quite the hot dirtbag himself (and he's British!)  washingtonpost.com: Celebritology : Hot Dirtbags: The top 10  Liz Kelly: I haven't, but given your recommendation, I might just have to check it out. That's the show with Katey Sagal, right?  Washington, D.C.: Liz, Tiger cheated on his wife and the mother of his two young children. There is no excuse for it and he deserves all the negative attention he has been given.  However, after viewing the condition of his car, the smashed out back windows, and the reports of cuts on his lips and face it is pretty clear to me that his wife did the damage to the car prior to the accident and probably some of the damage to Tiger himself.  If Tiger had been interviewed by police, this would've come to light and charges probably would've been filed against his wife. In this instance, Tiger chose to protect his wife and for that I commend him. If I ever cheat on my wife (which I would never) than she deserves the right to beat me senseless with a golf club and I will not press charges. Some people may cry that there is a double standard when it comes to women abusing men. To that I say of course there is! Shouldn't there be!  washingtonpost.com: Also, will we start hearing about "fiery, hot-tempered Swedes" from now on?  Liz Kelly: Here's the thing -- if we assume that Elin did a bang up job on Tiger (and we don't know that), we're getting awfully close to condoning physical violence. It would never be accepted as "deserved" if it were the other way around and I'm of the mind that while a novelty, for sure, we should be mindful of the fact that there are a large number of men battered by their wives/girlfriends, that it often goes unreported and that to cheer anyone for taking that kind of action could be dangerous.  Tiger and Elin are in counseling now, according to some reports, and that may be the best place for them. Tiger can perhaps internalize the fact that he's a low down dirty dog and Elin can find other ways to express her disapproval of said dirt-doggedness.  Bethesda, Md.: This is probably a bizarre aspect of the Tiger story to get hung up on, but I'm irritated by all the people who say, "What if the roles were reversed, and Elin were the victim?" Domestic violence is terribly underreported, and, even when reported, often under-prosecuted because the victim refuses to go forward. That's why Florida and other states have laws on the books permitting or requiring prosecution even where the victim refuses to press charges. All of this, as I understand it, is based on what we've (unfortunately) come to know about the dynamics of abusive relationships.  So, does anyone really think those dynamics are present in Tiger's marriage? I.e., that one of the richest, most recognizable men in the world would somehow be too intimidated or fearful to come forward and report abuse? Can one of the role-reversers please tell me what point, exactly, you're trying to make?  washingtonpost.com: I'm not a role-reverser -- or at least not on weekdays -- but the tone of amusement or the "he got what was coming to him" vibe would not be reflected if the roles were reversed.  Liz Kelly: This person says the same thing, basically, I did above -- just more eloquently and with more concrete information. Thanks.  Baltimore: Liz: I know you have lawyers who read and post to the chat, so I hope someone can answer this. According to the Post today, the Salahis have retained a New York law firm named LaBoeuf and Dewey to represent them. (Is Shia practicing law now?) Seriously, my question is, given the long, long string of unpaid debts these people have left behind, why would a law firm agree to represent them? Have they handed over a check that has already cleared, or what? Thanks.  Liz Kelly: I'll go ahead and put this out there for our legal team to answer.  I'm embarrassed that I know this, but Pamela Bach, reportedly arrested for DUI recently, played Daisy Duke on the Dukes of Hazzard. Catherine Bach is David Hasselhoff's ex-wife, is she not? Two different people. How did People magazine not catch this?  Liz Kelly: Scratch that, reverse. Catherine Bach played Daisy. Here's her wiki page and, according to said page, Bach herself -- unhappy with the network supplied warddrobe -- created her short short "Daisy Dukes" herself. I'd like to see Jessica Simpson bring that kind of creativity and commitment to a role.  , veteran of such memorable TV as "Baywatch" and movies, too, including one titled "Nudity Required."  Fairfax, Va.: I am sure many of the comments received today regarding Tiger Woods are of the "Leave Tiger Alone" variety. Heck, Wilbon here at your very own paper suggests that Tiger is no big deal because, you know, all male sports figures are always gettin' what they can.  Yet here's the thing. Tiger is different. I despise golf. I cannot play the game and find myself admitting to random crimes when forced to watch it. But I liked Tiger. I liked him enough that I sorta kinda trusted him when he said that I should consider purchasing certain cars, or shoes, or processed cheese curls. I realize this was naive of me, but I did.  So when I discover that he isn't quite who I thought he was, well, it does sting.  washingtonpost.com: Wilbon -- The company Tiger keeps  Liz Kelly: Yep. I tried yesterday to get at that enchanted quality of Tiger's that had us all convinced he walked two feet above the ground and could do no wrong. His carefully crafted image was built on a bedrock of the guy's wholesomeness.  It's like finding out a chaste aunt led a secret life as a stripper.  Or is it? Should we really be so surprised that a human being is, after all, only human?  I've heard Natalie Portman is not nice...: ...can you confirm or correct?  Liz Kelly: Haven't met Natalie, so no, I can't. I'm sure she's nice, though, when stoned.  that she is an occasional pot smoker.  I can tell you that her new movie, "Brothers," looks like a massive stinker.  Anonymous: From the WaPo story on Michaele Salahi crashing the Redskins cheerleaders' events: "For her to get out there and think she can just shake her pompoms is upsetting"  I think "shake her pompoms" should henceforth join the Celebritology lexicon to mean any time a girl/woman is trying to flaunt herself, get her name in the news, etc.  Liz Kelly: I like it.  So we could rewrite my intro to say "Rachel Uchitel today reversed course and opted to not  at an afternoon news conference."  Sam Elliott: I liked him as Gar in Mask.  Liz Kelly: Same. Very similar to his "Road House" character.  On Sunday, Mr. Liz and I happened to catch "The Outsiders" (one of my favorite movies) on cable, and there was some serious hot dirtbaggery going on there. Matt Dillon. Yes please.  Bronx, NY: Yay for "Twits!" Thank you, Liz, for a few minutes of celebrity silliness, no golf clubs involved. But why was I totally expecting the word "jail" after that ellipsis in Nick Hogan's second entry?  Liz Kelly: It wouldn't be surprising.  And I should add that this was taped before Nick had his most recent fender bender. So we weren't really trying to kick him while he's down. It just worked out that way!  Jack Nicholson: Is there such a category as Dirtbag Emeritus, as for retired distinguished faculty?  Liz Kelly: I don't know. The paunch factor kind of cancels out the dirtbag hotness.  Fairfax, Va.: Okay, it's one thing to fib to the Secret Service, but when you lie to a bunch of cheerleaders, well, I figure Michaele Salahi is in for a world of hurt.  washingtonpost.com: Cheerleaders get fired up about Salahi  Liz Kelly: Yeah, these two just seem to get seedier and seedier. You know it's bad when a castmember from "Real Housewives of N.J." is faulting your decision-making.  5. Iggy Pop: Eeew. He's anorexic. I'd put in Viggo Mortenson.  And I wouldn't put Tiger on this list. If one of the criteria is being attractive.  Liz Kelly: Viggo almost made the list -- as Aragorn in "LOTR." He had the requisite layer of grime there.  dirtbag addition: okay. My husband thinks I'm crazy but I have always had something for Tommy Lee Jones. Yes, I realize he's like 70 or something. But you can't tell me he wasn't smokin' in "Fugitive" and "US Marshals" as the marshal with the dry humor and the direct and steely gaze....  Liz Kelly: Okay, I can see that. I'm not there with you, but I can see that.  Expectations...: Expectations of Tiger Woods... it just hit me. People "expected" him to be a certain kind of person because he endorsed products and plays golf so extraordinarily well. He never claimed to be this kind of guy or that guy to anyone. This is really bugging me. Everyone knows endorsing products is for money. Someone stated he showed photos of his family like he was proud. He was proud. He was also screwing around. Do you know how many jerks fool around and yes, love and feel proud of their families? This is getting insane! What planet are people from? Open your eyes to this very real part of life!  Liz Kelly: Hold on -- just because he never came out and said "I am a paragon of purity and can do no wrong" does not mean that isn't the image, the Tiger brand, we've been spoonfed for the last decade or so. It was financially expedient.  Salahi's Lawyers: Why would they represent these deadbeats? Because the publicity generated by the case could be worth more to one's practice then any fees they could pay.  epjd (who should be drafting a pleading): Domestic violence is never acceptable. Just because he cheated does not give her right to beat him. Walk out? Yes. Take him for everything in a divorce? Yes. Hit him with a hand or a weapon? NO.  As for why Tiger would be intimidated to report. It's not reported for a lot of reasons. One of them is embarassment. Many professional people who are battered do not report it because they believe they should have prevented it or not been in the situation to begin with. That as professionals, they should be able to handle things better. Truth is battering occurs across all soci-ecnomic strata. It takes no notice of education, money, skin color, religion, celebrity status or anything else.  Guys tend not to report because they are embarrassed they "got beat up by a girl."  Washington, DC: Can anyone explain why stylists across the city continue to do the gate-crashers hair when they never pay their bills??  Liz Kelly: Bravo may be footing some of those bills now.  My Mom's Take on Tiger: My elderly conservative mother said the other day that men like Tiger's big mistake (aside from being morally questionable and having really poor judgment) is that they believe women still don't have rights to their own stories. Her point being that when Tiger engaged in his affairs, it became part of the private lives of his mistresses,too, and they have as much right to talk about it as he has not to. She sees powerful men and their affairs as very much dependent on having almost complete control over the women in their lives and that doesn't sit well with her.  Liz Kelly: Your mother speaks some truth. She's right -- those stories are Rachel's and Jamiee's to tell, or sell. In engaging in relationships -- however brief -- with them, Tiger opened himself up to the possibility of it all blowing up in his face. Now it has and it isn't anyone's fault but his.  I know this isn't Reliable Source but...: The Salahis are Heidi and Spencer + 20 years. I'm sick of talking about these people, I'm sure you are too, but the connection struck me yesterday. They both seem to be couples that are willing to make themselves look like "bad guys" as long as they get something in exchange, (e.g. publicity.) Or maybe they have nothing in common, but all that excessively blond hair has dazzled my critical thinking skills.  Liz Kelly: I am totally sick of the Saladis. I think they've managed to eke 45 extra minutes of fame out of this thing and are long overdue for a return to the fringe of social-climbers. By the time "Real Housewives of D.C." premieres, let's hope they're old news.  Hot dirtbag, comely skanks: Brad Pitt in "Thelma and Louise."  Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman." But actually did anyone really believe she was a hooker?  Alex Kingston as "Moll Flanders."  Liz Kelly: Hmmm, good nominees all.  I still need the right name for the chick list, tho.  Tommy Lee Jones is another category: Rather than dirtbag, there is that category of men I think of so ugly they're handsome. You know that French actor Jean Reno? He is not good looking but wow is he, um, good-looking. Knowwhatimean? Harvey Keitel.  Liz Kelly: Right. We've had similar discussions here before. I think we arrived at the term "ugly hot" or "hot ugly."  Brittany Murphy: fired and troubled, or just misunderstood?: Between the lip injections and crazy eyes, I am more inclined to believe that Brittany Murphy was fired from her latest film rather than choosing to leave for "creative differences," Am I off base here?  Here's her PR defense:Brittany Murphy Denies Being Fired from Movie  The case for the prosecution, seems to be stacking up: -Having a weird appearance on Craig FergusonBrittany Murphy's Sudden Irish Accent: Drinking or Nerves?  -Getting fired off another film recentlyBrittany Murphy Gets Kicked Off Another Movie  -Perez (take w/a grain of salt as always)Brittany Murphy Fired From Upcoming Film!  Liz Kelly: Zzzzz. Brittany is a whackadoodle. Case closed.  Rupert Everett - failed career b/c he was out, or for other reasons?: RE makes a good point that Hollywood is hesitant to accept an out gay man (Neil Patrick Harris aside, who is not a leading man in films), but couldn't the fact that he is 1) way too outspoken (i.e. a bridge burner) 2) has had bad plastic surgery 3) maybe isn't super talented -- the reason he has failed to have a superstar career?  Liz Kelly: I'm leaning toward him being kind of a difficult guy to get along with -- he's not so much outspoken as crass. The guy has written a couple of books and spread a lot of nastiness in the form of digs at other celebs.  Alex P. Keaton's mom: Does anybody actually care that Meredith Baxter is gay? How awkward/shabby was that Today show announcement? They had all these teasers starting at 7 a.m. that Meredith Baxter was there to make a surprising announcement of a very personal nature.  So how does that work anyway: you call The Today Show and say "I'd like to come out."  Liz Kelly: Yeah, kind of underwhelming. It might have been more exciting had she made the announcement at the peak of her "movie of the week" run.  Tiger and Rachel : Why would someone like this Rachel chick want to compete for whoredom? Obviously she changed her story after the Jaimee person sold her story to the media. Really I don't think there is enough money that would make me want to shame myself or my family like those dimwits have.  Liz Kelly: Whoa -- I think we need to be careful with our verbage. The women aren't really the villains in this scenario. Tiger is. He's the one who is married. Rachel, Jaimee -- if they had a dalliance with Tiger, so be it. Neither is married, neither under any obligation to honor Tiger's -- or anyone else's -- marriage vows.  The "W" word is going way too far and connotes that Tiger would have been a faithful husband if it weren't for these loose women throwing themselves at his feet.  Reese and Jake?: On? Off? Ginning up PR interest because Jake has a movie opening? Total sham from Day One?  Liz Kelly: But Jake's movie doesn't come out until May, right? It's a bit early to start drumming up a tabloid frenzy. For now, the two are denying a split, so I guess that means they're still together.  Name for new list: Hot messes? 'Nuff said.  Liz Kelly: Ooh. Ooh. You win!  Skanky Sexy Siren Nomination: Hi Liz, I've got to admit a real thing for Carmen Elektra.  She doesn't seem deluded about her fame - so she's cool with being a sexpot discovered by Prince.  Liz Kelly: Another good nominee -- for Carmen and for the list name. Drat.  Dirtbag Jobs: I've read your definition of Dirtbag and I'm still confused. Your definition included the AND/OR condition of physical grime AND/OR some degree of moral turpitude. If being physically grimy without having moral turpitude qualifies, doesn't that mean that Mike Rowe should be on your Dirtbag List?  Liz Kelly: He should -- but I had to stop myself at 10. He didn't make that cut. There's always next year.  Naivete: With all due respect (really) --  To say "We trusted him; he let us down" (re: Tiger) exhibits a level of naivete that is just stunning to me, esp in your line of work, Liz. People actually believe everything that Nike or IMG says? They are in the BUSINESS of manipulating, of creating falsehoods.  I really don't get people's need for a hero. I really don't.  Liz Kelly: Carm down. Some did really look up to Tiger and admire his seemingly admirable qualities. People like my teenage nephew, and trust me, it isn't easy to find someone worth admiring that a teenaged boy will actually admit to liking.  But it isn't necessarily that we literally trusted him. It is that we were fed a carefully crafted image of the guy as saintlike. There's a certain element of schadenfreude here -- some of us are interested because there is a certain satisfaction in seeing someone pushed on us as superhuman exposed as merely human.  Salahi's Salon: I wouldn't have paid the bill either if my hair came out looking like hers did. I mean, really. Such a stringy mess that I noticed it on the first picture, even before the hullabaloo really started.  On an unrelated note, I'm outraged by the Salahis and of the state of reality TV in general. If they are picked for "Realhousewives of DC" I will boycott all their advertisers. I still boycott Wendy's for something they did years ago. I can hold a grudge.  These people need to be blasted from the planet.  washingtonpost.com: You gave up Frostys! You are a person of conviction, my friend.  Liz Kelly: Mmm... frosty. Twelve ounces of corn syrupy goodness.  But there's no way Bravo will pass up on the chance to include the Salahis -- unless prevented for legal reasons.  Cherry Hill, NJ: The women who were involved with Tiger don't get a pass here. It's public knowledge that the guy is married, a father and rich as Ft. Knox. They knew what they were doing too and didn't care about the potential consequences. While he's the one who's married, they were willing to ignore the fact righrt along with him. Then he expects honorable behvior from them when he asks them to delete their Caller ID names! Swanky Skanks.  Liz Kelly: I agree with the second part of your comment -- Tiger had no reason to expect loyalty from these women. But I do not hold them -- the women -- responsible for the potential consequences to Tiger's wife or family or finances. It's like blaming the chick behind the counter at Wendy's for selling a Frosty (see, it all ties together) to someone who is clearly morbidly obese. It isn't her fault the guy is obese and she knows the consequences of his downing that Frosty will likely be weight gain.  Bronx, NY again:: Jake Gyllenhaal plays the other man (brother) in Natalie Portman and Tobey McGuire's new movie. So, fair question from... whoever asked about him and Reese.  Liz Kelly: My bad. I was thinking "Prince of Persia." So, yes, fair question. The answer is still "I don't know."  Ooo ooo Viggoooo: Definitely Viggo gets my vote for playing Gwyneth Paltrow's hired killer/starving artist lover in 'Perfect Murder.'  He's got the dirty/mysterious/crazy/hot guy thing down in that film.  Liz Kelly: Yeah -- and he was hot when he did that Russian mafia movie, too.  Man...assas, Va.: Tiger and Letterman have the worst taste in women to have affairs with. I cannot believe tiger would cheat on that beautiful wife with barflys? What is up with that?  Liz Kelly: The rules of attraction don't always make sense to third parties. And I just don't think Tiger's beautiful wife was at the top of his mind when he was hanging out at Vegas clubs at 1:30 a.m.  Lexington, K.Y.: Hi Liz -- Really enjoy your chats. I read this AM that Tiger's wife received a multimillion dollar transfer of money to an account controlled only by her from him and that she is rewriting her prenup. How can anyone know this? Who would be the source? It seems like anyone who would really know, would be in lockdown right now. Thanks.  Liz Kelly: Right, there's that. It's likely speculation, but it's possible that Elin is anxious to get back a bit at Tiger and show that she's not a doormat. In that case, I could see her allowing a small controlled leak of some information that paints her as getting some kind of restitution.  epjd (who should be drafting a pleading): Gloria Allred canceled her press conference. Gloria "I never met a microphone I didn't love" Allred cancels a press conference!!!! Can we irresponsibility speculate as to why?  Liz Kelly: My first guess is that the entire press conference idea was a tactic -- a sort of deadline for Tiger and his camp to make some kind of overture to Rachel.  What to call Tigers (3 and counting!) girlfriends?: "Mistresses" seems so victorian. What do you advise calling these chicks he's stepping out on his wife with?  Also, if one of these women is a "Tool Academy" alum - I advise both Mr. and Mrs. Woods to scurry over to their doctor for a full STD screening. Ew.  Liz Kelly: Hmmm, how about "Side Dishes" ?  Bethesda, MD: Hot Mess Nominee: Drea de Matteo  Liz Kelly: Good one. Adriana would definitely fit the category.  Tampa, FL: All I can say about the Tiger situation is that I am just very sad. Sad for him, sad for his wife, sad for their families. I can't imagine what it is like in the Woods household right now.  There sure isn't going to be a lot of holiday cheer for them right now, but let's all hope that they get the counseling they both surely need right now and do what is best for themselves and their family in the long run, whether that means staying together or not.  Liz Kelly: Agreed. It's a sad situation all around.  Say WHAT?!: "...neither under any obligation to honor Tiger's -- or anyone else's -- marriage vows."  Um. So it's okay to bang a married man? That's his problem? And his unwitting wife's? Hmmm.  Liz Kelly: I'm just saying that in the equation of single person + married person, the onus is on the married person to honor his or her vows.  To the author of the first comment about abuse: You are clearly not a victim of domestic abuse by a woman. I am, and my advice to Tiger would be to get the hell out. As the bumper sticker says, there's NO excuse for domestic violence, regardless of the perp.  No problem if he chooses not to press charges, but IF this actually happened, for his own safety, he had better be somewhere else.  washingtonpost.com: Chatters in other discussions have also raised the Phil Hartman example, FWIW.  Liz Kelly: Good points, all.  Anonymous: I'll tell y'all what. I'll have an affair with Elin and it will be even. k?  Liz Kelly: That's very big of you. Thank you, Meredith Baxter.  other foot: If a particular celebrity created a "thug" image and used that thug image to sell products...and IF said celebrity actually went to prep school and had a degree in art history and spent their weekends volunteering at an animal shelter...would that celebrity's fans, who bought endorsed products because they wanted to be thuggish, be entitled to an apology?  washingtonpost.com: Sure, but good luck getting Vanilla Ice to give you one.  Hartford, Conn. - Hulk Hogan's taste in women: Am I the only one who's creeped out that Hulk Hogan's new fiancee looks like a carbon copy of his daughter/first wife?  ...At least the guy knows what he likes.  From the wrestling ring to the diamond ring! Hulk Hogan engaged to Jennifer McDaniel (N.Y. Daily News)  Liz Kelly: That whole family is just mind-boggling. They all have a type and it is... each other. Ick nast.  Frosty = sex: Please don't tell me that ordering and paying for a frosty is the same as entering into a relationship (of whatever kind). The Wendys employee is there specifically to take your money and hand over whatever you ordered. Those two women are not there to give Tiger whatever he wants (unless you're saying it's a financial transaction and he paid for that). Two different situations that don't compare.  Liz Kelly: Neither are they -- the women -- there to control Tiger's impulses. That's his job.  DC: I just don't understand why a man who is rich/famous/etc., and would have something to lose, chooses a cocktail waitress or "actress" or other X-factor with whom to have sex when there are probably some pretty discreet call girls out there. It's not like these guys are having "affairs" or intelligent conversation. It's just sex, and maybe a little ego-pumping, right?  washingtonpost.com: During the Kobe Bryant case, there was a lot of discussion that because he came from a very insular, overprotective family and management team, he didn't have a "fixer" type of shady character (think Keitel in "Pulp Fiction" -- see, it does all tie together) to arrange these things for him.  Liz Kelly: Again, the heart -- or portions south of the heart -- wants what it wants.  Cheetah Woods: Will Tiger now change his name from Tiger to Cheetah?  I totally disagree, Liz.: Usually I agree with everything you say, but you are really off on letting these women off the hook. They should be vilified as much as possible for cheating with him. I don't think the "W" word is too harsh. They are just as responsible as Tiger is, not less. They knew exactly what they were doing. Not sure if they thought Tiger would leave his wife and family for them, but obviously they were planning to get something out of the deal. Besides quality "Tiger time."  Liz Kelly: Oh, okay. Maybe we should force them to wear giant scarlet A's or W's on their clothes. Then a public stoning might make for a nice Super bowl halftime show.  No matter what their intentions, Tiger should have known better. He was the the one with everything to lose. He didn't just fall off the turnip truck. And he was likely surrounded by at least a few people telling him it was a bad idea.  I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.  best quote this week, possibly ever.: "That's very big of you. Thank you, Meredith Baxter. "  I did not see that coming! Im on a conference call for work and I just snorted. Thank god I'm on mute.  Liz Kelly: Yay! I live to make you snort!  Undisclosed location: Has anyone noticed that the National Enquirer is doing better investigative journalism (cf John Edwards and Tiger Woods) than say...some other national papers of note...with "real" news (cf WMD etc)?  washingtonpost.com: Slate's Jack Shafer has -- I Believe the National Enquirer. Why don't you?  Liz Kelly: I'll pass this along without comment.  Cheetah Woods: Hahahahahaha! Oh my goodness, tell me that this person ripped that off the New York Post or something. If not, they really need a job there writing headlines.  Liz Kelly: Yep. That was a good'n, alright.  methinks: I work in sports and know a lot of pro athletes. I once went to a wedding where the groom was wearing makeup to cover the bruises and scratches on his face received by his fiancee after she learned he went to a strip club as part of his bachelor party. They're still married. Go figure.  RE: "Sons of Anarchy"...watch it. I think you'd really dig it. Katey Sagal is my new hero. She's absolutely terrific in it. You'll forget all about Peg Bundy.  Liz Kelly: So athletes -- overpaid people surrounded by hordes of sychophants -- are behaving like rock stars? Who'da thunk it?  Hot Mess Nominee: Does the actress need to be a hot mess or can it be just her character? Because, even as a straight woman, I think Kate Austin is an amazingly hot mess. But I don't know if Evangeline Lilly would qualify....  Liz Kelly: Absolutely, characters count. I included at least one -- Josh Holloway as "Sawyer" on "Lost" -- on the guys list.  DC: So, it's not like Tiger is sitting by himself at the bar and gets himself picked up/or picks up. He's out with a posse. Some of whom are friends(?) and some of whom are paid to keep an eye on him. How do "they" let the man and the skank hook up?  Liz Kelly: Where there's a will...  washingtonpost.com: Liz, I'd like it to be known that every time I've been hit on by Angelina Jolie, Christina Hendricks, Scarlett Johansson and other married starlets, I totally turned them down, even though I had a few drinks in me. Because it would be wrong.  Liz Kelly: Good to know. We'll add to the public record. Thanks, Paul.  Ace Seattle, WA: Anyone who thinks they know what is happening in someone elses marriage is simply wrong.  We know he cheated, but we don't know anything else about what their marriage was like. We don't know that Tiger's wife was a saint, and did nothing at all that lead to him going outside the marriage.  When a wife withholds sex, I guess the man has to put up wiht it, or get divorced. But some men just cheat instead.  washingtonpost.com: You were doing so well until that last graph...  Here's a good exercise: Before hitting send, try reading these things to yourself out loud.  Cherry Hill: No, they're not responsible for the consequences to Tiger's family. But when the wife finds out and calls them in pain, are they shocked? Do they feign surprise? Do they apologize? Do they just not care? It would be refreshing to see one of these babes acknowledge that they helped wreck a family. Didn't drive the bus but surely they sat in the front seat - if not on the driver.  Liz Kelly: What should they say? "Gee, I'm sorry your husband is a lying let down? I wish I had not tempted him. Cuz otherwise I'm sure your marriage would be just peachy?"  washingtonpost.com: The 'Lost' Hour: Season 3 Review  Liz Kelly: Okay folks -- I'm out of here a couple of minutes early so I can prep for today's 3 p.m. "Lost" chat -- link above. This week, Jen and I will be joined by a very special guest -- actor/comedian Paul Scheer, who has been a central figure in this off-season's "LOST" alternate reality game. Join us, won't you?  If not, stay tuned for tomorrow's Hot Mess list and I'll see you back here next Thursday!  Women and married men: I agree with you. Tiger's moral obligations are HIS moral obligations. He's the one married to his wife, not the other women. The basic message is people expect the women he hits on to be more moral than he is. How very Victorian and how convenient for the cheating scumbag.  Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions. washingtonpost.com is not responsible for any content posted by third parties.
Join Celebritology blogger Liz Kelly to gab about the latest celebrity pairings (and splittings), rising stars (and falling ones) and get the scoop on the latest gossip making waves across the Web.