Just how far away is ACW/DACW? I realise it is unlikely for there to be a precise answer, but a rough idea would be useful. I was trying to map it on to English usage. Of course, the use of ‘yonder’ is now pretty much restricted to the phrase ‘over yonder’, but let’s go with that for the sake of argument. Where’s Fred? If Fred is on the other side of the room I would say ‘over there’. If Fred were at the far end of a football pitch I might well say ‘over yonder’. Is Welsh usage similar?
I guess so - it’s translated as ‘yonder’ in William Salesbury’s “A Dictionary of Englyshe and Welshe” (1549)
Great name for a band… O, wait…
I have never used ‘yonder’ except in poetry and SSiW! I thought it was now ‘archaic English’ - out of use. I’d say, “Fred is right over there!”
This is a common question in Spanish too (aquí/allí/allá = here/there/over there). FWIW, the in Spanish there is no specific rule about when to use what, just like in English: for example you could say that the ball is “there”, while pointing to it 10cm away from your foot. But if the person is far away from you, you would probably say that the ball is “here”. If the ball is closer to the person you would probably say it is “there”. But if it is quite far away from both of you (on the other side of the room or the other side of the oval, you may say it’s “over there”. I’ve been told that I probably use “over there” a little bit more than a monolingual English speaker. Interestingly, in some Spanish variants you can say that something is “aquí contigo” literally “here with you” even if the person is far away. In English, of course we would say “there with you”. I’m not sure if any of that is relevant for Cymraeg but I’d thought I’d share.
Edit for clarity and to correct and auto-correct mistake!
Yonder is a good (if dated!) translation of acw / dacw - it is used for things visible but out of reach (and a long way out of reach!). But I’ve certainly heard the hwntws using 'co (= (a)cw ) for general yna / dyna (see below) instead, so they don’t clearly don’t agree! They say things like 'Co fe! for There it is! - meaning there on the table, for example.
Yna / dyna is there for anything closer than that, while yno is there for things and places so far away that you cannot see them.
They’re all in the Grammar at §§418, 419
Well, I guess I must have imagined/invented that yna/yno were regional differences for the same thing…now I know the truth! This has been an interesting thread!
Yes, I’ve definitely heard it in Cumbria and the Scottish borders, admittedly a few years ago and probably by shepherds
In the (Welsh) Valleys, I’d be more likely to expect something like “over by there”.
Which to me overlaps very nicely with draw fan aco or dr’fynco.
I may be completely wrong on the following, but this is what my brain and experience in Cwm Tawe is telling me for pointing to someone a bit closer (but not too close) - “ma’ mynna” - pointing to something specifically at a reasonable distance, but not necessarily needing to be that far away, although it could be is “hwnna” or “fynna” and really close to me is just “fan hyn” - as in “iste fan hyn” - sit by here/there (to me when something is really close there is no distinction in English between here or there - it’s just a personal choice).
I love that word, and also “yon”, and would love to see them come back.
It was still in common use in my parents part of north-west England (south-west Cumbria, though it was then in Lancashire), in the 1950s and 1960s. Probably less so now.
Edit: Ah, good, @JohnYoung 's experience tallies with mine.
Now that I have definitely said!
I am sitting in my office at the moment and I’m wondering what lies far forth, beyond yonder hill in the distance (neu on i’n meddwl beth sy’n estyn ymhell tu hwnt y tyle drawfancw (drawfanco?) ar y pellter)
[quote=“louis, post:3, topic:11894”]
Great name for a band… O, wait…
Acw as mentioned above, means there/over there/yonder and is very common in the north but sometimes its meaning is rather cloudy. What people sometimes do is use it to mean both over there and our place/my place. For example you’ll often hear people say ‘dewch acw am baned’ to mean ‘come to our place/over to us for a cuppa’ and also say ‘nawn ni ddod acw am baned’ to mean ‘we’ ll come over (there/to you) for a cuppa’.