don't you know about the bird?? but everybody knows that the bird is the word
Surfen Vogel! Buuuuooolalalalalala@#$&@$@... bababababapabaumamamabapaumamama... Vogel, Vogel.. der Vogel ist das Wort!
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I thought it means that I haven't talked to that bird before, so I don't know that bird :P
"kein" is an indefinite article, so the sentence "Ich kenne kein Vogel" would mean "I know no bird" or "I don't know a bird"
EDIT: As pointed out by mizinamo, I should've said "Ich kenne keinen Vogel" due to "Vogel" being a masculine noun; however, my explanation of why "kein" is incorrect holds true. :)
I feel as though Kennen and Wissen should be taught more distinctly. Kennen is to be familiar with, or to know a person. Whereas Wissen is to know, a fact. For exampleL Ich kenne den Film "Iron Man 3" However, Ich weiss wo sie ist.
I was actually wondering if there was a similar type of distinction in German as there is in Spanish and French. In French, it's the same thing with "savoir" and "connaître."
I believe there was something like that in English but the other word was given a different meaning. It sounded like lore. I am sorry I'm not to keen on the history of the English language.
It was ‘to wit’; it's from the same source as German ‘wissen’, Swedish ‘veta’ and Dutch ‘weten’.
G. ‘kennen’, as well as S. ‘känna’ and D. ‘kennen’, started out as causatives for the same word that gave rise to English ‘can’. Originally it meant ‘to make known’. Some E. dialects still have ‘to ken’ which may mean ‘to know, perceive, understand, discover by sight (obsolete), catch the/a sight of (obsolete)’ which has the same source.
Related to E. ‘can’ are G. ‘können’, S. ‘kunna’ and D. ‘kunnen’. Originally it meant ‘to know, to be able to’, but its current derivatives only retain the latter meaning.
It is believed the PIE sources of ‘can’ and ‘to know’ are closely related.
Not to mention we still use the word 'canny' to describe somebody clever/intelligent in a practical way
Huh, in French, savoir can also mean can (Je sais nager). Thanks for the info!
"Känna" in Swedish also means "to feel" (both emotionally and physically), AND to know ("hon känner den här skogen väl", "she knows this forest well" - though it sounds just slightly old and formal to me, a native Swedish speaker born early 80:s. Adding a "till" after "känner" in the S sentence here would tip the meaning slightly to "...knows ABOUT" [the existence of the forest] but could still refer to her knowledge of the area).
I seem to remember the German "Kennen" could be used in all these senses, too - could anyone confirm?
BobKorv, I don't think I've heard ‘kennen’ being used that way and Duden doesn't mention that sense either.
Indeed, in Scots and lowland Scottish English “ken” is rather common, usually used as an interrogative particle (“Ken that lass?” / “John's back, ken?”)
Also, not as if anyone is interested in my language, but in Swedish we distinguish between the two of them also: Känna (till) = know (about) /kennen Veta (att) = know (that) /wissen
Yes, it's used also in Italian with 'sapere' e 'conoscere'. Pretty different meanings
Spanish and German, I've found, have some similarities. I don't know if it's the same in all languages except English, but "ihr" and "vosotros" mean the same thing, too
yeah, there are some similarities. another one is the gender in nouns, though it is sometimes the opposite gender (die Sonne = el sol / der Vogel = el pájaro). in Mexico we use "ustedes" instead of "vosotros", and also the conjugation of verbs changes: "ustedes pueden" / "vosotros podéis"
So the correct way of saying "I know what you're saying", for example, is "ich kenne was du sagst" instead of "ich wisse was du sagst"?
What is the nuance between "Ich kenne den Vogel nicht" and "Ich kenne nicht den Vogel"?
"Ich kenne den Vogel nicht", means "I don't know the bird". If you say "ich kenne nicht den Vogel", you basically say the same thing, but what the average german would think is that you don't know the bird, but you know something else, maybe: "... sondern das Pferd".
This example is tricky and not really clear. A better example would be: "Ich esse die Suppe nicht" That means: "I don't eat the soup". For example, maybe because it's still too hot. Or you don't like it.
When you say: "Ich esse nicht die Suppe", Your also practically don't eat the soup, but you probably eat something else. You can here the difference in the tone of a german person.
If you want to say it more correctly though, you should say: "ich esse nicht eine Suppe... sondern einen Fisch".
That might be a response to a question - "do you eat soup?"'when you're eating a fish.
Sorry, it's a bit late: You can hear* it in the tone, And of course you drink soup and not eat it. But you got the point ;)
Hopefully you can read this and answer it for me, if not, someone else please. In the context of "I don't eat the soup, but I eat something else." Could you still say, "Ich esse die Suppe nicht... sondern einen Fisch." ?? Or is "nicht" restricted to the fashions you have described?
In that example, you would say Ich esse nicht die Suppe, sondern einen Fisch. This corresponds quite well to John33n's example, I thought. If you said Ich esse die Suppe nicht, sondern... I would expect a totally different action, like ...gehe direkt ins Bett because you've really negated the verb (you don't eat) rather than the noun (not the soup).
Don't be silly. Of course you eat soup. Just because it is a liquid doesn't mean it isn't food. Maybe you do drink it, but you're also eating it too. You probably don't chew it, or masticate it. Unless it is a hearty, chunky soup. Which some people might call more akin to a stew. Hmm... maybe I'm just hungry.
If you kind of translate it literally into English (I know the bird... Not) does it apply to every word that has 'not' in the sentence? (Ich trinke milch nicht; I am drinking milk... Not)
Does anyone get what I am saying?
It kind of sounds like a joke. I know the answer... Not. How can you tell the difference if someone has a monotone voice?
The translation says: "I do not know that bird". Shouldn't it be "I do not know the bird"?
I was wondering that as well... Is den a valid translation for both the and that?
I do not know "the" bird implies familiarity, or a title. I do not know "that" bird implies now familiarity. You are familiar with our planets moon, which is "the" moon, not "that" moon. Same could be said when talking about your family car: "everyone get to the car" instead of "everyone get to 'that' car"
Same doubt here. This/that ate demonstrative pronouns, but I thought "den" was an article.
Der/Die/Das are translated as the and as that. In practice I think that the "der/die/das/den/dem/des" would be stressed more to mean "that"
Why the translation for "den" can now be either "the" and "that"? I have just been told that "den" is the accusative form for "der" in the sentence "Wir waschen den Apfel" and it could only accept the translation "the", not "that". I thought it was the case again, can anybody explain me that? Bitte!
Historically, the German definite articles started out as ‘that’ pronouns, and they still look the same. (German is no exception by the way.) There are still differences though. In pronunciation, ‘the book’ = ‘das Búch’ (I marked the stress) but ‘that book’ = ‘dás Búch’. And the pronouns can be used by themselves: ‘Was ist das?’
How do I know that the "nicht" goes with the "kenne" and not "Vogel." The first time I did this problem I thought it was I know that is not a bird. Which is wrong but what I dont know is why. Please help.
I think I'll try to explain this by example.
1) Ich kenne den Vogel nicht. = I don't know the bird. (But see my comment above.)
2) Ich weiß dass es kein Vogel ist. = I know it isn't a bird. (In older texts you'll find ‘daß’ instead of ‘dass’ but that's wrong now.)
3) Ich kenne keinen Vogel. = I know no bird(s).
Sentence 1 is the one Duo asked. ‘Nicht’ is a word which inverts the meaning of another word. For adjectives and nouns, it precedes the word and is often written together with it as one word.
The dictionary Duden discourages this for adjectives and writes ‘nicht staatlich’ (although ‘nichtstaatlich’ isn't wrong). ‘Staatlich’ means ‘belonging or referring to the state’ so ‘nicht staatlich’ means ‘not belonging or referring to the state’ = ‘private’ as the word is used in e.g. ‘private enterprise’.
Nouns are a bit trickier since you don't generally want a noun clause to refer to let's say everything but apples. Instead it becomes ‘not, but still related’. For example, ‘Nichtdeutscher’ means ‘someone who is not a German’ and ‘Nichtlieferung’ (from ‘Lieferung’ = ‘delivery’, ‘shipment’) means ‘no delivery (when it should have taken place or was expected to take place)’.
And now verbs. Let's start with subordinate clauses. ‘... dass ich den Vogel nicht kenne.’ = ‘... that I don't know the bird.’ Note that again it precedes the word it modifies. And because verbs are frequently the root of their clause, inverting them logically has the effect of inverting the whole clause, in this case everything after ‘dass’ = ‘that’. However, now comes the tricky bit. When the verb moves leftward, ‘nicht’ stays behind! ‘Ich kenne den Vogel nicht.’ Note that because ‘nicht’ modifies the root word of the entire sentence, it means the opposite of ‘Ich kenne den Vogel.’ By way of a final example, here's a question: ‘Kennst du den Vogel nicht?’
Sentence 2 is the one you were shooting for. This illustrates the difference between ‘kennen’ and ‘wissen’.
‘Kennen’ means ‘to have knowledge of’ or ‘to be acquainted with’. Examples (look up the words to figure out what they mean): ‘Ich kenne das Ende der Geschichte.’ ‘Ich kenne Helga.’ ‘Kennst Du die Berge Tirols?’ ‘Kennst du die Unterschiede zwischen Spinnen und Insekten?’
‘Wissen’ means ‘to know a fact’. Examples: ‘Ich weiß, wo dein Haus wohnt.’ (Look this one up, I deliberately started with an odd one.) ‘Ich weiß wie man Vektoren addiert.’ ‘Weißt du schon Bescheid?’ ‘Wie weißt du das?’ ‘Sie weiß was sie will.’
As you see, these two verbs have very different meanings and it's quite odd that English chooses to use one verb for both meanings.
Sentence 3, as an afterthought, shows you what to say if you, rather than not knowing a particular bird but leaving the possibility that you know others open, want to state once and for all that, no, you don't know any birds. ‘Kein’ = ‘no’ in the sense of ‘not one’, ‘nothing of’. Examples: ‘Ich habe kein Geld.’ ‘Das sind keine guten Aussichten.’ (This is somewhat less strong and maybe more polite than: ‘Das sind schlechte Aussichten.’ You cannot modify ‘gut’ with ‘nicht’ when you use it attributively, except in exceptional circumstances. Don't write this: ‘Das sind nicht gute Aussichten.’ But this is fine as it's a predicate: ‘Die Aussichten sind nicht gut.’) ‘Das weiß ja keiner.’ ‘Wir haben keine Bananen heute.’
So you see it's quite simple. (That's why it took a page of text to explain of course.)
Hi G.P., you're statement "As you see, these two verbs have very different meanings and it's quite odd that English chooses to use one verb for both meanings." is not quite true. I am relatively new to German but we have a number of verbs for knowledge in English and I think that there is a clear relationship of Kennen and Wissen to the English verbs to 'Know' and to 'Understand' ......
example: I know Brad Pitt example: I understand that boats are propelled by propellers.
Although confusingly you could also say 'I KNOW that boats are propelled by propellers'
I think there is a vast difference between ‘wissen’ (to know a fact) and ‘verstehen’ / ‘begreifen’ (to understand; ‘begreifen’ implies a deeper level of understanding than ‘verstehen’).
Ich weiß dass Schiffe von Propeller angetrieben werden.
I know that ships are propelled by propellers (but maybe not what a propeller actually physically does).
Ich verstehe dass Schiffe von Propeller angetrieben werden.
I understand that ships are propelled by propellers (maybe because I know how propellers work and I've seen that ships have propellers).
Ich begreife dass Schiffe von Propeller angetrieben werden.
I understand that ships are propelled by propellers (because I know how propellers work, what the advantages are in comparison to rowing, and so on).
Sometimes you can use the latter two interchangeably but there is always a big difference with the first. Let's have some more examples:
Ich weiß dass der Lehrer unglücklich ist.
I know that the teacher is unhappy (because he has a kind of shell-shocked look on his face and he sobs a lot).
Ich verstehe dass der Lehrer unglücklich ist.
I understand that the teacher is unhappy (because if I were standing in his shoes I would be unhappy too).
Das Menschen so fies sein können, kann ich wirklich nicht begreifen.
That people can be so mean, is impossible for me to comprehend.
Ich wusste nicht mal wie ich heiße.
I didn't even know what my name was supposed to be.
Das geht ganz einfach nicht in meinen Kopf, das kann ich einfach nicht begreifen, nein.
You can do the last one yourself.
I just said: blabla blaa bla, bla bla blaa. And it passed. I guess the pronounciation is more for your own practice...
For me it feels like you really have to make an effort, but it's inconsistent - sometimes I think I nailed it and I get nothing, sometimes I think I messed up and it gives it to me.
The odd thing is not that ‘nicht’ is at the end of the sentence, but that the verb isn't. See my reply to Starfire for some more information on word order involving ‘nicht’. It's a bit wordy though.
Why is the word character provided but not accepted. I picked the logical answer, "I don't know that character" but they wanted, "I don't know that bird". Why is character wrong?
I think ‘character’ is a good translation. Another option might be ‘weirdo’ or ‘bumbler’, depending on why he's called ‘Vogel’ of course.
lol, thanks. They should have put this in the idiom section. In English I read this as though I don't personally know that actual bird. It seems like they use this as a slang.
This is part of the German course, so they shouldn't be trying to teach any kind of English, they should be teaching us German.
Not sure if sarcasm or that's what you really think. If it's the latter, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. As any language enthusiast would say, learning a new language is pretty much learning a new tongue as well as brushing up your own. Someone once said that you never really knew your native tongue until you've learned another, and I agree.
If you have difficulties with the language you're learning from (i.e., English), then wouldn't it be more difficult to understand a new one?
‘Never before the verb it is modifying.’
That isn't quite true. See my lengthy and rather dull comment above.
Not really. Kennen is a verb to denote familiarity so normally you would have an object. If someone asked you if you know a person in English you wouldn't say "No, I don't know." You would say something like "No, I don't know him/her." If you want to say you don't know something, you would say "Ich weiß es nicht" where the verb is wissen.
I'm confused. "ich kenne den vogel nicht" = "i know that bird not". That doesn't sound right. Help!
It may not sound right when you translate the German words to English word-by-word, but German word order is just different from English. At first the German sentence may sound weird but that'll pass. Besides, the English version is pretty weird too: ‘I don't know the/that bird.’ What's that ‘do’ doing there!?
I do know the bird possibly means that I am in a state of knowing of the bird, and so negating the verb do, results in not being in that state of knowledge.
Look, I know how English grammar works with respect to the use of ‘do’, but the fact of the matter is that it's a silly meaningless word that serves no semantic purpose. Given how the rest of English grammar works (not and other negatives tend to modify whatever comes after it, and things that modify the action can be, and often are, put directly in front of the inflected verb) you'd expect something like *‘I not know the bird’.
Furthermore, contrary to what you just said, ‘I don't know the bird’ is in modern English not actually the negative of ‘I do know the bird’. That would be ‘I really don't know the bird’ or ‘I do not know the bird’ or something similar.
Think of it this way for the time being. A lot of declarative statements in German are negated by putting "nicht" at the end.
"I know that bird" would be the affirmative.
"I know that bird not" would be the negative.
This is a generally safe assumption with simple statements that are declarations of fact.
I asked the same. Though I don't think they have to be hot to call them a bird in third Person.
e.g. Have you seen this woman (Shows Picture)? (answer) Yeah that bird walked past here about an hour ago.
It is quite colloquial and only used in certain regions of england, in this context, but doesnt have to mean shes "hot".
Though if you say she "is a bird"/"is a right bird", that is 100% meaning that you think they are attractive.
Related comment: search for ‘Ich weiß dass Schiffe von Propeller angetrieben werden.’
kennen = connaître = to know someone / some object &c., to be acquainted with
können = pouvoir / savoir (for a skill) = to be able to, to have the ability, to know how to (for a skill), to be capable of, to be possible
wissen = savoir = to know a fact, to know for sure, to be aware of
verstehen = entendre, comprendre = to understand, to comprehend
(sich verstehen = s'entendre = to get along)
begreifen = entendre, comprendre, saisir = to understand, to comprehend, to realise, to grasp
‘Begreifen’ implies a deeper level of understanding than ‘verstehen’; see my other comment for some example sentences.
But here it isn't translate as "the" but as "that". I didn't know "den" is also used as its accusative form. Is it correct?
Den is the accusitive form of der ,die and das remain the same in the accusitive form, so yes that is correct .
Oh, no, only "der" changes in the accusative but not "die" and not "das": Ich kenne die Frau. Ich kenne das Kind. Ich kenne den Mann.
What's wrong with "I know thats not a bird."
all words get translated properly and the sentence has meaning and structure too
Sorry, but the sentence doesn't mean that what is being show isn't a bird. It means that the speaker doesn't know which bird it is. A closer translation (for more accurate meaning) would be 'I am not familiar with the bird'. Let's assume you spent 10 hours swotting a book like 'Songbirds of Northern Europe' and your tutor came in and showed you a picture of a bird, that wasn't in that book. Then such a phrase would be used.
My guess is that the position of nicht emphasizes what is not known, rather than the verb.
I always have trouble forming long sentences in German. This Syntax does not help me.
And the bird said, "Lo! For before the rooster crows thou shalt deny me three times"....and he was right. hangs head
Maybe my comment above will help.
Search for: ‘... dass ich den Vogel nicht kenne.’
Kevin-"Johnny, do you know this bird?" Johnny- "No, I do not know that bird."
What about: 'Ich kenne das Vogel nicht', instead of 'Ich kenne den Vogel nicht'?
It isn't. Although ‘nicht’ normally precedes the word it modifies, in this case it doesn't. I've tried to explain it in another comment. Search for ‘dass ich den Vogel nicht kenne’ on this discussion page.
Serious these voice ones are so annoying you can barely hear the word correctly Vogel sounded like frugal ist sounds like liest
It doesn't accept "I know not the bird"! It haveth insulted me and I am not best pleased with its insolence >:-(
When I had to type this out on a previous thing I typed "I do not know that bird" & it said I was wrong "that" needed to be "the"
Why is it "I do not know the bird" and not "I know the bird not" both are grammatically correct in English, and I realize that sentence structure is different in Deutsche but I'm confused :/
I'm 100% sure that using the word "den" is only for somethig specific. "I do not know THAT bird" is the correct sentence here instead of the sentence "I do not know the bird" as suggested by Duolingo
Shouldn't ''nicht'' come right after the verb? "Ich kenne nicht den Vogel"????
It's look like the ''Nordest'' acess of Brazil.. In brazilian Portuguese you can say: "Eu não conheço o pássaro". But people from Nordosten say like : "Eu conheço o pássaro não". Very similar ...
Can anybody explain me how to use the negative form? I don't understand why sometimes "nicht" comes in last place in the sentences and others don't...
"I do not know of the bird." How would that be conveyed in German (a question I never thought I'd ask)?
Curious. Can the sentence be re-worded like this: "Ich kenne nicht den Vögel"?
I would prefer that the literal translation be accepted: "I know the bird not." This would help with learning sentence structure.
They never told us anything about words at the end of a sentence going in the middle. I know that happens but they should have told us rather than just assumed we'd know
What is the difference between: "Ich kenne den Vogel nicht" and: "Ich weiß nicht, was das für ein Vogel ist?"
Is there a difference between "to know someone" and "to know how to do something" in German?
After reading the comments, I still didn't understand why the sentence wasn't: Ich kenne nicht den Vogel. I looked at various websites outside of Duolingo and finally found an explanation that I could understand. The explanation was: "nicht" follows a pronoun or an object which can be substituted by a pronoun Any comments on if this is correct? Website: deutschseite.de/grammatik/negation/negation
Question: Can 'Vogel' also mean a strange person? In Dutch, for a strange person we sometimes use the term ''Vreemde vogel'' (strange bird) when talking about a strange individual. I was wondering if there is a similar term in German.
"I know not the bird" may not sound common but doesn't wrong to me. Perhaps too much focus is on crossover wordage than similar wording?
Can this be used in german to mean:
"I do not know the worman/girl"
As is the case with British English?
It would be rather impolite: https://de.pons.com/%C3%BCbersetzung?q=vogel&l=deen&in=&lf=de
like "I don't know that bloke". I rarely heard it referred to a woman. Usually it refers to males.
In case if anyone has confusion, it is a declarative sentence that is why nicht is at the end.
so basically I know the bird-I don't "know the bird" Ich kenne den Vogel-ich "kenne den Vogel" nicht